<p>o and lets not forget:
8) lack of (dominating) frat/sports culture</p>
<p>Jtmoney raises an interesting question with “At everyone else, opinions on “lesser programs” vs. the big names? If the goal is employment in the film industry, what are the advantages, if any, of USC, NYU, LMU, Chapman, Cal. Arts.” I know I am not everyone else LOL, but this is exactly what I have been fretting over and am still desperately waiting for the expert opinions on “lesser programs” vs. the big names! </p>
<p>In my non-expert opinion, there is a huge difference in choosing a program for direct employment opportunities for (below-the-line) jobs or choosing a place to hone your writing/directing crafts and other aspirations. Do you want to win the student academy awards or get a job asap? NYU, UCLA, Chapman,CalArts (and LMU?) are probably best for finding your voice as a filmmaker. USC in a lesser sense because it is THE LA Film industry school and helps way more with mainstream filmmaking than Indy ambitions. </p>
<p>Location is key!
If the goal is non-job related, you should find a place where you think you will be most stimulated to learn and be in a mindset to create masterpieces.<br>
If the goal is a job, then one should focus on schools that are located where the jobs are. NYU, UCLA, USC, and LMU are great for that. No offense to O.C., but Chapman is at a (slight) disadvantage here. east and west LA might as well be separated by the Berlin wall lol! Commuting in crawling traffic for hours each day with roadraging idiots get old really really fast (and so will you 
).</p>
<p>(Long-term) Networking
Where do you see yourself working and living in the long-term? If you are from NYC or LA and you have a solid network in place there, it might be worthwhile to expand your horizons by going to the other coast and increase your network. If you know you want to work in NYC or LA, and/or have no network, I’d say go there asap. Now, while Chapman does not have the best proximity to job locations, you should be able to build a good LA network for after you graduate.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I agree. 
I reread my post and it seems to me that I was merely suggesting those who were posting rumors–and this would be about any program under discussion–refrain. One’s own experience in a program, or even in visiting a program are truly welcome. Even if negative. Why not? They are valid feelings.</p>
<p>As I’m sure you know nrk700, threads often wander. There is no law against it. If a poster cares to inquire about another poster’s decisions, as you did, that’s great. And really, the response should be perfectly candid. My post was a response to others who jumped in. </p>
<p>While you did start this thread, I don’t think you should feel the need to own it or police it. That’s just cc. </p>
<p>To make matters clearer, I agree strongly with gladiatorbird’s position as she’s described it. Certainly $$ was in the equation, as it really should be IMO. But also fit, feel, and what the particular major could bring to a certain student. In all these cases, I also appreciate Gbird’s son’s independent decision. I say this with all honesty–it is not any one particular school, major, or specialty program that will turn an individual into a success in film and television. </p>
<p>And for those who do not have a quarter of a million dollars to easily spend on any private university, do not do it!!! In this way, I think you are very smart nrk, for thinking outside a narrow box.</p>
<p>Let me add, nrk, there are many ways to network and while some schools hand it to kids on more of a platter, they charge a lot for that great advantage. There are many ways to network in film and school ties are just one. If you live in NYC or LA, for example, you can use Craigs List to find student films and indie productions who are in need of interns/ PAs, etc. Once you work several, you are already in position to network with others you meet on set and keep working and growing. The more entrepreneurial your skill set, the more in tune you are to be successful in this business.</p>
<p>Madbean,
I am very happy to see that you have returned to join this thread! This being my first thread, I am still getting used to the ‘rules’. I deliberately thought to keep my initial post more general, and never intended for it to become so personal. I don’t want to police anything, let a lone a cc forum, so many apologies for that! Your initial post did remind me that it is a PUBLIC thread and am actually very glad that it has formed so many legs and become a more general guide on selecting (film) schools. </p>
