Any Chance, At All, for Penn?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
1

<p>Hello, everyone, I'm just wondering if I should or shouldn't get my hopes up for admission into Penn. Really I think that it would be a wonderful opportunity, especially for me, because I'm relying on myself and my brother to be admitted, otherwise I probably cannot attend. </p>

<p>I'm just curious to if I'm getting my hopes up for nothing. I didn't do well on my ACT, but it will not matter because that will mean I don't even fit Penn's minimum requirements for what the look for in transfer applicants. I'm looking for some, if any, bit of encouragement. I really want to be accepted. Michigan is just too "football" & "work hard, play hard" for me. </p>

<p>STATS:</p>

<p>College GPA: 4.0</p>

<p>First Semester: (President's List)
COM 111 (SPEECH): A
GEO 121 (WORLD GEOGRAPHY): A
PLS 141 (AMER GOVERNMENT): A
PSY 161 (PSYCH): A</p>

<p>Second Semester: (Scholar List: one credit under)
BIO 133 (HUMAN BIO/W LAB): A
HST 132 (US HISTORY 2): A
MATH 130 (COLLEGE ALGEBRA): A</p>

<p>Third Semester: (President's List)
ESC 121 (PHYS GEOLOGY): A
HST 131 (US HISTORY 1): A
REL 100 (WORLD RELIGIONS): A
SOC 271 (MARRIAGE/FAMILY): A</p>

<p>Last Semester: (President's List?)
BIO 226 (MICROBIOLOGY): A?
MATH 140 (TRIGONOMETRY): A?
PHY 101 (CONCEPTS IN PHY): A?</p>

<p><em>All classes are graded on the 11-point weighted scale</em></p>

<p>HS STATS:
GPA: 2.175
Rank: 192 out of 241
ACT: ENG: 10, MATH:14, READING: 25, SCIENCE: 16, COMP: 16, ENG/WRIT: 13, WRIT SCORE: 8</p>

<p>ECS: Debate Junior and Senior year. Our team got 3rd place in state finals.
I know any ivy is pushing it, but maybe because I'm an identical twin it will help. Phi Theta Kappa. Twice Presidents List. Plus, I've shown a lot of improvement, so maybe someone from Michigan will help in the fact because the curriculum is not easy.
Working towards an Associates of Science degree. (on my final semester)</p>

2

<p>When I read the end of your 2nd paragraph it somewhat implied that you’re attending the University of Michigan (Ann Arbor), but in looking at your stats that can’t be the case, right?</p>

<p>Asking because unless you mis-typed it, you carried a 2.175 GPA in HS and your ACT was a 16 comp. U of M is way more competitive than that, and it’s almost impossible to carry a 4.0 GPA there — even if you were a 4.0 GPA high school student. </p>

<p>A 4.0 GPA at U of M - Ann Arbor campus with a number of solid EC’s and maybe some solid research experience w/ one of the professors would get you onto the realistic list of possible transfers, but those high school stats are likely going to destroy you. The # of accepted transfer students yearly is very low / very competitive too.</p>

<p>A 4.0 at Wayne State or Macomb CC won’t get you transferred to an Ivy unless you’ve got something else really, really special going on.</p>

<p>Would you mind confirming if your great college stats are at U of M’s A2 campus? If not, then where, as that plays a factor in Penn’s and most other college’s decision-making.</p>

<p>P.S. If you’re carrying a 4.0 at Michigan, I’d just stay put and finish your degree there. It’s one of the “public Ivies” and very well thought of.</p>

3

<p>(I’m outside of the 20 minute editing time limit for the above post, so typing this new one; sorry).</p>

<p>When I read the end of your 2nd paragraph it somewhat implied that you’re attending the University of Michigan (Ann Arbor), but in looking at your stats that can’t be the case, right? (edit: I looked at your prior postings and see you’re attending a community college in Michigan, so I’m re-answering your post. Ignore the one above please).</p>

<p>Not meaning to dash your hopes, but the Ivies accept very few transfer students, and some (Princeton) supposedly haven’t taken any at all in years. A 4.0 at a CC is very unlikely to get you transferred to an Ivy unless you’ve got something else really, really special going on — published papers, research, patents, your own thriving company…basically something that can offset your weak HS stats and lack of activities / leadership (I’m assuming none recently since you haven’t listed them).</p>

<p>You’re digging out of a huge hole with those high school stats, and you’ve taken a solid step getting great grades at CC. I like your idea/plan of attending a solid 4-year university so that your diploma will ultimately have that university’s name on it, and also that (per your other posts since you don’t have much $ available) you’re striving for minimal debt…but IMO you need to pick more realistic admissions options. </p>

