<p>Yeah, in general, if someone says “I coerced someone into sex,” I believe them.</p>
<p>In legal terms, it’s a statement against self-interest. Those are pretty reliable.</p>
<p>Not if the comments are anonymous. In that case, they may be machismo. </p>
<p>So……. the women are not reliable when they report it and the men are not reliable when they admit it? Really Bay I thought the “irrelevant” comment in #277 was pretty insensitive but this just make no sense.</p>
<p>^I read Foubert’s research article that Cardinal Fang posted. I’d be interested to know what questions they asked on the survey and how they defined their terms.</p>
<p>HarvestMoon,
What are the numbers? It’s a simple question. What are the numbers?</p>
<p>A college freshman at one school’s opinion about whether he has been coercive is irrelevant to what the numbers (facts) are. </p>
<h1>281</h1>
<p>Bay
Today at 6:55 pm
Not if the comments are anonymous. In that case, they may be machismo. </p>
<p>What!?!? How does forcing unwilling females equate to sexy studliness? </p>
<p>I have the numbers I need Bay, if you need more to convince yourself there is a problem for our daughters then do some research. Everyone has different thresholds for risk. But somehow I get the distinct impression that your mind is already made up on where the problem lies.</p>
<p>Do rape statistics exist or not? Do we know how many rapes have been reported on college campuses? I assumed that those numbers exist. Am I wrong? If they exist, how many took place in fraternity houses? How many were perpetrated by fraternity men? They are simple questions. Where are the answers? I looked and did not find them. This is the second thread about the seriousness of fraternity rape in which no one can provide the numbers. Does anyone else think that is weird?</p>
<p>If the fraternity men answering the survey have such a positive view of sexual coercion that they would claim that they used it when they hadn’t, that’s pretty disturbing too. I don’t find this theory convincing, but assuming that it is true, then the fraternity men still imbibed a lot of poison that the independents didn’t.</p>
<p>My father and my boyfriend were/are fraternity members; in fact, as I shared earlier this year, I just got pinned. But I do think the preliminary data (in addition to a lot of anecdote and my own experience) suggest that fraternities increase the risk of picking up misogynistic beliefs and behaviors in college.</p>
<p>“Does anyone else think that is weird?” Bay, I don’t consider it weird, given the abysmal treatment of victims who report rape. I do think it’s weird that you won’t even believe a coercer when he self-reports it. I do think your strident tone is weird. I have been wondering for a while what your angle is. I’m too dumb to figure it out; it will probably remain a mystery to me. </p>
<p>^Maybe, or maybe fraternity men are more honest about their sexual behavior than non-fraternity men. How is that possibility controlled for?</p>
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<p>It’s a fascinating article.</p>
<p>Here’s one of the questionnaires used during this study, the [Illinois</a> Rape Myth Acceptance Short Form](<a href=“http://tigger.uic.edu/~schewepa/web-content/newpages/ShortForm.html]Illinois”>http://tigger.uic.edu/~schewepa/web-content/newpages/ShortForm.html). </p>
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<p>Note that the fraternity members were no different in their reports about their sexual behavior and attitudes than other students before they joined their fraternities. It was only after they became frat members that their answers became so rapey. So it’s your theory that lots of guys coerce women into sex, but only the frat guys admit it in anonymous surveys. The frat, in this telling, doesn’t teach rapey attitudes. It just teaches guys to be honest about being rapey. Yeah. Sure.</p>
<p>I don’t have a theory and don’t want one. I just want the numbers, not opinions of freshmen at one college. I don’t think I’m going to get them. </p>
<p>@Bay"or maybe fraternity men are more honest" </p>
<p>Yes, it is really bravery. lol hahahahahahaha</p>
<p>@Bay “I just want the numbers”</p>
<p>As you know, many colleges have been working to keep rapes quiet for years. There is no comprehensive data made available because they have avoided keeping accurate records and either not reported or underreported for years. That is part of this federal investigation.</p>
<p>^That is what I suspected, that no real evidence of the rate of campus rape occurring at fraternities or by fraternity men exists. </p>
<p>Actually colleges do have a legal obligation to disclose crime statistics and have to file their Annual Security Report by October 1 of every year under the Clery Act. So you can get the # of “forced sexual offenses” reported for 2013 for each college by googling their 2014 Clery Act Report. The stats are usually at the end of the report. I have read them for most of the colleges to which my D is applying. </p>
<p>The schools have no obligation to report whether the sexual offenses reported were frat related. </p>
<p>To those of us with our eyes open, it is obvious that the set of really bad fraternity chapters is not a null set. Indeed, it is obvious that it is a pretty big set. Just how big it is is debatable, and there are certainly some fraternity chapters that aren’t bad at all.</p>
<p>To me, it’s pretty clear that some, and probably many, fraternities concentrate and reinforce certain kinds of behavior and attitudes. Those who did not experience this in their own college experiences, or who do not observe it at their kids’ colleges, are fortunate. Maybe they are even in the majority. But at certain college campuses, fraternities are repeatedly the locus of both collective and individual bad behavior.</p>
<p>@hunt Yes, there is a problem in aggregate, but it is definitely not all fraternities. I completely agree.</p>