<p>cptofthehouse - As someone who has heeded your advice in the past I feel the need to derail you from your unnecessary guilt trip. Paying full freight at a private college does not make you a better parent. I just saddles the entire family with debt. I’m willing to bet that some of the past expenses included family trips and experiences that you don’t really regret! Private college tuitions only make sense if they don’t cripple the parents and students financial future.</p>
<p>Thanks, Amroy. It IS a failure to make that goal, regardless of how one looks at it and justifies it. Not my biggest failure and I don’t dwell on it much. Not one of the top things I would have changed in how we lived, either. But, yes, it is a failure.</p>
<p>Any parent who has kids who graduate from college and are gainfully employed without too much debt should be considered a success (not to slight the many sons and daughters who do fine without a college degree). </p>
<p>Chris Rock used to do a routine - if your daughter is dancing on a pole, you have failed as a father.</p>
<p>That pole dancing thing is hilarious. However, not paying full freight Is absolutely not a failure. You supported your children, you were a devoted parent and you sent them to college. That is not my definition of a failure. One could say that by working sixty hrs a week my H and I were delinquent in our parenting duties. Sometimes circumstances or your family’s needs push you in one direction or another. That just means you played the best hand you were dealt.</p>
<p>It is a failure, but a financial one, not a character one.</p>
<p>If I look back over our income for the last 20 years and the choices we made, sure, we probably could have saved enough to pay for any private college. I could have raised my family in a 2BR apartment or bought a tiny house in a town with lousy schools. We could have driven our cars into the ground instead of replacing them every 100-120K miles. We could have never taken a family trip except to put the kids in the car and visit relatives. We could have invested less for retirement and put it towards college.</p>
<p>But life isn’t just about saving for college.</p>
<p>So instead we bought a moderate-sized house where each kid gets their own room in a fairly expensive but very safe town with great schools, because K-12 is just as (if not more) important than college. We choose not to drive vehicles that have one tire in the junkyard. We chose to take some family trips to different places. We put a lot away for retirement so that we won’t be a burden to our children.</p>
<p>Sure, it’s all choices. Others choose differently than we did, and more power to them.</p>
<p>But in the end we chose to live for the entirety of our lives, and not just for the college years.</p>
<p>It’s not my fault schools’ costs have spiraled wildly out of control for decades. I’m not taking on another mortgage per kid because of <em>their</em> failure, or letting my kid take the loans either.</p>
<p>If it means my kid can’t go to a full-pay private school? Oh well. So be it.</p>
<p>Do I wish we made more money so we could have offered the choice? Sure. But, we didn’t.</p>
<p>So, yes, I’ve failed. I still sleep well at night.</p>
<p>I don’t think failing at some of one’s goals is a bad thing, but a failure it is. Sometimes the goals are not something controllable and what your children end up choosing to be and do are something for which one fails or succeeds, any more than goals like having every one healthy. But the college goal was on that was doable and controllable for our family, unlike for some members of our family for which it would not have been realistic. And we failed, pure and simple.</p>
<p>With all due respect to the OP (and others here), I find that there is significant problem people have with aligning objectives with capabilities. Some of the issues I see where the OP exacerbated her problems:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>As a parent of a senior (daughter) in HS right now, I knew when she was born (in 1995) that the cost of a college education was estimated back then to be on the order of about $250K (per child) if I decided to go private. The OPs daughter is younger than mine so certainly that information has been readily available. So why wasnt this the planning target from day 1?</p></li>
<li><p>Given the above (and I know that life can sometimes through us some big curves), why did the OP only put aside $15K that is less than $1,000 per year? Any expectation that the daughter would be able to attend an expensive top notch private school was not consistent with these actions.</p></li>
<li><p>Again with respect to a mismatch in aligning objectives with capabilities, why did neither parent capitalize on their very exclusive degrees (Haverford and Bryn Mawr) to find employment that would pay more than about $75K (for the total of $110K)? Again, aligning objectives with capabilities, why set yourself up to NOT earn a high enough salary to support what one had to know was required to achieve exclusive private educations for ones children (even before you had those children)?</p></li>
<li><p>Did the OPs parents experience (approximately $180K equivalent in income and still objecting to the high Bryn Mawr cost) sink in to the OP to the extent that she recognized that private schools could be prohibitively expensive without significant planning.</p></li>
