Another "what are the chances" thread

Colleges and Universities A-Z Vanderbilt University
1

<p>My daughter has fallen in love with Vanderbilt. It has now become her top choice, dream school. My research is leading to questions about her ability to be accepted. </p>

<p>Personal info: White female - upper middle class - married parents who are both college graduates</p>

<p>Classes taken:</p>

<p>AP English - 2 years
Honors English - 2 years
AP Calculus
AP Physics
AP Biology
AP Chemistry
AP Statistics
AP History
IB Spanish - 5 years</p>

<p>27 DE credits for classes taken through an area community college</p>

<p>She has taken the most strenous course load offered by her school.</p>

<p>Plans on studying Mechanical Engineering and Spanish so she plans on applying to college of Engineering and Arts and Sciences as her backup.</p>

<p>GPA: 3.8 (School calculates GPA using a weird formula and does not specify weighted/unweighted)</p>

<p>Class rank: 5/148 - top 3% - school does not recognize Valedictorian/Salutatorian but does recognize the top 10.</p>

<p>ACT: 27 composite
SAT: 560 CR 580 Math</p>

<p>ECs:
4 years of dance - Auditioned dance team - 12 -15 hours of practice weekly, year-round
Multiple dance workshops, camps, expos, etc. throughout each year
Will have 350 hours of volunteer service in various areas by the end of her Senior year
Beta club Secretary
National Honor Society
National Society of High School Scholars
Governor's School - Math - 2010
History Club
Spanish Club
Reading Roundtable
Youth Counselor
Campaign Manager 2011 American Heart Association Queen of Hearts campaign fundraiser
Drama Dept theatrical productions - 2009/2011
Color Guard - 2009
Fellowship of Christian Athletes
Yearbook staff - 2 years
DECA finalist - state level 2011</p>

<p>She is an excellent writer and the essays she is working on are top notch.</p>

<p>My concerns:</p>

<p>Her test scores - she honestly tests horribly. We have used tutors, every test manual available, etc. and she still becomes physically ill when taking the ACT or SAT tests. She is planning on taking both the ACT and SAT test once more. She has taken them twice already.</p>

<p>Her GPA - seems a little low when compared to the Vanderbilt student stats, but is excellent when compared to the other students at her school. </p>

<p>Does she stand a better chance applying ED? Or should she wait for RD?</p>

<p>Does she stand any chance at all?</p>

<p>Would an alumni interview help her chances?</p>

<p>Any opinions/ideas/suggestions are greatly appreciated. </p>

<p>Thanks in advance for your help.</p>

2

<p>ED will improve her chances significantly.</p>

<p>We all know those test scores are not pretty (particularly the SAT), but if those scores end up being the best she can get, do not send in that SAT score.</p>

<p>I do think she has a legitimate chance since she has a lot going for her outside of those tests, but try to raise that test score and apply ED. I have a hard time seeing a 27 ACT (without some amazing talent) getting accepted RD. Good luck</p>

3

<p>If she plans on ED1, she should have already taken the Oct. 1 SAT test. There is also an ED2 she can consider. I agree that the scores are low for Vandy so increasing them would be important. </p>

<p>My S2 is also in love with Vanderbilt and is also very concerned about his test scores and GPA. His brother (S1) is currently a junior there so for the past few yeas we have received emails from Vanderbilt reporting how competitive each entering class is. At this point, I feel its kind of a “reach” for everyone. </p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

4

<p>I think her GPA is ok considering her class rank, but the with those test scores, I think she’ll be a long shot even if she applies ED. To put it into perspective, I think this year’s entering class had an ACT middle 50% of 31-34, and a 27 is significantly lower than 31. I think if she can score 30 or higher, she may have a reasonable shot if she goes ED, but as someone already mentioned, she already missed the last testing opportunity for EDI, so it’ll probably be best to go for EDII.</p>

