Lawrence University-Conservatory and Temple University....I need advice please!!!!!!!

College Majors Music Major
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<p>Hi all, </p>

<p>I am currently in the process of applying as a transfer student to both of these schools for next fall. I am a music ed major(voice) considering auditioning for a dual degree in ed and performance. Does anyone know if there are higher standards for transfer students etc.? Also, how difficult is it to get into these schools? I am transferring from the Crane School of Music...I've done pretty well in my classes this past semester and I'm doing well vocally but I'm wondering if these schools are comparable to oberlin or other top notch schools b/c I'm looking for a small, intense, environment, but not one that is insane to get into. Any additional info on these schools would be great. I'm trying to learn as much as I can about them so I don't make the same mistake I did for Crane and wind up unhappy with my school choice...</p>

<p>Also, if anyone knows of any other schools similar to these I would appreciate hearing about them. Thanks so much everyone!</p>

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<p>Good luck to you in your transfer auditions. I don't know the specifics of Temple or Lawrence, but usually schools hold performance majors to a higher audition "standard" than music education majors. This is because the focus of the performance degree is on performing and in music education, there is actually are periods of time (e.g. student teaching term) where the student doesn't perform in a school ensemble at all. But perhaps others can comment. I have heard that both Lawrence and Temple have decent music programs. But you do know that they are radically different in terms of location. Temple is smack in the middle of the city, and Lawrence is not. This might be a consideration....think about WHY you don't like Crane (is it the remoteness of the location?).</p>

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<p>Thank you Thumper. I am well aware of the differences between both schools and I am fine with either environment. I have many reasons for leaving Crane: geography, level of academics in potsdam, diversity, program-just a little, etc. I've thought this over quite a lot. I was very indecisive last semester but I know for sure now that I want to transfer.</p>

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<p>Thumper already pointed out that Lawrence and Temple are very different schools – one small the other large, one suburban the other urban, one private the other a state school, etc. While I don’t know anything about Temple’s music program, my D#1 is a second year law student there and D#3 is a freshman vocal performance major at Lawrence. D#1 had friends that lived in graduate housing last year and were not happy; the campus is not in a good neighborhood and they felt isolated which meant jumping on the septa for any entertainment (however, I suspect that a graduate student’s needs and expectations may be different than an underclassman’s). I do not know how difficult it is to get into the music ed program, but D#3 is very happy at Lawrence; she loves her studio, both the musical and academic environment (but not the weather this winter!), and the faculty. She is a 5 yr. double degree student. In fact she is discussing with her academic advisor the possibility of creating her own major which she is very excited about. Good luck!</p>

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<p>My D applied to Temple 2 years ago as an instrumental performance major, and my niece is in the honors program at Temple (not a music major, though she sang in their choir one year). If level of academics is important to you, you may want to inquire whether music majors can participate in their honors program. It seemed to us 2 years ago that it would not have been possible to be a music major in the honors program, but they may have been trying to make this possible. Just something for you to investigate if you are looking for better academics.</p>

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<p>Can't address the transfer issue but D is a double major in vocal performance and music ed at Lawrence and is very happy with the program. I would say the environment at Lawrence is focused and rigorous but not "intense" per se. The environment is a bit less competitive among music students at least in terms of the flavor we got when we visited Oberlin. Faculty are very accessible and supportive albeit demanding. The academic expectations are much higher at Lawrence in terms of balance and requirements outside of music than Oberlin, for example. Unless you are a double-degree student at Oberlin, the academic requirements outside of music are minimal at least for vocal performance majors. The conservatory demands at Lawrence are significant but not overwhelming in our experience. There is not much down time during the week and ensemble work, practicing, master classes and performance attendance and competition preparation are certainly challenging but seem to be manageable for most of the music students.</p>

<p>Also, be aware that practicum for music ed starts very early at Lawrence with 70 hours required BEFORE student teaching. D started her practicum in the school this year (sophomore). </p>

<p>If you have more specific questions, I'm sure D would be happy to communicate with you directly.</p>

<p>Best of luck to you.</p>

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<p>rcmama, I just want a better liberal arts education than the one I'm getting here. Since I'm a music major, I know my focus will be on music, but I would still like to be getting a decent education elsewhere, not necessarily needing to be at an honors level. </p>

<p>musicmomic, I would love to get in touch with your daughter. Could you send me her email in a pm? </p>

<p>Thanks so much for the info guys!</p>

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<p>Baritonevoce: We have talked before in regards to your reasons for wanting to leave Crane. For whatever it might be worth, last week at Fredonia auds. my daughter and I met a girl (sophomore) who was a transfer from Crane last fall. Similar situation, music ed/voice, didn't like Crane, did not like her teacher. She loves Fredonia and is happy with her decision.</p>

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<p>I know a very good tenor who is working at major American opera houses. He went to Temple and says, "It was a waste of time and money". He told me to not go there or even consider it.</p>

