Any Upper Middle black posters in the house?

<p>D started getting letters as soon as NMS recognition was announced (2nd sem of junior year?).</p>

<p>I don't remember when the snail mail started but according to my email box, that started around Febuary.</p>

<p>Got a question for the other posters in this forum. How self-motivated were your kids in the college app process?</p>

<p>For example, did your kids:
1. Research the existing pool of colleges
2. Select and narrow their choices
3. Note and follow all deadlines
4. Analyze actual financial cost
5. Research scholarships
6. Aggressively apply for same
7. Watch email and snail mail for results
8. Keep YOU informed of developments???</p>

<p>Thing is -- I remember doing all this on my own when <em>I</em> was a senior, but my D seems almost apathetic about the process, and it's KILLING me! Her standard response: "I have HOMEWORK, mom!" </p>

<p>I mean, I know 5 APs are a supposed to be a challenging load, but isn't that what she'd have to do in a competitive college anyway -- and STILL keep tabs on things like fellowships, internships and other opportunities?</p>

<p>I'm the one anxiously awaiting the mail each day trying to figure out how much the next four years are going to cost me! I'm at a point where I'm tempted to just quit and let her miss a crucial deadline and accept the consequences. </p>

<p>I'm just curious to know how involved other parents are in the process. Is my experience abnormal?</p>

<p>Supermom-
5 APs ARE challenging! And I'll bet she participates in some ECs as well.</p>

<p>I have 5 kiddos. 4 college/grad students (yes all at the same time) and 1 in high school. Depending on their personalities and previous time commitments completing your above list would be overwhelming to them. And its just not taking 5 APs but doing well in them academically.</p>

<p>Also depended on how many schools they were looking at. If their goal was more than 8 than they needed administrative help. And I had no problem in helping them out when they needed it. It was better to get the process streamlined from the very beginning which resulted in much better efficiency, no missed deadlines or snafus, and much, much less stress.</p>

<p>As a single mom with my 5 we found over the years if we all acted together as a team we as a family all benefited. Both boys ended up including 3 military service academies into their application process which requires medical physicals, (2) senator and congressional nominations and interviews, physical fitness testing, eye exams, doctor's records, recommendations and other MOUNDS of paperwork. This is all in addition to civilian schools apps, the FAFSA and the PROFILE and outside scholarships.</p>

<p>Since much of this affected our family's financial situation we all had a vested interest in the various outcomes. If one sib forgot a rec or transcript another would remind them they needed to get it, same for registering for the ACT/SAT/SAT subject tests/APs. If mail came in that was missed someone was bound to keep track. </p>

<p>Oldest had a great outline for resumes and for getting it to fit in the Common App so the younger ones benefited from her experiences and so on down the line. </p>

<p>So to answer your question, in our family, we all helped out in the app process and they all still do for grad school, internships, cheering for each others respective sports..... They even had mock interviews with each other to help improve their interview styles. Boys wore the same pants/shirt/tie for interviews a year apart! Again all this was important as it affected our family financially and lightened the stress level.</p>

<p>It seems to have worked! They are enjoying their respective colleges.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

<p>Supermom you and your D sound like me and mine, except my D is NOT takings 5 AP's and I did nothing like what you listed when I went to college (in '76). I think I will be much more laid back next time with S, but that has been the story throughout their rearing.</p>

<p>Also, I wonder how much the kids school culture influences behavior. Her "posse" is probably the top 10 in the school and NONE of them seem to be doing what you describe. Well maybe one. In general they are more into and moivated by, what's important to them in a more general way, and fortunately they share some pretty good values.</p>

<p>I have a different question. How much does the number of Black students effect Your feelings of "fit'; (and how much does it effect your childs if you a parent). My D doesn't seem to care much , and her number one choice has maybe 3 percent and probably no merit aid ( a tiny school, albeit quite well regarded and part of a great consortium,) MY first choice has a 8 percent Black pop, and is in a more urban setting that I hope will help her become more comfortable in a setting different then she was raised in. Probably some merit money too...</p>