5

<p>You clearly have a terrific daughter. I am impressed that she is taking such a clearly difficult caseload at school…all the hardest APs, making good grades despite the discrepancy with her standardized exams. You can rest assured that the adcoms care about her class rank in the top ten in her class and recognize her strong grades in tough classes. I think her math SAT and getting into Engineering at Vanderbilt could be a hard sell. Please think about the reality of 25% of the class making 35 and 36 on the ACT. I know two National Merit Scholars with high test scores who were waitlisted at Vanderbilt despite expecting to get in last year. That said, you never know! Her essays and references might be turning points.
However, with engineering being a gateway to a job in a terrible economy, I would not allow that barrier to stop her from pursuing engineering. People succeed in engineering all the time who don’t start at the top with test scores. It is a killer path if you are in love with making As, but if you can tough it out, there are jobs. I have a nephew who arrived at VA Tech with weak high school prep, but he hung in there after many stumbles and has a great career now. There are colleges with engineering tracks that don’t have the level of difficulty that Vanderbilt has for admissions but they have the same or better luck with job and career outcomes. She might look at Clemson for instance, or at Virginia Tech or Georgia Tech. My longer view is that kids who make it through engineering public or private colleges seem to be faring very well in the job market.
As a mother of a 21 and a 25 year old, I just want to recommend that you take a deep breath and help her to get through the last few weeks of her fall semester. You can’t help which school she has a crush on. (neither of my sons is at their “dream crush” college)
Perfectly natural to have crushes and favorite hopeful colleges. But you can make sure she puts in viable serious applications to good colleges where she will be admitted. And you can make sure she does the alum interviews and gets on grounds of other colleges so that she is prepared to “date” a few colleges till April arrives and she will have time after the holidays to prepare for the uncertain outcomes. Your job is to help see that her applications get in by January first, and to support her recognizing that there are several happy endings for her as options. I think you really need to stop thinking about her standardized testing since she is clearly such a hard working girl and if she could nail these exams she would have done so. Instead, be the person with the long view of life and realize that if you believe in her talent, and can stake her through the ups and downs of senior year, she will arrive at a college and she will “own” it just like she “owned” her high school.<br>
Have you looked at Bucknell or at LeHigh? Just thinking of great colleges with lots of school spirit that also produce engineers with strong reputations. Have you considered Wake Forest, because they have an option where test scores are not submitted and they do evaluative interviews where she might shine?<br>
I had my sons make a simple chart for their reference letter writers that showed the middle 50% test scores so that the letter writers understood that my sons were applying to safeties as well as to reach colleges. Don’t let anyone talk you out of a reach college application or two! But do spread the love to match colleges. When our son went to an unexpected reach college, he was sad to say good bye to his match colleges because he had already throroughly visualized living at the match colleges and he could see he would work just as hard at them. (there really isn’t much difference in the work load at Wake Forest vs Duke is my point–and some would say the classrooms are more personal at Wake or at Furman, my alma mater.)
I toured Wake and Univ of Richmond and Furman with a friend’s daughter last year. She has a 31 ACT and a much less impressive transcript compared to your daughter. She had not taken the hardest classes in high school. She was waitlisted at Wake and at UR to my surprise. And given some merit money at Furman. Lastly are you aware of the 3-2 plan at most liberal arts oriented colleges? Three years at the liberal arts college followed by a planned transfer to the affiliated engineering college after junior year, with a five year engineering degree. This is offered in many places. Since she does so well re learning in the classroom, I would consider sending her to a college with good smaller classrooms to take advantage of her learning style.<br>
hang in there and have her back…she deserves your support and enjoy these final months with her</p>

6

<p>Thanks everyone for the suggestions - it will definitely be ED2 - she has one more shot at the ACT and the SAT. </p>

<p>I am not concerned with her standardized test scores as I know they only matter long enough to get accepted, but hate to see that one thing hold her back. </p>

<p>She had a frank discussion with the Vandy rep for our area and he assured her that she was not out of the running just because of the ACT score. We didn’t send the SAT scores to them so they don’t know anything about those. He stressed their holistic approach to the app process and promises he will go to bat for her if necessary. </p>

<p>We live in Virginia and VT is her second choice. We have several schools lined up that she will get in with no problem as backups. She hated UVA (her father’s alma mater) and William and Mary (my alma mater). W&M has a 3-2 plan with Columbia so we were really hoping she would like it there…</p>

<p>I don’t see her changing her mind about Engineering and I know she will succeed wherever she ends up.</p>

<p>I will talk to her about Wake Forest. Thanks for that suggestion. </p>

<p>Again, thanks everyone for all the advice. She’s a great kid and we have been very blessed by having her in our lives. As far as I am concerned, if she applies to Vandy and isn’t accepted. It is a bigger loss to Vandy than it will be to her.</p>

7

<p>My friend’s daughter and her GC were very surprised she was waitlisted at Wake…she had a good ACT plus national standing in debate. She interviews very well but she was from a city that generates a ton of Wake applications, and she was not the standout in her region from that point of view. One caution is that strong female students have more competition at your alma mater and at some (not all) liberal arts institutions where there is still a stronger applicant pool for women and more of a hunt to land good male students who often choose…schools like VA Tech which has the whole big sports scene etc. I know NoVa students have a harder time getting into Tech than do we residents of SW VA due to numbers. Make sure to look at Naviance (which we don’t have but you might have in your GC office). She may beat the odds because of her accomplishments and class rank which are viewed as predictive. But since she aces classes, I would consider sending her to colleges with big access to faculty mentors like Sewannee, Wake, UR, Furman, Lehigh is very pro applied learning/jobs landing. Bowdoin is one of my faves of all time and they have a test optional plan…wonderful community and they know who will succeed there. Furman loves to get Virginians and is in a city that is a boomtown in a bad economy. [Engineering</a> Dual Degree](<a href=“Furman University | Top Private Liberal Arts University in Greenville, SC”>Furman University | Top Private Liberal Arts University in Greenville, SC) My Furman friends ended up at Harvard Med, Harvard Law, Yale Div, Stanford, Univ of Chicago, Northwestern, and the usual grad degrees in Georgia, Virginia, Chapel Hill and South Carolina. had to put in a plug for a college that teaches and values the whole student with superb access to faculty mentors who fight for you in grad school application season.
Make sure you are also considering going outside your comfort zone just a bit re geography if you want to make sure she is not having to compete with tons of people in her region who all apply to the same schools.</p>

8

<p>Pretty difficult to get into the school of engineering with a 27. It would probably help her chances a little if she applied undecided to Arts and Sciences, rather than to the school of engineering. Something to think about.</p>

9

<p>Are the admission stats for the school of engineering considerably higher than those of A&S? I know the acceptance rate is higher, for engineering, but that doesn’t mean test score averages aren’t also higher.</p>