<p>I received a $12,000 Tisch scholarship (per year), and I know it's not much, but I still want to do it. I want intense B.F.A. training in a professional acting studio and not a "safe" education in a B.A. program. I know I can find success regardless of where I go, but I still want Tisch. Anyone else in the same boat with me? </p>
<p>***Posted this in the NYU and Tisch MT forums as well.</p>
<p>I’ve been accepted to Tisch, and though I was of course upset–it is not affordable. Though it was not my top choice, it was an option, and I wish that I at least had the option to actually attend. However, there is absolutely no reason to attend if I would be in an extreme amount of debt. </p>
<p>I’d encourage you to reread the title of your thread: “Anyone else going to Tisch regardless of how much you’ll owe?” Regardless of how much you’ll owe? What’s four good years of your life when you’ll be paying back loans for at least the next twenty? I’m sure I don’t have to tell you the odds of actually getting a decently paying job in theatre, much less it’s consistency. The debt will ruin your career. How is it possible to pay back student loans, find money to travel and audition, and to support yourself until you hopefully get a job. This is actual money you’ll have to pay back. This is not like High School where either the government or your parents are paying for your schooling. It is now your responsibility to pay back a majority of your schooling. I don’t know what kind of aid you recieved, but just assuming that you only recieved $12,000 a year in scholarships, you will have to pay back $180,000. That’s a significant contribution towards a house–and paying for a decent house can take 15-30 years. Can you pay back $180,000 in student loans and a place to live while you’re auditioning for jobs? Remember, just because you get one or two jobs does not mean that you won’t have to audition anymore–it will take years and years of experience before you hopefully are regularly called about reading for a role. </p>
<p>Think about your goals later in life. Do you want a family? How can you support a family, buy a house, support yourself, and SAVE for future unknown needs with an incredible amount of loans? It is not worth it. You even mention that you’ve heard success stories of students who go to a lesser known school and still make it. Sure the experience you could have at Tisch could be fantastic. But the reason you’re going to school is not just for the experience–it’s to educate yourself. Yes you would be greatly educated at Tisch, but the four years at Tisch will debt you. What if you suddenly decide you want to go to graduate school? You certainly couldn’t because you’d already be in an enormous amount of debt. What if, (and I really hope you are successful, but…) you cannot make a living as an actor OR want to change careers because you may not feel the same way you feel about acting as you do right now? It’s hard to believe that you’ll change your mind, but you never know.</p>
<p>I know Tisch may sound great no matter what the cost, but the tuition for Tisch will be the least of your problems. How do you pay for food, clothes, nights out with friends, shows, flying home for school breaks, etc. What if you decide film work is better for you? How can you afford to move to LA with an enormous debt? You can’t afford a car. You can’t afford housing in LA, and film work in NYC is decreasing. It is becoming much, much easier to film in cheaper places. What about your age? When you graduate it will become very, very difficult to find a role for your age. Most roles that are 21-25 are played by actors in their 30’s. With a giant debt, how can you afford to support yourself for at least4 or 5 years before you may get your big break? </p>
<p>I am not trying to discourage you from attending Tisch. Sometimes you can’t think about all of the “what if’s” and prevent yourself from just going for it. But taking on $180,000 is a very, very serious thing to do at such a young age. I have teachers at my public high school who are struggling to support families and pay back their student loans (and they’re well into their 30’s at least). My teachers have a consistent paycheck and it is still difficult to find jobs. What if you’re a certain type that is not often cast? There are more than a few actors and actresses on Broadway who have landed starring roles and still cannot pay back all of their loans. They are still struggling and they’ve “made it”. </p>
<p>Sorry this post is so long, in a sense I’m working out my struggles with financial decisions as well through this post. It’s honestly not worth it. If you really feel that you must go to Tisch, then I wish you the best of luck. But seriously, seriously consider what you will be doing to your life if you leave college with $180,000 in debt. You posted this thread for a reason–you are looking to see if anyone else is doing the same so you can find reassurance. But that means that you are questioning your decision. I’m sure you already have, but look at the facts again. This decision may hurt you much more than it may help you. </p>
<p>I wish you the best of luck in your decision. There is no wrong decision, but some will make it much more difficult for you to thrive and enjoy yourself after college.</p>
<p>Thank you for such a thoughtful reply. Yes, I have thought of these things over and over again for years now. Yesterday, I had myself thoroughly convinced that receiving my BA with almost a full scholarship at a selective state school was the right choice, but I received my aid letter today so I started to question my decision. Based on conversations I’ve had with my parents, I will probably be left with $130,000 when I get out of NYU. I could go to Marymount Manhattan to get my BFA, but I would have about $40,000 to pay when I get of there. I might as well just leave school debt free and make the most of every opportunity. Settling for the BA (MT Track) is the wisest option even though I want the BFA.</p>
<p>With $130,000 of debt you will not make it as an actor no matter how talented you may be; you will be way too busy working to pay back the loans and to survive in NYC. Do some more research, find out how much your monthly loan payment will be, then go to the Equity website and find out how much dues cost, look into SAG and AFTRA dues too. Now look at Craigs list or some such to find roughly how much an apartment would cost - even now when costs are lower and there are no real “bad” neighborhoods in NYC. Say you share a one-bedroom apartment in the outer boroughs (way in the outer boroughs) with one or two other actors. I think there’s a thread covering costs of living for an actor in NYC and LA, maybe someone can find it.</p>
