<p>All I am privy to are the FB pages of several HS friends who go to UCSD and attended the party, which from the many, many pictures that I looked at before the vast majority were pulled down and untagged, looked to be attended by primarily Greeks who were primarily (but not universally) Caucasian and Asian. UCSD is less than 2% black, I don’t think it is out of line to suggest that a party organized by members of a primarily white fraternity, which has been widely reported, (fraternities often pulling members from a particular socioeconomic class) was attended by partygoers similar to the organizers. That’s all.</p>
<p>And to be honest, for CC, I have seen very little “arguing” in this thread.</p>
<p>Here is what we know:</p>
<p>There was a Compton Cookout. Regardless of the organizers, the description of the dress code on the FB page was unequivocally offensive.
Students on a student-run television program (a program that is designed to be offensive) used the n-word in some context while speaking about the Compton Cookout backlash.
There was a noose found in the library. The student who accepted responsibility for the noose possibly claimed it was an accident in a letter to the UCSD newspaper, but she was suspended.
There was a KKK style hood found over a statue of Theodor Giesel.</p>
<p>All of these are just facts. At the very least, they paint a problematic picture. I agree, jumping to conclusions like “UCSD is a racist institution” is overzealous. But I do not think, at all, that it is out of line to be concerned.</p>
It’s also a straw man, because I don’t think a single person on this thread has made that assertion–which wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense anyway. An institution can only be “racist” if it is actually organized and managed on the basis of racist principles. It’s individual attitudes and actions that can be racist. (I don’t even like to say “individual people” because I think the sheep-and-goats assertion that some people are racists while others are not is part of the problem. We’re all racists to some degree or other; I think the tendency to be wary of those who are different is part of our cultural and perhaps even our biological heritage. The question is not “am I a racist?” but “how much of a racist am I, and more importantly, how do I feel about that and what am I doing about it?”)</p>
<p>I agree it probably is a straw man - but I have seen many posts on this thread about “why are we arguing about this” “why are people getting so up in arms” etc and I really haven’t observed any of that on this thread at all. And I’m not saying I necessarily agree with all the BSU’s demands or that they are handling this as well as they could be. But I think saying “We can’t pass judgment on this, we don’t have any information!” is absurd. We have plenty of information, we just don’t have ALL of it - and we never will, so I don’t think a general discussion of what the information we DO have says about the climate at UCSD is out of line.</p>
<p>“It’s also a straw man, because I don’t think a single person on this thread has made that assertion–which wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense anyway. An institution can only be “racist” if it is actually organized and managed on the basis of racist principles. It’s individual attitudes and actions that can be racist.”</p>
<p>The problem is that this is the core of the BSU and their allies’ arguments. All their demands are based on the idea that UCSD is somehow “institutionally racist” and if you listen to their rallies the speakers (many of them UCSD professors/staff) all make the same claim. Notably, these claims are almost all some version of “I feel that people don’t like me because of my skin color” while providing no actual evidence of that. So while it’s nice that people on CC aren’t making that argument, the ones on the ground invading the Chancellor’s Office and getting all the media attention/demands met are. </p>
<p>“But I think saying “We can’t pass judgment on this, we don’t have any information!” is absurd. We have plenty of information, we just don’t have ALL of it - and we never will, so I don’t think a general discussion of what the information we DO have says about the climate at UCSD is out of line.”</p>
<p>Sure, but it’s very, very important to wait for some kinds of information before passing judgment. For instance, the fact the noose-hanger turned herself in, offered a very strange explanation/apology, and admitted that she was a minority student are all extremely important to responding to that incident. The BSU and co. didn’t do that and instead yelled about how threatened they felt and conjured up images of (presumably white) racists running around campus unchecked while demanding the university be shut down.</p>
<p>You have “friends” who attended this party? Were they ignorant of the whole meaning of it? Or are they just racists? If any of my friends or acquaintances attended a party like that they would pretty quickly not be my friends anymore, without an iron clad explanation of their ignorance.</p>