<p>I’d recommend, and it’s only my opinion, applying to MSU as it’s in state tuition for you. You’ll probably get some financial aid - then make sure to carry a part time job, and do your best to graduate with a high GPA there and minimal debt.</p>

<p>Here’s what you’re likely up against in transferring to any Ivy:</p>

<p>—You: 4.0 GPA at CC; no significant activities/leadership in HS or CC; very weak HS stats.
—Typical competition: 3.7-4.0 GPA at competitive 4-year university (something like MSU or Michigan Tech in your area); fair amount of leadership in both HS and college; a hook at the college level like research or ?; solid HS stats.</p>

<p>Also, noting in your other posts how you need very significant financial aid, I’m not entirely sure if Penn and other Ivies are “need blind” for transfer students too. Regardless though, if your competition isn’t filling out a FAFSA and you are, then that means that they’ll be willing to pay the appx $60K/year on their own, which admissions will at least see even though they may not be able to make it an official decision factor.</p>

<p>P.S. Some of your other posts mention that you’re aiming for an Ivy because they’re need blind and it would effectively be free for you then. There are other more likely routes that you could take by researching this site further, just one example being Berea College in Kentucky.</p>

4

<p>Although it is true that it is very tough to get in as a transfer (especially as a junior), your college record will basically replace your high school record when you apply as a transfer since you have spent so much time in college already. This will be a huge benefit for you.</p>

5

<p>Okay guys, here’s the thing. I applied to two universities. Mich and Penn. For one, my academic adviser thinks I have a great chance of getting into Mich because I’m currently going to college at NCMC (North Central Michigan College). I’m taking quite a bit of classes that transfer equivalently to many classes at Mich.</p>

<p>Remember: I’m getting my Ass. of Science</p>

<p>Besides, those Penn recruiters are pretty damn good at making you feel wanted. I ended up getting 6 emails from them last semester in like two months talking about <em>students</em> getting a Bachelor of Science. :/</p>

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<p>“because they’re need blind and it would effectively be free for you then”</p>

<p>In general, note that these are separate issues. Most schools are need blind but don’t meet full need, some are need aware and do meet full need, some are need aware and don’t meet full need, and a handful are need blind and meet full need. Check both issues!</p>

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<p>Best of luck in your application results to Penn and U of M, and let us know here on CC how your results turn out with each of them. They’re both very selective schools so IMO they’re (unfortunately) high reaches for you.</p>

<p>It would be a plus if NCMC was somehow affiliated with U of M but it isn’t, so you’ve no inside track there.</p>

<p>My concern is that in effectively transferring into Penn, while you have great community college grades, your HS grades and your SAT/ACT scores still have to be presented. Here are some of Penn’s requirements for transfer students, and I assume that Michigan’s are similar:</p>

<p>The SAT Reasoning Test or ACT Test with Writing. The test must have been taken within the last five years

  • Registrar Report
  • An official copy of your current college transcript and all previous college transcripts
  • An official copy of your high school transcript</p>

<p>Hopefully I’m wrong, but I just don’t see a high % chance of either university’s admissions reps looking past the HS transcript and ACT results given all they other strong transfer candidates they’ll be seeing too.</p>

<p>Did you also apply to any safety schools, or are Penn and UM your only apps? Hoping you’ve also put in an app to somewhere like Northern Michigan Univ or Western Michigan Univ or Ferris State.</p>

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<p>Thanks for you advise. I know Penn is a big reach, but I really don’t think Mich is that <em>big</em> of a reach, especially since I’m an in-state student. Besides, ACT and SAT scores are composition scores that stress probability of success in college.</p>

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<p>From your no response to my “safety school?” question, it sounds like you don’t have one that you applied to. </p>

<p>The bulk of the heavy posters here seem to recommend that students apply to a reasonable mix of schools within their range of potential acceptances, but to always include one or two safeties (sure acceptances).</p>

<p>You’ve chosen, IMO, two high reaches given that you’re required to show them your ACT scores and HS transcript, both of which will offset your strong community college grades. If you have a safety choice in mind that has rolling admission I’d suggest applying to it soon if the deadline hasn’t passed, just to make sure that you’ll get one certain “yes”.</p>

<p>Ideally then you’ll get two acceptances and can study each one before deciding, including analyzing each of their possible financial aid packages. Adding a safety school really just puts you in the driver’s seat instead of the colleges, since you definitely know you’ll have an acceptance.</p>

<p>P.S. Western, MSU, Ferris and Wayne State all have rolling admission so you haven’t missed a deadline yet.</p>