<p>LOL! I'll DEFINITELY be more laid back with my younger D -- waaay back. My kids are night and day. Both in the GT/AP track, but the oldest plugs away like a bulldog, while the youngest is my social butterfly. Turned the house upside down this year when she acted stunned that we were less than impressed with her "A" in gym and her "F" in English. That bears repeating. ENGLISH(!) </p>

<p>Youngest dreams of Princeton. Why? To find her PRINCE, of course! So . . . yeah. I'll be laid back. So far back, I won't even REGISTER a blood pressure anymore - much less need to take my meds. <em>chagrin</em></p>

<p>Re: % minority. My oldest actually DID weigh this factor pretty heavily in selecting from the initial choices I presented. While she's comfortable in a majority environment, we've had the luxury of a larger minority community visible in our local media, active in her religious community, and evident in our local support services. I think this may be the reason she never chose to join the "Black Awareness" club at her school. </p>

<p>I admit to a certain maternal "I told you so" itching to have her call me from college saying: "Mom, I know I told you that I thought this whole "race" thing was overblown and passe, but . . . I've joined the [insert minority org here] club at school -- and now I understand what you meant about "belonging" and "giving back."</p>

<p>Again, your two could be my two (but my younger is a boy and quite social with the" fairer" sex if you get my drift), and with the second, although as an AA male, I may well eat my words, it doesn't seem as much is at stake. My older D has so many opportunities because of stats, that her not doing the things you listed has frustrated me and driven me todo them instead. I think you are saying your "bulldog" is not a "bulldog" about the college search? Would you mind sharing her list? Because of MY efforts, My D's list is embarrassingly long.</p>

<p>Hey, I've seen lists as long as 25 elsewhere! Would love to know your D's (feel free to pm me if you'd rather not post). Post #104 has our list. It's humble. Tho' she works hard at the academics, she's only top 15%, not top 10, so the Ivys are a stretch. We also included a couple of Nat. Ach free ride schools for just-in-case.</p>

<p>This "waiting" period for news of admissions and fin. aid is AGONIZING! Sorry to be such a drama queen, but Feb and March seem like YEARS away now that they're actually only two months!</p>

<p>SMIA, Greetings from a parent who went through the journey last year! You can read post 44 in this thread to see the results of the journey - and it was quite the journey. I am going to answer each one of your questions. Before I do so, however, let me say that my daughter only had 3 AP classes during her senior year, and had lots of ECs (work and volunteer activities), resulting in not having a lot of time to spend on college stuff. I would imagine that your daughter with 5 AP Classes must be really super busy. When you add to that the senior year activities, such as prom, senior trip, etc., I would say that she needs all the help that you can give her. </p>

<ol>
<li>Research the existing pool of colleges</li>
</ol>

<p>Yes, DD did do some research on possible colleges and she had a list by the end of her Junior year of High School. She had a "dream" school early on in high school (Stanford), and I encouraged her to have a good mix of school (safeties, reaches, small, large, cold weather, warm weather, LACs, etc.). I do have to say that her list changed when she came back from a summer program (TASP), where she had the opportunity to bounce off ideas regarding schools with other teens. I, too, did research on schools - I looked at the collegeBoard's SAT and ACT scores for the schools that she had expressed an interest in, and I encouraged her to take the SAT and ACT again to get within range (which she did).</p>

<ol>
<li>Select and narrow their choices</li>
</ol>

<p>No. Let me explain: I actually thought that her initial list was too narrow, and I encouraged her to widen the list. I knew, by monitoring CC, that it was going to be the most difficult year to date for admissions, so I encouraged her to cast a wide net. She ended up applying to 12 or 13 schools (I don't recall exactly how many).</p>

<ol>
<li>Note and follow all deadlines</li>
</ol>

<p>Yes. DD was very aware of deadlines. There were times, though, when I had to give her friendly reminders. As I indicated above, she was really busy and the friendly reminders worked. </p>