<li><p>And now just some speculation did the OP regularly take vacations? Are your cars younger than 3 years old? Did you buy a house to the maximum level of your borrowing capacity when you bought it? Any of these types of financial decisions again is not consistent with the desire to put ones kids through expensive private colleges.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>And for those who think I need to walk a mile in the OPs shoes, I too have been hit by automotive layoffs (in fact both my wife and I were hit and after 4 years, my wife is still out). I too have a daughter that is physically impaired (although after early years of speech therapy is doing quite fine in her own right with her hearing impairment). But I planned ahead we banked my wifes entire salary for 15 years. I choose a career with decent (but not exorbitant) remuneration. I drive an 8 year old car. We took mostly driving vacations with the girls. Our home wasnt purchased with our credit maxed out the bank would have loaned us money to buy a home 2.5 times what we bought (but still in the best school district in the state). In truth, we lived a very conservative lifestyle built around the family. And now, its just up to my daughters to work hard enough to get accepted to where they want to go to school.</p>
<p>I write this in part as a warning to parents whose children are young or perhaps not even born that planning is as essential to your childrens future as it is to your own. To the OP, I hope your daughter is able to find that educational nirvana that she and you would seek for her. This does not mean you are a bad parent as long as you have love in the household you are a success. My comments are just that planning would have helped.</p>
<p>Hindsight is wonderful</p>
<p>And even if everything you say is true, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect you emotionally when confronted with the reality. </p>
<p>
These parents are screwed. If costs keep going up at current rates, a top private school will cost $500,000-$600,000 for 4 years.</p>
<p>How many families do you think will be able to accumulate $1-1.2 million for college?</p>
<p>“Again with respect to a mismatch in aligning objectives with capabilities, why did neither parent capitalize on their very exclusive degrees (Haverford and Bryn Mawr) to find employment that would pay more than about $75K (for the total of $110K)?”</p>
<p>mekozak -</p>
<p>Contrary to popular belief, a BMC/HC/Ivy/Ivy-peer degree doesn’t magically cast the holder into some realm where that person can easily “capitalize” on that “very exclusive” degree. There are five Ivy, Ivy-peer, and Foreign-Ivy-Equivalent diplomas collecting dust in my house, and I can state in all honesty that I know people who graduated from each of the institutions involved who never have, and never will “capitalize” on their degrees. What makes a person successful in life is their character and their individual drive. Without those, no degree in the world will lead anywhere. With them, a degree may not be necessary at all.</p>
<p>You’re post is spot on. Stupidest / most obtuse guy I ever met graduated from Harvard Law. My H is not the most " book smart" person I ever met, but his work ethic and drive are without peer. He graduated from a large public, started 3rd shift at Wang in the day, and never looked back.</p>
<p>Great Post #126, Notrichenough!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Bully for you! Not everyone can bank their spouse’s entire salary or “choose” to make a lot of money - even with a degree from a private college.</p>
<p>HEY PARENTS:</p>
<p>YOU ARE NOT FAILURES. You couldn’t possibly be. And this is from someone who made every bad decision possible throughout high school and made my mother cry probably twice every night. I ended up finally going back to community college, I am now graduating with a 3.9, have been accepted to Rutgers and am awaiting Cornell. </p>
<p>DO YOU REALLY THINK I THINK MY MOTHER SOMEHOW FAILED ME?!</p>
<p>Your kid loves you. No matter what college they go to. Hell, you all deserve pats on the back, your kid is going to college!</p>
<p>When I told my mother about my graduating and acceptances, she cried and told me how proud she was of me. I was so proud of my mom; without her I might have really been a failure.</p>
<p>So, why don’t you go ask your kid if you’re a failure? YOU COULDN’T POSSIBLY BE.
(sorry for all the “yelling” 
)</p>
<p>What a kind, charitable soul your dear mother raised, Ftypeman. Thank YOU!</p>
<p>Ftypeman, I am glad you are yelling. Too many people here are laying on the guilt trips. And if any parent should feel guilty of letting down her kids (at least according to some of the people on this site), it is I.</p>
<p>I attended an elite university and graduated with no debt (thanks to my parents), yet chose a career that is not financially lucrative (but that I love).</p>
<p>I married a perpetual grad student with no money and lots of debt.</p>
<p>I divorced said grad student, irreparably damaging my financial future.</p>
<p>I chose to stay in a high-tax area for the superior schools and opportunities for my kids to walk and ride their bikes everywhere.</p>
<p>Instead of taking driving trips to local resorts, we flew to visit the great cities of the US.</p>
<p>Instead of going to Disney World, I took my kids to Europe and sent them to camps that helped push them physically and emotionally.</p>
<p>Instead of eating ramen every night, we had delicious home-cooked meals made from high-quality (and often pricey) ingredients.</p>
<p>Instead of saving enough to pay $250K per child in the future for college, I supported my daughter’s dance habit and my son’s musical interests in the present. (Not that I could have saved that much, anyway.)</p>
<p>Today, my son is at a great LAC on a merit scholarship. My daughter just bought her own car with money she earned from her part-time job, so she can now drive herself to her expensive dance lessons and work toward her future goals. We will be able to afford a decent state school for her if she doesn’t get the kinds of scholarships her brother did. Do I have any regrets? NOT ONE.</p>