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<p>cvonhaps,</p>

<p>could you please tell me why he said it was a waste of time and money? Also, when did he go and who did he study with? I have heard very positive reviews regarding the new baritone teacher who just arrived about two years ago...</p>

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<p>I've heard nothing but bad things about Temple from people of SEVERAL majors (including music ed, composition, voice, etc)</p>

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<p>Could you elaborate on that please?</p>

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<p>Baritonevoce
Can you elaborate why you were unhappy at Crane</p>

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<p>Clarinetmom,</p>

<p>I am not fond of the geography/climate, the level of the liberal arts college (seems closer to a community college than an actual college), both the ed and performance programs, and the attitude of the students. I feel that the ed program is running on its reputation and is not as strong as it used to/could be. In my search for other schools, I found other programs that seemed better rounded and more thorough in their preparations for teaching in schools and performing. The choirs are not very good, with the exception of the Men's Ensemble and Crane Chorus, though the director of those is leaving for Kansas State next fall so I'm assuming they are going to fall back into their previous state...</p>

<p>The performance program isn't great either...no language requirement and Potsdam only offers french out of the main singing language: french, italian, german, and russian. For a performance major, I personally don't believe diction classes are enough, especially if you are wishing to continue your performance studies in grad school. Also, there are too many performance majors currently and as a result, they are not getting the performance opportunities that were promised. I would have to say the voice faculty is well rounded, especially with the addition of the new baritone (David Pittman-Jenning) who actually is a performing artist who maintained an opera career in Europe.</p>

<p>Regarding the liberal arts college, in my humble opinion, it seems that a majority of students there are there for partying and do not care much about earning a college degree. There are a surprising number of students who are super seniors, students who did not complete their required major coursework on time or through passing grades and have to stay an extra year, sometimes even two. I am not referring to double majors. At potsdam, this does not appear to be uncommon. I took some APs and honors classes in high school and I was challenged and learned more back then than I am now...and I am by no means anywhere near the honor caliber of the students that many of the parents on this board are proud to claim as their own. As one of my English professors told me for a sophomore English class, "I expect you to be able to write in complete sentences at this point but if not, that's ok, we'll work on that", and she has proceeded to work on exactly that. The expectations were higher than this in my high school english classes. </p>

<p>The attitude of the students is lacking in seriousness that I would expect to find at a music school, especially one that is sometimes/often inaccurately regarded as a conservatory. The level of some of the performance majors is shocking frankly and due to the low admission standards, many students are accepted who do not take their art seriously...finally, this point/dislike is a personal turnoff and may not be considered uncommon, but I was shocked at the number of voice students who get wasted and THROW UP every weekend. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the acid that comes up when you throw up is incredibly harmful to your vocal chords and will cut short a performance career if it continues. It personally does not make any sense to me... </p>

<p>The campus is highly undiverse as well as a majority of the crane students hail from Long Island. </p>

<p>I wasn't sure if you were asking because of a personal interest in Crane or whether it was because you were hoping to gain a better insight into answering my question but feel free to pm me or such if you want to know anything else about the school. I don't hate it completely, and I believe it works for some students and isn't a terrible school but definitely not for me. Hope it helped.</p>

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<p>Thanks Baritonevoce.</p>

<p>I am from LongIsland and as you know many music majors go to Crane. I wanted to get as much info as possible before "A" looks at colleges. She will definitely perfer a stronger acedemic setting.</p>

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<p>This particular singer studied with a teacher there who I don’t wish to name. I asked him, “I’m considering Curtis. What was your experience there?” He pretty much told me that he has happy enough at the school campus wise – but that he had an extremely difficult time getting into a quality graduate program. He ended up at a great school but realized quickly that in terms of technique he was very far behind. He even felt that it had hampered him at the beginning of his career.</p>

<p>It’s been a challenge fixing the problems that were not addressed from the beginning at Curtis…and so he feels his time there was a waste. He is a great singer now, every time I hear him he is better. Naturally I didn’t consider it after that review.</p>

<p>I know nothing about “the new baritone teacher”.</p>

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<p>Friends of ours worked at Lawrence (in administration) for several years and felt it was a wonderful academic environment, smart and nurturing.</p>

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<p>Cvonhaps,</p>

<p>I'm assuming you meant Temple in this sentence? "'I’m considering Curtis. What was your experience there?'” </p>

<p>If so, then thanks for the info. I have heard VERY mixed reviews about temple and some of the teachers there, some reviews being similar to what you have said. Anyway, thanks. Sorry for my lack of clarity, the "new baritone" is William Stone. </p>

<p>Mom55,</p>

<p>I've heard great things about lawrence and it really looks like a wonderful school but due to the high costs and cold temperment I have decided to take it off my list. Thanks for your info though!</p>