<ol>
<li>Analyze actual financial cost</li>
</ol>

<p>No. We did have a chat about finances, but she never looked to see which of the schools cost more or potentially had better financial aid. I did not expect her to do so, as we had no idea what the actual results of the FAFSA/CSS would be. When the financial aid offers came in, I handled the analysis and subsequent negotiations with the schools. Allow me to point out that you should never accept the initial financial aid offer from the school, even if you have a high EFC, as we did, you can still negotiate (PM if you want details).</p>

<ol>
<li>Research scholarships</li>
</ol>

<p>Not really. I had her register for the Fastweb scholarship list (I also registered for it). I really had to push her to apply for scholarships that I thought that she had a chance for.</p>

<ol>
<li>Aggressively apply for same</li>
</ol>

<p>See response to question 5.</p>

<ol>
<li>Watch email and snail mail for results</li>
</ol>

<p>Yes. Although she had two e-mail addresses and I had to remind her often to check the second one that she hardly used, but for some reason schools sent her e-mail to that address. I would also monitor the threads for the schools that she applied to on CC. That is how I learned that some students were receiving notices (e.g. USC, UMich) and I would ask her if she had received anything from them.</p>

<ol>
<li>Keep YOU informed of developments???</li>
</ol>

<p>Uhmmm... Yes, as it relates to progress in school. In regards to developments regarding her college applications, I would monitor CC and inform her of the latest developments (I am smiling as I write this as it sounds like the dreaded helicopter parent, that I hope I was not).</p>

<p>A quick last comment: There were times when I felt like I was more interested in the college admissions process than she was. I am glad, however, that I got involved. This allowed her a little more time to enjoy her last year of high school.</p>

<p>That was helpful, and now I have the courage to post the list...</p>

<p>from the super-reachy to the safest safety.</p>

<p>Duke, Emory, UCB, UCLA, Scripps,Smith, UC San Diego, Pepperdine, Occidental, University of Santa Clara, UC Santa Barbara, UC Davis, Mills, UC Santa Cruz, Spellman.</p>

<p>She's already in at Spelman, and at Mills & Santa Clara with better money then expected. No money mentioned from Spelman.... go figure...</p>

<p>D's "dream" is Scripps which we'd never heard of if they hadn't invited her for a weekend. No aid likely... I guess they knew what they were doing.</p>

<p>Some of the UC's where added last minute when she was researching marine biology programs.</p>

<p>Re: black enrollment</p>

<p>Both my girls have attended predom White pvt schools (day and boarding).<br>
D1 was pretty much unconcerned w/ black enrollment (and to my knowl has not joined the black group at her LAC), but wanted at least 5% black enrollment - - which immed excluded an number of "top" schools (not tip top shcs, which thend to have black enrollment of 6-8%). </p>

<p>D2 is at least initially interested in HBCUs (D1 had no interest - - ever) and would pref shc w/ black enrollment more in the 10-20% range. This actually works out well since D2's early PSAT scores are be more modest than her sister's (D1 had NMS recognition), but still strong that she is well w/i the range of the schs she's asking to visit.</p>

<hr>

<p>Scripps was on D1's list. The sch flew us out to a URM recruitment prgm. She loved the Claremonts (and was "courted" by CMC and Harvey Mudd), but ultimately decided that CA was too far from home. (FYI: black enrollment at Scripps was lower than that of the other Claremonts, except Harvey Mudd.)</p>

<p>Shrinkrap, your list is not particularly long. D1 had a list of approx. 10 private LAC/Unis, a couple of OOS flagship state Us and shcs w/i our own state system - - thank G*d for EDI acceptance. D2 is a soph, has 8-10 on her list and has asked to visit 2-3 this summer.</p>

<p>How is D1 making out? Where did she go? Which LAC's have a 5-6 percent enrollment? It seemed they were either 8-9% (ivys and the like), 2-3% ( almost everything else) or 100% (HBCU's.) Occidental seems to be in the ballpark, and maybe Smith.</p>

<p>As I recall D's list was:</p>

<p>Amherst, Wesleyan, Haverford, Swarthmore (all about 9% black)
Smith, Vassar, URoch, Oberlin (7-8% black)
Emory, UNC-CH, UVA (8-10% black)
Hamilton, Kenyon (3-4% black, but got a pass b/c of remote locale)</p>

