<p>You’re allowed to have your own opinions, but I hope your realize that said opinion is incorrect.</p>
<p>Don’t you think gay people would know if they were making a choice or not? I don’t mean to attack you, I’m just interested in your justification of that. It also seems like kind of a sucky choice to make, considering all the discrimination and disapproval it gets from others. Do you also feel that heterosexuality is also a choice? Please don’t think I’m attacking you, I just am interested in what you think about that, since I don’t know anyone who has as extreme views as you seem to.</p>
<p>Oh trust me, my view isn’t that extreme. Mainly I think that homosexual views are instilled into children at an early age and then the onus is on the person to make the <em>choice</em> to be heterosexual. I believe it’s a choice in the same way some children are really shy because of their upbringing but they can e.g. make the <em>choice</em> to branch out. Not that radical ex-gay therapy is required but I think gays should realize that they CAN change (and SHOULD, in fact - homosexuality is a major contributor to the horrible demographic crisis in Russia - AIDS, extramarital sex, etc)
Notice I’ve underlined my introductions of my opinions so I don’t get unjustly attacked again.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yeah… that’s kinda what all of us figured you anti-gays were afraid of. “OMG if they can gay marry, then everybody’s gonna suddenly wanna be gay!”</p>
<p>Stop, now. Think about what it is you’re saying. Consider how that sounds, think it through. Okay, you thought it through now? Gooooood just because gays can marry doesn’t mean more people are going to be gay. Even if it WAS a choice, why the hell would they just choose it now that they can be married? They’d still be persecuted by fine folks like yourself anti. But I have good news, guess what? Science says that it isn’t a choice, and it has wide-ranging studies to back it up! Isn’t that marvelous? Now am I going to listen to antipacifist’s one single opinion, or am I going to listen to the huge body of Psychologists across multiple fields who say that it isn’t a choice?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p><em>points up to the Psychologists</em> they do, they know, they’ve done research. I’ll provide it for you</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sweety, you aren’t being “unjustly attacked” because we’re confusing you stating your opinions for you stating “facts.” We all know full-well that you’re stating opinions. All we’re saying is that just because you preface it as an opinion, doesn’t mean it’s not offensive. If I went bandying around the opinion that Blacks were inferior to Whites, why that would make me racist and everyone here would have every right to call me on my comments and point out the facts disproving my opinion. Also, opinions can be changed you know, that’s why they’re opinions, beliefs are harder. It only makes sense to change your opinions when presented with evidence that invalidates them, instead of remaining intransient.</p>
<p>Oh, and even if you’re saying you reject “radical ex-gay therapy” you hold the belief that gays can and should change, that’s still ex-gay, that’s still bringing in those practices you claim to reject. Instead, how about you try the novel idea of accepting people as they are, huh?</p>
<p>@Al – If people only got married for sex, and then by extension procreation, wouldn’t that exclude infertile couples, couples past the age of menopause, and the aforementioned asexual example? That’s why that argument doesn’t work, you would have to advocate that any relationship that doesn’t produce children is nullified. Marriage was really about property anyway, way way back when, and it was merely a civil matter. After religion came along, they created ceremonies for the marriages and the babymaking aspect became part of a complex anthropological system to ensure the patrilineage and patriarchy. The fathers wanted sons to continue the family name, we still see it today. That’s pretty much where that came from. Before that, in ancient Greece, women were only seen as the means to accomplish having babies, “True Love” was between two men. Marriage has evolved quite a bit since those days, it’s more about Love now than about procreation, as it ought to be. Marriage in its most honest terms is just a declaration of two people who want to spend their lives together, binding their souls/lives to one another, it’s about Love… although it’s also been about money, property, etc. There is no one straight-cut answer.</p>
<p>“Homosexual values are instilled into children at an early age.” What ****ing planet are you from dude?</p>
<p>Itachirumon, what if I refuse to respond to you if you don’t agree to stop being so motherf—ing condescending? I can NOT respect you or take you seriously when you take that tone in a debate. </p>
<p>And thanks for giving me the definition of “opinion.” I KNOW what an opinion is and just for the record “sweety” I haven’t tried to convince YOU to change your opinion ONE god damn time. I never asked that you ACCEPT my beliefs, I realize that isn’t going to happen. </p>
<p>BUT IT IS UNNECESSARY AND DESPICABLE TO IMPLY THAT I AM IGNORANT OR UNEDUCATED FOR WHAT I BELIEVE AND FOR WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED, AND I WILL NO LONGER TOLERATE IT.</p>
<p>
Earth, wbu?</p>
<p>^You’re the one getting angry over people “unfairly attacking” you for your “opinions” on the issue. All we’ve done is present the information, the facts. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts, although it’s a little riddiculous to continue to hold an opinion when the things you’re basing it on have been falsified. That’s not very scientifically-minded</p>
<p>Itachi, please show me these studies. Not patronizing you, I really am curious now since apparently my entire belief system is irrevocably unscientific.</p>
<p>^Scientific American
June 16, 2008 |
Study Says Brains of Gay Men and Women Are Similar
Brain scans provide evidence that sexual orientation is biological