<p>There are a number of schools that will meet full financial need without loans or with a capped amount of loans, sometimes depending on income, sometimes not. Vanderbilt is very generous with financial aid, so is Tulane. There is a helpful website where you can look at the details for each school: [Project</a> on Student Debt: Financial Aid Pledges](<a href=“http://projectonstudentdebt.org/pc_institution.php]Project”>http://projectonstudentdebt.org/pc_institution.php) Our EFC is $10,000 and my daughter is attending Vanderbilt for less than it would have cost for her to attend our local state university. My son graduated Tulane with less than $30K total debt, which I compare to my $10K in debt 30 years previous. It is not hopeless, but research is required.</p>
<p>I do add one thing - we moved from NY to Texas a few years back, for several reasons, one being anticipating that with 3 kids to put through college, we would be better off in an area where our salaries were lower. I knew my kids were smart and self-motivated and would get the academic work done, and also knew that there was money offered by private schools that might make it possible for them to attend. We were lucky enough to be able to sell our house in NY before the housing bubble burst and buy a much less expensive house down here, decreasing our debt. We don’t take fancy vacations, we’ve driving not-new cars for years and we shop carefully. My husband is a chef, so we mostly cook at home and don’t have a lot of luxuries. My oldest is now in law school (on his dime, he does have big loans but also has a decent scholarship and made a point of targeting Tier One schools, where he stood a better chance of getting a decent job offer), my daughter is the potential penniless one, being a music student, but she is in a good school where her degree will count for something if she ever decides to leave music, and my youngest wants to go pre-med. Did we incur some debt? Yes, but for 3 kids, it was doable, and both of my kids who want to go into higher paying professions have told us that they plan on doing for us when we are older and they are more financially stable. (They also joke about having to subsidize their sister the musician). Now unexpected things pop up and plans change, but there are ways of getting around the hopelessness factor and finding a school and program that works for your family situation. Don’t feel like a failure - just keep looking and the right fit will be there. Don’t be railroaded into taking on more debt than you feel comfortable with. There are probably schools out there that you haven’t even considered.</p>
<p>Ftypeman-- What a mensch You must make your mama very proud. Gratz on your achievement and I wish you a very happy and highflying future.</p>
<p>Notrichenough, you’re a mensch too. If your kids are like you, they will do very well.</p>
<p>So-- the main contribution I want to make here is to shed a little light on my BMC/HC friends, in case that helps anybody else looking at Quaker-style colleges. Late model status cars are not in the picture. They drive middle aged Civics or Priuses. The one percenters might have a <em>new</em> Prius. They value reflection, service, connection, and family time more than they do money. I have to chuckle at M’s admonition that I should have traded my ‘elite degree’ for a better paying job. Most liberal arts graduates, if they want to make any money to speak of, have to go on to a graduate degree. When my husband got his, after six years of grad school and fellowship, he started out at age 30 $80,000 behind the line. It took several years of steady work for his income to cross into the low six figures. I’ve never made much, which bothers me, but I chose to be paid in other ways. Maybe if I’d put my autistic kid in daycare every day he would have thrived. Or maybe he’d never have graduated HS, been able to navigate the bus schedule, community college classes, or the active friendships and club life he’s enjoying now. Who can say? Anyway, a good LAC is not like buying an investment vehicle with a promised rate of return—unless you get that the returns are something other than money.</p>
<p>I got so much great advice and help here, and much comfort. Thank you all. Personally I think Earlham should issue a medical warning with its NPC I spoke to the very helpful FAO at BMC and left with the hope that though there may be screaming and rending of flesh, at least there’s a chance that we will be able to do it. I will be looking carefully for financial safety schools where she could still have a good experience. I bought Paying for College Without Going Broke and I hope to get hold of a copy of Colleges That Change Lives. I could write about the nutty higher ed system we have but honestly, I don’t think it’s anyone’s evil plan—the system has been shaped, like healthcare, by a strange mix of powerful opposing forces and it is what it is. I’m not going to change it in time for my daughter, so we’ll just have to do the best we can.</p>
<p>Demeron2 - not sure if anyone’s mentioned this, but Guilford is a wonderful school (Quaker and CTCL) and offers the Bonner scholarship which is an amazing opportunity for service and for tuition. Good luck to you!</p>
<p>There is no reason why kids can’t get jobs while in school and help with the finances. My D began with a retail company the day she turned 16 and has worked ever since, and she’s now a senior at a top-tier conservatory. She’s had a work-study grant for all four years, a good scholarship award and has worked her way up in retail to the point where she is a store manager. Additionally, she has a permanent church soloist/section leader gig and also sings for special events such as weddings and funerals.
She puts in at least 30 hours a week plus all of her course work (her school requires academics along with music requirements) and maintains straight As. Is this feasible for all kids? Of course not (and neither of my sons could have managed it), but for an organized, driven students who is able to know where to be and how to budget time, it can be done. It’s also given her some great topics for grad school essays and interviews!
Also look into local scholarships given by organizations in your community and make good use to search engines- you’d be amazed at what’s out there and much of it goes unclaimed!</p>