<p>Yes, I've seen some universities that fit the bill, and I guess I'd forgotten about those 9 percent LAC's at the TOP since they are as big a reach as the Ivy's. Any theories about how these top schools get these percentages? I assume they have the prestige to attract the best, or maybe the money, but I also wonder if having those numbers attract more kids...on the same note, I am wondering how it tuned out for D1. Forgive me as I prie (?sp), but she has much in common with my D and I wonder if I'm overreacting to this "diversity" thing.</p>

<p>The top LACs woo the top URM students: flattering letters (D's letter from Williams was, "Please come, please come, we have lots of money;" pretty much the same from Wesleyan and MIT), fly in programs, etc. And they offer very generous finaid packages, even more so now that LAC are dropping or capping student loans just like the Ivies. </p>

<p>It really went to D's head. She was queen for a day - - and offended if a school didn't fawn over her (and the HBCUs were painfully slow out of the gate). Fortunately, she's settling in nicely now.</p>

<p>I'm certain the numbers would be much higher at Kenyon, which D loved, but they do not meet 100% of need (an issue for us and many other URM families). Schools that reach a critical mass (5-6%?) seem to have less trouble attracting and enrolling black students. Even though D attended predom White schools, she was used to seeing more than just a handful of black faces, so I'm sure that for students from schools/neighborhoods w/ even larger % of black students/families, enrollment of only 3% (45 black students at LAC w/ total enrollment of 1500) looks and feels unfamiliar, if not uncomfortable.</p>

<p>D is settling in nicely - - LOTS of friends, but not as much studying as I'd like (and weaker grades than I'd like). For D, I believe the larger number of black students means she doesn't have to seek refuge in black student group. OTOH, not being in the group means she has fewer black friends than she otherwise might (fewer black friends than I'd like her to have?).</p>

<p>In answer to why Ivy/Top LAC tend to have more AA students: </p>

<p>This dovetails nicely into a previous discussion we had in this thread: the paucity of high scoring AA students. Basically the top schools "cream skim" off this pool. Whereas it is crapshoot for a white student (even with perfect board scores, etc. etc.) to make it into an Ivy, the scenario for an AA student with those perfect scores is different. Once that narrow band of students is taken out of the pool the rest of AA students are spread amoungst the literally thousands of other schools.</p>

<p>My S seems unconcerned with the number of AA students. BTW be careful when assessing the percentage of Black students. Some schools include international students of color (from the islands and Africa). Not to imply there is not an affinity there that should be wonderful for our kids but I do wonder about the shared experience (flashback to my college days when I met a sister from Liberia via London who would fly to Europe for the weekend--not my life).</p>

<p>Glad this thread is jumpin' again. Hey, thanks for the suggestions from all of you. Nice to learn from those who have boldly gone before me.......</p>

<p>foolishpleasure what school does your daughter attend?</p>

<p>D insists that I set the record straight re: her college list. Amherst and Swarthmore didn't make the cut (too snooty and too intellectual/serious, respectively). Bowdoin (which I failded to list), Hamilton and Kenyon were hanging on by a thread (too remote).</p>

<p>Trig, we were very careful to always ask about AA enrollment (black is just my shorthand). I'm not sure your skimming theory is entirely accurate. D and I were surprised by the number of black (and White first gen college)students w/ more modest academic profiles enrolled at the top LACs. I believe the top colleges are more willing than lower-ranked schs to take a chance on these students: top shcs have lots of strong apps, so who cares about a few kids w/ lower numbers; to shcs have resourses to support weaker students, so the schs graduation rate isn't adverse affected, etc. Other less-highly ranked schools are unable or unwilling to take that "risk" (or for a lower ranked school it's just more of a risk).</p>

<p>Just called the NMSC -- Nat. Ach. school letters went out on 1/23, and student letters went out on 1/25. </p>

<p>I can't STAND the suspense!!</p>