<p>BTW, the fraternity denies organizing the party, if you could point me to an official press release, not some second hand facebook friend info, I would appreciate it.</p>
<p>Forgive me if I don’t take your reports of facebook information as Gospel. And yes,of course it was offensive no matter who organized it, but it seems to me from back in my day there would have mattered if it was organized by a Richard Pryor type provocatuer, some ignorant college students or a group of skinheads. Or in today’s world, whether it was organized by David Duke, Seth MacFarlane or Jay-Z. From what I have read, the fellow that dropped the horrible epithet on the radio station was a known shock jock type, hoping to latch onto the situation for some publicity. But even I don’t know that for sure.</p>
<p>We have very little information. We don’t know the identity or really the motivation of any of the parties, or for some things whether they were even part of the university. We have absolutely zero information about who put that hood on the statue. Is this the type of facutal information you folks base your decisions on at work or anywhere else? I certainy don’t, I have to get stuff correct for my job.</p>
<p>Also, note that the BSU’s demand statement said that the recent incidents had “marked UC San Diego as a racist University.” This is not quite the same as saying that UCSD is a racist university, because it contains the implied possibility that the mark is erroneous and misleading. In fact, the statement goes on to implicitly agree that it is erroneous and misleading: “and consequently damaged our student initiated yield efforts we worked on this entire academic year.” If the students really thought UCSD was a racist institution, why would they see it as a bad thing the “yield efforts” had been “damaged”? If the institution is inherently hostile toward your people, why do you want more of them to go there?</p>
<p>I think the point they’re trying to make is not that UCSD is a racist institution but that by failing to respond adequately to racism within its community it has effectively enabled and encouraged racism.</p>
<p>If the BSU has stated that UCSD is not a racist institution then I don’t really know what the point of all this is, or why we are debating this.</p>
<p>Is the point that there is racism in the country and that these events are possibly evidence of that? No dispute from me.</p>
<p>Is the point that these incidents are ignorant and insentive regardless of their motivation? Again no debate from me. But I think the same thing about much of “The Family Guy”, and I’m not out protesting, nor are very many other people. I haven’t read anything about this show on CC or anywhere else, because I think most people consider it over-the-top, satire.</p>
Most of the debate in the thread (in my view anyway) has been prompted by people who wanted to insist that the incidents were no big deal and that black students were overreacting to them, should learn to take a joke, stop focusing on the negative, et cetera.</p>
<p>^^^^
This stuff happened about a week or two ago. Have you taken a look at UCSD’s website lately? What would you have them do? Throw all these people in prison without any investigation?</p>
<p>And what about 2plus2’s friends who attended the party? Are they racists? What should happen to them?</p>
Read my statement above. We need to get over framing the question that way. </p>
<p>Also, understand that I wasn’t expressing an opinion one way or the other about whether the BSU is right that the UCSD administration has effectively encouraged racism through inaction or inadequate action. I don’t know enough to have any kind of opinion about that. All I was saying was that when I read their demands, that was what they appeared to be saying, and not “this horrible place is irredeemably racist to the core,” as some around here seem to be suggesting.</p>
<p>Ah, Bovertine. I forget that I am in the Parents Forum and must clarify that “Facebook Friend” is a very different beast than “friend”. Believe me, my views on the party were made clear, and I’m sure a couple defriended me because of it. Mostly just people I keep around to FB-stalk, as most people with FBs are wont to do. As to whether or not it matters who had the party - I think it matters that STUDENTS threw the party (and it has been widely reported that fraternity members organized the party, though the fraternities in question have denied any official responsibility) and that they felt comfortable enough with their campus environment that they believed throwing a party like this would be acceptable. Many colleges, in fact, stipulate in their codes of conduct that students are expected to ACT like students of X college, within or without of the campus (this may be just a private school things, but several private schools operate this way) – ie you are seen as a representative of your university even outside of university campus, and expected to behave as such. Whether this often comes to fruition in terms of discipline, I don’t know, but I don’t feel this is entirely wrong to brand the event a UCSD event even if it took place off campus - it was a party by and for students at UCSD.</p>