<p>And thank you for pointing this out: “There are many ways to network in film and school ties are just one. If you live in NYC or LA, for example, you can use Craigs List to find student films and indie productions who are in need of interns/ PAs, etc. Once you work several, you are already in position to network with others you meet on set and keep working and growing. The more entrepreneurial your skill set, the more in tune you are to be successful in this business.”</p>
<p>People should not underestimate the power of merely being in LA or NYC (and the likes)! Shrinkrap’s son is studying engineering but still has his foot in Film/TV world just by merely being in LA. Gladiatorbird’s friend’s daughter landed a Pixar internship (no small feat!) while at CSULB etc. Since the main topic here is lesser knowns, which seem to be the ones outside the LA area, the question is: How much of a disadvantage do these students really have?</p>
<p>There are a plethora of UC/CSU and Privates outside of LA that offer degrees in Film/Tv/ Digital Media. From a financial perspective, I would urge students who do not live in LA to consider the cost of moving here. If you have a school close to home or one elsewhere that would end up preventing you from going into (massive) debt, understand that what Madbean says can also be done after graduation. Having a nice portfolio and fair amount of money to move to LA (or elsewhere) and carry you over for a while could be a much better situation than a quarter of a million (?!) in debt.</p>
<p>Ps. I HATE that box. PLEASE LEAVE ME OUT!!! :D</p>
<p>WOW! What have I missed here? nrk700, your thread is an interesting read indeed. Sounds like G-bird did a great job sharing with you about the benefits of attending Chapman. I, too, have a film student at Chapman. DS is a junior this year and has been with Chapman since freshman. When it comes to job opportunities, Chapman is actually in a better location. Disneyland is in their backyard. From what I hear, there are dozens if not hundreds of Chapman students who are already employed by Disney. Keep in mind that there are many paths to take into the industry. Not all of the jobs are in LA.</p>
<p>Now, whether you’re applying to known or lesser known schools, it’s wise to apply to as many as you can afford. Once you’re accepted, then you can compare the financial aid and you decide which is a better fit. Also, keep in mind when it comes to public schools, such as UC’s and CSU’s in California, most students will encounter overcrowded classrooms and it may take longer to graduate due to budget cuts. So when you go visit the schools, find out from their current students if they will graduate on time. Best of luck!</p>
<p>Welcome, Ocelite!</p>
<p>LOL. I was actually just reading some of your posts on another film school thread and wondered why you hadn’t chimed in. I am still very much on the fence with Chapman and the likes. For financial and sanity reasons I don’t just randomly want to apply to a bunch of schools without giving them serious thought first.</p>
<p>The budget issues with UC/SCU are and should be of concern. Time to graduation is a determining factor, not the mention the fact that the programs I am looking at are not the production programs and pretty much seem to be open for anyone… I have also always been more comfortable with smaller schools, so I’m dreading having to draw a number in a massive system.</p>
<p>I love the Disneyland comment, and a great backyard indeed! But I have Universal, WB, and Disney studios and a gazillion others in mine Were it not for my insanely strategic current location, affordable rent, and being way past college age, I would be a lot more open to moving away. 10 years ago Chapman would have got +2 points for Disneyland alone lol. I am familiar with O.C., Oceanside, and San Diego, but really couldn’t see myself living there at this point. UCLA, CalArts, CSUN even LMU are all commutable from home (lets keep pretending those first two are even an option lol). NoCal is an appealing change of scenery, but I’m still weary of the employment options up there (compared to where I am). Moving anywhere is going to be a downgrade in the employment sense. And I do need to be sensible :(</p>
<p>For Chapman, I am wondering how diverse (age-wise) the film students are and accepting of transfers in general, and more specifically me. There is an unfortunate, but very logical, clique mentality in film/tv; people want to work with people they have worked well with before… Sure I’m sociable and still look young, but it is a tough hand to work with when you are joining people who have been together for 2 years. A huge age difference would make it tougher. Financially, and in terms of time needed to graduate I’m highly doubtful it’s feasible, but it would be stupid to just assume the worst.</p>
<p>Does anyone know anything about Woodbury University?