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<p>No offense but I do not really believe you understand a whole lot about the places I’m applying to. I’ll be the first one to agree with you Penn is a high reach. However, I do not know anybody that would be more qualified to the University of Michigan than a 4.0 college student, living in Michigan. HS be damned it was three years ago and besides the University of Michigan will accept 3.0 students from HS. I’d like to see a college not respect a person that aces science and math classes across the board. I’m top in my class and with weighted point grading scale I get the feeling you really don’t understand how challenging this college can be. Besides, i had a conversation with my <em>college</em> academic advisor and she said “Universities do not pay much attention to your ACT scores if you are enrolled in college.”</p>

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<p>113: no need to be snippy at Ivyparent. It’s obvious that s/he is familiar with Michigan 4 year colleges and* is trying to keep you from falling on your face *even if you believe it’s strongly unlikely. Ivyparent took time to compose several reasonable and well-thought out posts to your situation. </p>

<p>Your response should be: “thank you, I’ve considered that possiblity but am comfortable with my decisions.” or to say quiet.</p>

<p>Your saying that UM-Ann Arbor accepting in-state students from HS with a 3.0 is a shocking statement unless s/he is a recruited athlete. My kid goes to the top ranked HS in this state and they serve as a feeder to UM-Ann Arbor (<a href=“http://www.michigandaily.com/content/feeder-schools[/url]”>Bad Bunny has helped men be comfortable in their femininity). There you need a minimum 3.6 GPA.</p>

<p>The fact that you’ve done great recently and your in-house counselor feels you’re a lock for UM is great. Congratulations. But certainly people on CC who overestimate themselves are not infrequent.</p>

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<p>Thank you, but I’ve already said “thanks” to her advice and I think she’s the one being snippy at this point.</p>

<p>EDIT: I’m certain ivyparent probably isn’t a student btw… lol</p>

<p>There are different admission requirements for high school students than transfer students. I think neither of you have a very good frame of reference, IMO. </p>

<p>These are the MINIMUM requirements for a transfer student to be eligible as a competitive candidate:<br>
A successful U-M transfer student to the College of LIterature, Science, and the Arts:</p>

<pre><code>Is in good academic and social standing at his/her prior institution.
Has a distinguished record of college work, earning a cumulative GPA of at least a B (3.0 on a 4.0 scale) or better.
Has earned sophomore or junior standing (preferably) with transferable credit earned at a community college or another two or four -year college or university.
</code></pre>

<p>(<a href=“http://www.admissions.umich.edu/drupal/transfer-u-m[/url]”>http://www.admissions.umich.edu/drupal/transfer-u-m&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>Also, look at this “common” myth associated with Mich:
MYTH: Even though I am getting straight As at my community college, my high school grades were bad, which will prevent me from getting into Michigan.
FACT: Not so! We look at the whole person when reviewing applications for admission, not just high-school grades. The fact that your college grades are so much improved will actually work in your favor, because it tells us that you are moving in the right direction. Talking about your struggles in high school and how you overcame them can also be an important part of your essay.
(<a href=“http://www.admissions.umich.edu/drupal/community-college-students[/url]”>http://www.admissions.umich.edu/drupal/community-college-students&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

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<p>FWIW, I transferred from a state school to Penn (granted, a long time ago. Back when it was somewhat less competitive than it is now). Keep in mind that some of the people transferring are students at other four-year schools who may also have had good grades (I had a 4.0 and very good test scores, for example). I think you know that Penn is a very, very long shot. </p>

<p>For Michigan: yes, you’re in-state and the CC grades are good. No one’s saying it’s impossible, just that it’s not necessarily a match (and it’s not very good form to tell people they don’t know anything when they’re nice enough to take the time to read through your stats and chance you. If you don’t like the advice, ignore it). Again, think of whom you’re in the pool with: people transferring from other four-year schools, other students from CC’s who had stronger high school records or better scores (and yes, they’re still looking at the scores). Can you still get in? Sure. And obviously they don’t want to discourage students who have made strong progress. But realistically, this is hardly a sure thing, so safeties absolutely make sense–admissions is always a game of odds. Good luck.</p>

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<p>I’m sorry to everyone if some of the people may have thought I was being a bit rude. It is not my intention to treat others as if their advice has no merit. I just really am serious about attending Michigan and even more about Penn. </p>

<p>A lot of people just don’t understand how poor I am. I didn’t have the parents to help me with this stuff, to edge me along, and to pressure me into succeeding. My parents lost our house, we have not a lot to eat, and it wasn’t too long to where I was riding with my Doctor’s secretary to the food pantry. But just to hear others say I don’t have a good chance to get into these elite colleges makes me upset. I’ve tried hard. Harder than anyone in my whole family.</p>