By Nikhil Swaminathan
[Study</a> Says Brains of Gay Men and Women Are Similar: Scientific American](<a href=“Study Says Brains of Gay Men and Women Are Similar - Scientific American”>Study Says Brains of Gay Men and Women Are Similar - Scientific American)</p>
<p>Here’s a document/primer from the APA themselves that should reference several of their studies (there’s an internal link to the primer from their webpage):
[Just</a> the Facts about Sexual Orientation & Youth: A Primer for Principals, Educators, & School Personnel](<a href=“http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/just-the-facts.aspx]Just”>Just the facts about sexual orientation and youth: A primer for school personnel)</p>
<p>Here’s the Wikipedia article on Homosexuality in Psychology:
[Homosexuality</a> and psychology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_psychology]Homosexuality”>Homosexuality and psychology - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>That’s just 3 things, I can easily find more.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>One is much more likely to be brought up in a homophobic family and environment than in a family that accepts homosexuality as nothing to be ashamed of. This is why you get so many people afraid to come out to their families. If what you say is true, then most homosexuals should instead be brought up in homosexual-friendly environments, which is simply false.</p>
<p>In any case, why would anyone actively choose to be part of such a minority group that is, for the most part, despised and marginalized? Why would anyone willingly choose to put hirself through the pain of possibly being disowned by hir family for being gay? There are gay kids out there praying every single day for five years to become “normal,” to suddenly find the appropriate gender attractive, and don’t you dare tell them it’s a choice, because it’s not; they know, because holy hell, have they tried. What you don’t seem to realize is that sexual desire is not rational, and it cannot be turned on and off like a spigot.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sex is a major contributor to AIDS and extramarital sex. Clearly everyone should just stop having it. I mean, now that people can have kids without ever having sex, what’s the point? Everyone should just cut it out of their lives.</p>
<p>
Not sure what you mean, but if you are talking about the majorly declining population, it’s probably more of a result of there being 4 abortions for every birth.</p>
<p>antipacifist, the AIDS problem in Russia has much, MUCH less to do with homosexuality (which is practically a non-issue in Russia) than it has to do with heavy intravenous drug use…in fact, I’d wager to say that since homosexuality is practically a crime in Russia, it really hasn’t had a significant impact on the spread of HIV/AIDS in the country and it certainly has nothing to do with the demographic crisis.</p>
<p>^But don’t you know buriedalie, all gay people are ultra-heavy druggos, we shoot up designer drugs into our eyeballs and share our needles with our twice-daily changing butt-buddies /sarcasm</p>
<p>…Unfortunately, sarcasm aside, the drug incidence in LGBTs is a lot higher than it should be, to deal with the emotional devistation of being hated by half the farking planet.</p>
<p>Okay well, I certainly have not read all of the posts on here, but I thought I would just post some personal thoughts anyway.</p>
<p>I was raised in a pretty conservative home and am now a sophomore in college. In the last five years my views have really changed as I started to gain my own voice and opinions on certain issues. My thoughts on homosexuality and gay marriage being a big change, and for the better (in my mind). I definitely was one of those people who thought it was a choice back in the day and as a Christian I wasn’t very supportive. Never in a homophobic way with insults and holding picket signs outside of a church. Nevertheless, I look back being super embarrassed about how closed minded I was. When you are younger you really seem to just go with everything your parents believe. Anyway, now I am still a Christian but I support gay rights and marriage. I guess those two aren’t supposed to go together (according to some) but whatever, I just consider myself a Christian that believes in equal rights. Love is a pretty cool thing, and the genders are irrelevant.</p>
<p>And as for the is it a choice thing, I don’t think it is, and I also don’t think I have a say in whether or not it is or isn’t since I have been in that situation before. I really cannot say what it is like to be a homosexual. (And yet so many heterosexuals seem to know everything)</p>
<p>Anyway, I am always surprised by what I read. Even at my most closed minded I would never have said some of the horrible things I hear. But I think this thread has been pretty good, and I don’t think a lot of rude things have been said (from what I saw). So far I just see people with different thoughts and viewpoints sharing their beliefs without bigotry or insults. </p>
<p>I think the respect thing does both ways. I might not agree with someone, but I still respect them when thoughts are shared appropriately.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>ehhh
ehhhh
ehhhhh</p>
<p>no, not buying it. Just because people don’t like you that is no excuse to take drugs and basically opens up the doors for any group with an opposing side to get f’d up.</p>
<p>@SkyLineEyes… OMG! You went to college and gained a more liberal viewpoint of the world. Well that’s a first.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Your right, homophobia should be taken lightly. Why should anyone care right?
…</p>
<p>I like how I can literately say being gay is not a choice, along with others. Use the example of how you did not just “choose” to be straight. Yet, people still think otherwise. Wonderful logic.</p>
<p>MLDWoody: I am glad you walked away with my point.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>pretty much</p>
<p>MLDWoody: Haha, I changed it to be nicer, but I chuckled either way.</p>