[School</a> of Media Culture & Design](<a href=“http://woodbury.edu/mcd]School”>School of Media : Culture : Design - Woodbury University)</p>
<p>It’s a not-for-profit private in Burbank. Never even heard of the school myself and neither has my mom, who is from here. weird…</p>
<p>“For Chapman, I am wondering how diverse (age-wise) the film students are and accepting of transfers in general, and more specifically me. There is an unfortunate, but very logical, clique mentality in film/tv; people want to work with people they have worked well with before… Sure I’m sociable and still look young, but it is a tough hand to work with when you are joining people who have been together for 2 years. A huge age difference would make it tougher.”</p>
<p>The most important factor is not about your age, it’s about how well you get along with the others. It’s important to have mutual respect, not demanding. Last year, DS was working on one of the projects with mostly grad students. It turned out to be the most fun project. :)</p>
<p>I’ve befriended some very young peeps at my cc, so age should indeed not be that much of an issue…</p>
<p>I havent been on the boards in quite a while! Wow the discussion has zoomed. NRK: you know I am a fan of yours- but I think you were a bit harsh on madbean. I also have a son at USC (freshman-film production) who is NOT into frats, and is a really nice down to earth guy (yeah,i know I’m his mom, but its true). When I read some of what you wrote as the mom of this nice not frat oriented congenial kid now attending USC, I felt a bit of a kick in the gut. It’s that protective thing we parents get when someone disparages (or seems to disparage) something we think is a good thing and of value. I think madbean reacted in that same spirit, but was somehow seen differently here. We defend the school because we love it. And we love it because our kids thrive there. I’m sure parents of kids at (Insert any college here) might also rise to the discussion if they felt a place they love was not represented accurately. I think that was the spirit of madbeans comments and should be taken as such.</p>
<p>So: why do I love USC: because it is a good fit for MY child. He visited 18 schools, applied and was accepted to 5 and would have been happy at any or all of them. USC just happened to be the best fit for HIM. </p>
<p>So how did we get there: same way you are doing: making lists of priorities. Making calculations about cost (like Gladiatorbird, you, and many others, I think this is KEY)
Figuring out how he learns best, examining the equipment, course offerings, opportunities and then factoring in his goals for the future. </p>
<p>I believe that if you have drive, talent and determination you can and will make it in the film business. As I’ve posted elsewhere, you may not be in the job you originally envisioned, but you will make it somewhere. </p>
<p>Networking is KEY to getting those first few jobs. After that its really about talent and likability. USC is one school well known for that- as was mentioned above, but EVERY film school especially in the LA area has its own network. One of my personal favorite schools, Emerson in Boston, is as far from LA as you can get in the US: yet still has a very strong network (so much so that they call it the mafia) that helps its students get internships and jobs. Digmedia often posts about his sons connections from his school in OHIO and how they all work together in LA now. And we all need to remember that the network is the people you go to school with now and in the future. You will know them and they you. You will likely be hiring, or be hired- by them on and off for the rest of your career.</p>
<p>Those first few internships and jobs will be acquired by either using your school network: or by going out on your own and using any connections you already have, or your cousin has, or your mechanic, or or or… And you are right, if you don’t USE those networks they are worthless.</p>
<p>So back on topic: I think you have a good set of choices. Remember at UCLA (and at USC in fact) you don’t start film production courses until you fulfill your general education requirements. At UCLA you can’t even enter the major until you area junior. As we are East Coasters so I don’t know the ins and outs of the California state schools (we didn’t investigate them fully when he was looking) : but I wonder if many of those are the same? If that is the case, then as a transfer you come in at the beginning of the film production sequences. The only disadvantage is in who you know at that point, but you wouldn’t be behind in the sequence of film production work.</p>
<p>Maddenmd,</p>
<p>Thanks for chiming in again. I am sorry! I was indeed harsh in my response to madbean, which was not my intention. One of the things I really like about SCA at SC is that it is a smaller school within this ginormous one and if I could turn back time it would be at the top of my list… The film students are a different breed and didn’t mean to insinuate that its students are frat/jock types. I was talking about USC in general, and based it primarily on my experience there 13 years ago. Times have changed, so other students reading this should not base their opinion on my ancient one! </p>