<p>The point is, you can’t have everything, only you can determine what’s most important to you. You can go to your dream school, NYU, but probably won’t be able to pursue your dream of being a professional actor because you’ll have too much debt. You can go to your less expensive school and still be very well trained to pursue your real dream when you graduate.</p>
<p>Welcome to the real world. Good luck!</p>
<p>LetMeEntertainYou is wise beyond her (?) years. That post could have been written by any number of the parents on this board who actually have experience paying back student loans and would tell you not to take on the debt. Billy!, are you sure you can even borrow that kind of money? Are your parents willing and able to co-sign? Rich uncle? Still, my advice is DON’T DO IT!!! </p>
<p>I’m sorry you feel that the going for the BA is settling. I hope that you read some of the current BA students reports on how happy they are and what they are doing even though the BFA didn’t work out for them either. </p>
<p>Tough choices ahead. I wish you the best of luck. :)</p>
<p>Haha, thank you amtc. I’ve already been introduced to the real world, but thanks anyway 
I know the wisest choice for me (debt free!) and I will be pursuing it come fall. I was just wondering if anyone else actually plans to go to Tisch with financial burdens similar to mine.</p>
<p>sandkmom, I think Billy posted somewhere that he has a BFA option: Marymount Manhattan. Just saying it is not entirely BA vs BFA in his situation, I don’t think.</p>
<p>sandkmom, I appreciate your words, but I am completely happy with my BA option! 
I want the BFA because I want to totally immerse myself in training (three full days at NYU is exactly what I want), but I know I can receive a quality training at my BA school. I have two other BFA options, but they are also expensive (even though Marymount is considerably more “doable” than NYU). If I go for the BA, then I will graduate completely debt free (and with additional savings) in three years, and then I can move on to an MFA, so this is a fantastic option in my eyes. Don’t worry, I’m not “settling” for anything. I’m going to work scathingly hard, train, study, and save so that I can devote my life to my craft. I’m never going to stop pursuing my dream of working as a professional actor, but at the same time, I know there are other ways to make a living in this art form. In my life, I want to make a difference through theatre whether it be teaching, writing, directing, or performing. I’ll do it.</p>
<p>Anyway, sorry about the rant! I just want to be clear that I am the type of person to take advantage of every opportunity I have. I do not look down upon any of the schools that have offered me a place in their programs. :)</p>
<p>I appreciate you spreading the happy stories of many BAers, however! I CAN make my BFA options work; it’s just a matter of what’s best for me right now and the amount of money my family and I can spend. </p>
<p>I’m talking with two NYC actors I know right now to get more opinions and advice. You guys are all really helping me out with your comments!</p>
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<p>This is a beautiful statement, Billy! I think you have a great attitude.</p>
<p>“I want intense B.F.A. training in a professional acting studio and not a “safe” education in a B.A. program.”</p>
<p>“Settling for the BA (MT Track) is the wisest option even though I want the BFA.” </p>
<p>It’s clear from your posts that you want the BFA, that you have two BFA options you are considering in NYU (very expensive) and Marymount (less expensive), and that you will leave school debt free with your BA option. Given your words above, it WASN’T clear that you were all that happy with the reality of your choices which is why I wanted to point out the other CCers who had posted, pretty recently in fact, about opportunities in their BA programs that they were now happily pursuing. I believe some of the students also wanted a BFA and it didn’t work out either for financial reasons or they didn’t get in. </p>
<p>I am glad you clarified and that you do not feel you are settling. Believe me, I am all for the BA/MFA option…my S is planning to go that route…so that one gets my vote! Go, get the BA, be open to the new opportunities and new dreams that are sure to follow and graduate DEBT FREE!!! :)</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/891558-something-consider.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/891558-something-consider.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/889066-comforting-story.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/889066-comforting-story.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/884188-money-issues-worth.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/884188-money-issues-worth.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/463259-conservatory-vs-not.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/463259-conservatory-vs-not.html</a></p>
<p>^^Some other threads you may find interesting as you ponder your decision.</p>
<p>You can also always audition as a transfer for some less expensive options next year if you still feel that itch for intensive BFA training. Graduating at 23 isn’t so bad especially since you’re male. It sounds to me like you made the strategic mistake of not diversifying your list price-wise this year, so here’s a list of schools by “sticker price” to get you on track if you decide to do that although it’s all last year’s prices … <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/697171-rankings-sticker-price.html?highlight=sticker+price[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/697171-rankings-sticker-price.html?highlight=sticker+price</a></p>
<p>Also keep in mind you could do the BA and then do an intensive non degree training program. You could even train at some of the same studios used by NYU and for a lot less money I believe.</p>
<p>Either way, BFA or BA…do what’s right for YOU! :)</p>