<p>I suspect you’re probably right with the student-run TV station - and whether the use of the term was to get some publicity or because the student really feels that way is pretty irrelevant, I think, because he USED the term, it DID have an effect, and for whatever reason, he felt like the consequences that would come from using that term were acceptable to him.</p>
<p>I’m sorry you don’t take my reports of FB information as gospel. I didn’t ask you to. You asked where I got my information, and I told you. You are, of course, welcome to believe what you choose =)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>While I am not in agreement with all of the BSU’s claim, this makes sense to me.</p>
<p>“Most of the debate in the thread (in my view anyway) has been prompted by people who wanted to insist that the incidents were no big deal and that black students were overreacting to them, should learn to take a joke, stop focusing on the negative, et cetera.”</p>
<p>There’s a huge difference from saying that the BSU overreacted and that they should “learn to take a joke.” Conflating these two sides is disingenuous. Basically, I’m saying they were right to be angry, but not right to rush to judgment and demand shutting down the university/securing special racially divisive goodies for them. I think that’s what most people who you’re lumping into that category are actually saying. </p>
<p>Here are some excerpts from what the BSU and co. are saying literally right now as they disrupt actual learning at the UCSD library:</p>
<p>“***** history, the real question is what is my ancestors’ story?”
“I am that 1.3%… you are trying to kill me softly but if my number one enemy cancer can’t kill me, what makes you think you can?”
“Throw your weight behind transforming 40 years of institutional racism” (professor) </p>
<p>These are the ravings of people out of touch with reality. </p>
<p>And if you want more examples of the BSU and allies claiming institutional racism, I encourage you to watch the “teach-in” and see for yourself: [Battle</a> Hate - Teach In - Academic Computing and Media Services](<a href=“Media Resources”>Media Resources)</p>
<p>Finally, please explain how UCSD has not adequately responded to this. I personally feel they’ve gone over the top to try to address the demands of the BSU (which they apparently just agreed to implement, at least most of them) and react to these incidents as soon as information/investigations allowed.</p>
<p>Ah 2plus2, I forgot you were a child. Perhaps if you were a parent, or an adult, you would realize that condescension isn’t a particularly effective way of arguing a point. Suffice to say, I’m well aware what a Facebook friend is, worked in high tech through the boom times, and have been on the internet and hacking (writing code in Java, C++, Perl, Javascript, vbScript need I go on) since before there was an Amazon.</p>
<p>I have no desire to engage with you in a condescension war Bovertine, so I’ll disengage.</p>
<p>Though…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Stones, glass houses, all that jazz. Calling a 23 year old a child is a bit condescending yourself, no?</p>
<p>In any case, to the thread at large - WRT the demands of the BSU, they seem at first glance militant. I don’t know how the UCSD administration should have reacted - I think some of the claims of the BSU that administration nonreaction has fostered a racially hostile climate relate more to their handling of past issues rather than this one. I think the UCSD administration is likely doing what they feel is best to address the situation at large, and I have seen no extraordinary failures on an administrative level, but clearly some students are unhappy.</p>
<p>It is amazing to me you can’t see the difference here. I ask for some actual official facts about an incident, you respond with anecdotal evidence from your FB page. I simply state that I don’t find that convincing. This is not a personal statement about you, it is directly and entirely germaine to the point I was trying to make.</p>
<p>You respond by implying that I’m some sort of geriatric luddite or sheltered hermit because I don’t know what a FB friend is.</p>
<p>At that point, yes, I plead guilty to meeting condescension with condescension. I meant this to be over the top. But I am also disengaging from you and this thread because we are getting absolutely nowhere at break-neck speed.</p>
<p>I certainly did not intend to imply that you were a luddite, only that you asked how my “friends” could behave this way, and I clarified for you that, as I said in the original post, they were Facebook friends, not friends. Apologies if offense was taken, it was certainly not intended.</p>