<p>“So back on topic: I think you have a good set of choices. Remember at UCLA (and at USC in fact) you don’t start film production courses until you fulfill your general education requirements. At UCLA you can’t even enter the major until you area junior. As we are East Coasters so I don’t know the ins and outs of the California state schools (we didn’t investigate them fully when he was looking) : but I wonder if many of those are the same? If that is the case, then as a transfer you come in at the beginning of the film production sequences.”</p>
<p>UCLA indeed only admits at the junior level, so there is literally no film student community to join until then. Not sure about CSULB, but CSUN freshmen enter as pre-major students. There is also special on-campus housing for the film students. UCSC just requires completion of 2 of the 3 lower division courses to declare the major; for transfers these are taken in summer. </p>
<p>As a junior level transfer one would assume that UCLA is the most encouraging in the sense that everyone start the major at the same time. 3% admit and my stats make UCLA very very unlikely unfortunately 
Film school is a pretty equalizing experience, and I have yet to meet a film person/student who does not appreciate having someone with technical knowledge around. I would just assume that SCA /chapman etc freshmen/sophmores network and befriend each other well before production sequences start, making the transfer situation slightly more complicated. Not that USC is an option, but I am curious as to how connected the fresh/sophs are and how diverse (age-wise) the undergrads are. </p>
<p>If I wasn’t way past college age or in my predicament, I would not care as much where it was located as I do now because my reasons for attending would have philosophical reasoning involved in addition to the practical. At 22 I was contemplating just making a run for LA and doing the school thing on the side somehow because I knew how important networking/interning/working is, but resigned myself to being miserable for the purpose of practicality/finances and now I am so far out of the loop its laughable (more like cry-worthy). I would still urge people to give extra consideration to schools in prime locations or with prime connections. As Madbean pointed out, most (good) jobs are not even posted, so you really need to know someone who knows someone etc. to make it work if you do not have a KILLER resume (and/or reel depending on job type). </p>
<p>If I cannot get an in somewhere through the route of the masses or luck (my current situation), then I really do need a program that will help me in that department to improve my chances of employment. A BA in my situation is not going to make much of an impact on its own. As much as I want to, I don’t have the luxury to spend two years finding my voice/perfecting my craft; I need a job. The biggest concerns I have with CSUN and CSULB have to do with the fact that I am not looking at the selective production programs, I am looking at the free-for-all other options. All those great success stories I read about seem to be the production students, so I will likely be in the pick-a-number-and-hope-I-get classes-to-graduate-in-time group not the handpicked one. UCSC is the same problem as I do not have the luxury to apply for and do the production program. It’s a take-two-classes-and-declare-a-major major, so I don’t really think that any of these are optimal in the networking/exposure sense. :(</p>
<p>nrk700, I’m not sure why you have decided your best route to a film production career depends on an undergrad degree in film. Since you already have life experience, cc experience, and a certain patina of age (heh), there are other routes and they may prove less of a time-sink, allow you to bond with young pre-professionals your own age, and it’s MUCH less expensive. I have often suggested alternative routes like attending classes at UCLA Extension, which are often held in the evenings. This means you could work a day job, or even use your days to intern on various productions, while working towards a certificate or even just taking the classes that relate most specifically to your interests in film. Most of the instructors, if not all, are working professionals and can be instrumental in starting you down a road to networking. It is a stress-free option, as there is no giant admissions hurdle.</p>
<p>i have briefly glanced through this thread and i will say this about ucla, while the bulk of the majors for transfer students there do place an emphasis on grades and academics the art and arch and the film and tv schools (which are separate from to the college of letters and science) DO NOT…yes, they want to make sure that you have the bare minimum, but i know a film student who got into the film program with a gpa of 3.20, no internships or prior film experience…what do they look at and place an emphasis on? the supplement. i believe for the film majors the supplement is something to do with writing samples. focus on that and you will be gold…</p>