<p>EDIT: Just too bad we live in an era where the common minded person hasn’t a chance to get into institutions that formed the basis for this country.</p>

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<p>I think everyone understands and respects that you have tried hard and have had real struggles. But we are also saying that you cannot ASSUME that you WILL get into either of these schools, DESPITE your desire. Many students are “serious about attending Michigan and even more about Penn,” but your seriousness is not a guarantee of admission, GIVEN your competition. Trying hard is amazing. But admissions officers don’t measure your effort as much as they measure all aspects of your achievement to date. You will have stiff competition for both schools, especially Penn, and effort may not carry you over the finish line.</p>

<p>So, WHAT IS PLAN B??? We are all suggesting that you have a Plan B, in case Plan A – either Michigan or Penn – doesn’t work out. You can’t be so bullheaded as to think a Plan B is not necessary. I respectfully urge you to stop being willfully unrealistic and have a backup plan in case you are not admitted to Michigan or Penn.</p>

<p>Remember, you asked for advice. You came here for “chancing.” Given what information you have supplied, posters have tried to honestly “chance you,” and the information suggests that both Michigan and Penn are reaches for you, BECAUSE your high school record and scores remain relevant to any admissions decision. Doesn’t mean they are utterly impossible, but it will be hard, FOR BOTH SCHOOLS. Therefore, WHAT IS YOUR PLAN B? If you do not have one, you may be setting yourself up for terrible disappointment and we are trying to help you avoid this.</p>

<p>I understand that to hear others say you “don’t have a good chance to get into these elite colleges makes” you upset. But YOU ASKED, and people are trying not to be cruel, but honest. I know you have tried hard and I deeply, deeply respect this. But trying does not guarantee admission to either school, therefore we all want you to be prepared with a reasonable PLAN B.</p>

<p>You are setting yourself up for potential heartbreak if you remain unrealistic, touchy, and unwilling to listen.</p>

<p>Let me be clear. I am NOT saying you definitely will be rejected from both Michigan and Penn. I don’t know. No one does. Since no one knows, it is simply the wiser course to have alternatives so that you are not left high and dry should the worst case scenario – rejection from both schools – occur. Planning wisely will not jinx your chances at your preferred schools. But it will provide more options in the long run.</p>

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<p>This isn’t about making myself feel better because I got into an ivy. This is about pursuing a science degree and staying competitive enough to make actual advancements. That <em>will</em> not happen in Western Michigan University. So excuse me for not wanting a Plan B because Plan B is video game design.</p>

<p>PLAN A: PENN
PLAN B: MICHIGAN
PLAN C: VIDEO GAME DESIGN
PLAN D: SELF-LOATHING
PLAN E: DISAPPOINTMENT</p>

<p>EDIT: that’s all I have to say… respond if you want, I won’t. we’re all here for one thing: to make a difference. So let’s not pretend everyone on this forum isn’t after the same thing.</p>

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<p>Glad to hear that you’ve got a plan B in mind. That’s what we were all concerned about. Good luck with your co-plan A, and please let us know how Penn and UM work out!</p>

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<p>I don’t understand why the posters think your ACT scores and high school GPA really matter. The reason they care about them in freshman admissions is that they are predictors of how you will do in college. Thus, if you have already excelled in college they are pretty much irrelevant. Admissions will see them but I doubt they will give them much consideration. It is not uncommon for students to do poorly in high school and later get into a great school (even an Ivy) if they turn things around.</p>

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<p>Poeme, the ACT and high school GPA are not completely irrelevant, particularly when adcoms are sorting amongst large and talented pools of transfer applicants. In OP’s case, essays will be crucial and could, perhaps for Michigan, be determinative. Therefore, I hope OP writes a passionately argued case for himself. But don’t assume that the ACT score and high school GPA are irrelevant. If they were, colleges would not request them from transfer applicants. They are additional sorting tools of not insignificant import.</p>

<p>Let me reinforce, however, that in OP’s case the essays are extremely important and could be crucial.</p>

20

<p>Thank you, Poeme. It’s a big misconception that community colleges are “junior” colleges, especially when more than 85% of my classes would transfer equivalently to Michigan.</p>

<p>@swingtime yes ACT and high school GPA is important for high school students. But academic advisers keep saying they don’t really matter for transfer students in college. People still in high school: seriously, go to these “junior” colleges and even see if they come even close in terms of difficulty to your high school AP classes.</p>

<p>Someone who went to my high school had to drop out on the first day of my History 1 class. 44 question quiz every day, once a week. So apparently that’s a big deal for a high school student.</p>