<p>Boogiebouche,
thank you for giving some hope for UCLA. Any idea what set your friend apart and got him in? The grade thing unfortunately is problematic as you need a 3.0 minimum at the time of application. I currently have a 2.97 I think, but am taking statistics this semester, which ends nov 3. If I ace that then my CCC GPA is slightly above a 3.0. However, my Dutch Uni GPA is dubious… According to Dutch Gov, my GPA is the equivalent of a B but basic math says 7/10*4 = 2.8. It is VERY likely that UCLA will say my GPA is not high enough if they use basic math instead of researching grade equivalency. :(</p>
<p>Madbean,
I do know of UCLA extension and actually took classes there 2 summers ago. I had initially intended on enrolling in one of their programs after my BSc before my grandfather died. Then I got my Dutch uni to approve some of those classes to count towards my degree so I ended up taking some classes to try and maintain some normalcy… Was not the smartest decision as I did not ace my classes, so that would be an extra thing for ucla admissions to raise an eyebrow over. Every single person I met there had a BA/BS at minimum and the classes fairly large, which was one of the many reasons I decided to finish a BA at least when I realized I would not be able to complete my degree in Amsterdam. I am already almost 10 years into the BA sinkhole, which I am not getting back, and getting a job is not so easy without a degree nor is caring for an elder valuable “work experience” or something to provide me with a reference. So why quit now? Ucla Extension would also take as long to finish and cost me more while BA is worth more than a certificate. UCLA Extension Film programs are meant to complement a BA not replace it and in this economy not having that degree is making life harder and a lot more difficult to get a PAYING job.
Yes I’ve met people, however not the right ones, and it’s all the same “hey want to PA or edit for free?” b.s… Assisting with student films doesn’t get me anywhere in the job department, and banking on someone to offer me a paying job some time down the road is hardly stress-free. How do I pay my bills in this scenario? I thought I’d try the get a job thing and forget about school (while still taking classes) but I have NOT been able to find a paying job or even a non-paying job that leads to something, which only helped kick my sense of self-worth down even further. Life ain’t too pretty on this side right now. UGH</p>
<p>Sorry for the pessimism; am not having a great day today if you haven’t noticed ;)</p>
<p>Hi NRK,
An update: I just returned from a week in San Fran and while up there asked the 2011 UCSC film production grad (the one I mentioned before) what he thought of the program (note: he did first two years at CC and transferred in to save $). Greatest weakness at UCSC, he said: “too much film theory!” Strengths: decent professors and, when he got to the hands-on work, he learned a lot. Overall, he felt the program was solid and he’s glad to have gone. He graduated with a bit of debt for his BA, but is now paying off his loans without much difficulty ($8000 or so, total). After graduating last year, this young man started his own company. Using contacts already established in music (he’s in a band/had contacts with a sound studio), he started producing music videos and commercials. He says the biggest downside is finding that so many of his work hours are “non-billable.” But he is making money and supporting himself in NorCal this way, one year out. I have no idea if any of this is useful or applies to you at all, NRK, since you already have significant experience in the field, but sharing it anyway.</p>
<p>Gladiatorbird,
Thank you so much for doing that! Sounds like he is doing pretty well for a recent grad. Too much film theory would not really be that much an issue for me as I already have a significant amount of production experience.</p>
<p>Greetings, everyone. I read nearly every word of these 75 posts and really learned a great deal. I do want to echo the issue with the UCs and CSUs right now if NRK thinks it is a less expensive route than private universities. DS, who is a freshman film studies major at Boston College (long story, that), was weighing UCSD just this past spring. Also, my older son is at Sonoma State, having elected to go the CC to 4 year route. I am irked beyond belief at our public universities because of the impacted major issues, getting your class issues, massive classes, and generally having far less than a 50/50 rate of graduating in 4 years. My youngest son gave up on continuing the UC tradition after he discovered the horrific graduation statistic and the issues with getting classes. My older son, bless his heart, will FINALLY graduate 6+ years later after dealing with the mess that the CCs and CSUs are in. The bottom line: if you elect one of California’s state schools, really do your homework and recognize you will be paying 5 or 6 years of tuition.</p>