<p>I think this thread brings up a point that’s not often addressed on these boards, focused as they are the beginning of the actor’s journey–namely, that the path is long and winding. In the BFA program that I attended, the head of our program was constantly asking us two things: “Why are you doing this?” and “How long do you intend to do it?” I think that constantly checking in with your motivations and always keeping the bigger picture in mind is very important.</p>
<p>There’s an older actor at the Guthrie Theater whose story I often think of. After completing his masters as a McKnight Fellow at the Guthrie (this was a few decades ago), he went almost directly into a teaching position at SMU. So, directly from a professional training program into the academy. After some years there he moved to the West Coast where, in addition tv and film work, he was a company member at ACT under Bill Ball. Now, many many years after he left Minneapolis for Texas, he’s back at the Guthrie and never goes a season without work. Another actress I greatly admire, a Guthrie regular, has been a stalwart of the American theater since the 60s. She recently did the first major film role of her career opposite Meryl Streep in Julie & Julia…about 40 years after her professional debut on the Guthrie stage. We’re sidetracked these days by the instant success of young stars (who, we often forget, started in this profession when they were very young, and/or with the help of influential family members) and the allure of fame and awards. Often we forget about bumpy, unpredictable journeys of actors who are true workmen (and women).</p>
<p>You can make some key decisions as an actor–where to train, where to live, what medium to focus on. We make these decisions with certain goals in mind, but often the road will dip and take sharp turns we could never predict. In many cases the actor’s life is one comprised of happy accidents–it’s how we prepare ourselves to meet those accidents that is truly important. Actors who are extremely successful immediately after graduation get stalled later on–in fact, some are TOO successful and burn out. Others might start slow but be more consistent. Others find they are happier contributing to other fields entirely. I certainly had no conception as an eighteen-year-old that I would be where I am now at 25. It’s also true, in the end, that I couldn’t be more pleased with how things have turned out, though it’s nothing like I would have expected. </p>
<p>Billy, your motivations are pure and you have a powerful drive to succeed. Stay in touch with these two things and they will help you weather many storms in the life of a theater artist. They will also guide you to exactly where you need to be. Perhaps grad school will be a great option for you at the end of your undergrad…and then you’ll spend 6-7 days a week in the training you crave! Or perhaps you’ll find another way. In either case, you are in no rush, and you will find your way.</p>
<p>For some reason, I feel as though you are being mislead by the others on this board. Some have said it’s impossible for you to recoup $200,000 in Loans. But honestly, I don’t think Lady Gaga is still repaying her loans. Yes, it’s very competitive, but you must have known that before applying for such a major as acting. As to the poster that said to account for a family, I doubt as an actor you would plan on having a family before you’ve reached where you’d like to be career-wise. Everyone is also advising you to choose the cheaper and easier option. But what is that? You chose the occupation of an actor to take risks in life, not play it safe. If you wanted a career you could easily plan on a chart, than it would have been better to choose a profession in the medical or law fields. Being an actor requires a certain amount of blind faith. If you “know” that you “will not” get a job in acting that will payback your loans, than why even have Faith in God? or in anything for that matter. Why would you want to live such a secure life? So you’ll have crippling debt, and what? Are you going to plan for EVERY mishap that life decides to throw at you? At what point are you going to say “I decide.” ? If we planned for every unexpected illness, every birth, death, loss, etc. We would not really be living and enjoying our life, but planning for a time that’s not promised to us. I don’t mean to sound critical, I would just hate it if 4 years from now you realize that you regret where you went to college, whether that’s NYU or another school. In LIFE, you just have to roll with the punches. You’ll figure it out when you get there. It looks bad on paper, but you must have known that you would be in for some sort of debt while you were filling out college apps, I know I did.</p>
<p>It’s great to have faith in yourself, to be optimistic about where life is going to take you and certainly these qualities are necessary for anyone seeking a career in performing. And certainly if you don’t take risks in life you often will miss important opportunities to achieve the successes you want. But there is a difference between taking prudent, calculated risks and taking irrational ones that will waylay the pursuit of your dreams rather than enhance your opportunities for success.</p>
<p>Run the numbers on what it takes to pay back $200,000 in student loans. Even on an extended 30 year payout you have to pay about $1300/month. Add the cost of such necessities as health insurance, housing, utilities, food, transportation and clothing and even low balling it, you are up to about $4000 - $5000/month net after taxes depending on what city you are living in. That’s about $55,000 - $72,000 a year gross earnings. Now I think even you would admit that Lady Gaga or any other "superstar didn’t make it “right out of the gate” and spent years waiting for their “big break”. So, the question you need to ask is what kind of job are you going to get that gives you that kind of income while still enabling you to have the flexibility to actually go to auditions, get additional training (which doesn’t end upon graduation) and take time off for the performing opportunities you will need to build your path to stardom.</p>
<p>Real life is a whole different kind of reality show than American Idol - which is why a whole load of prudence and practical thinking needs to be brought to bear when deciding between 2 different schools, one of which will saddle you with tremendous debt and one of which will not. This may sound harsh but it is important to keep a balanced view and understanding that there are many good paths to success in performing and getting fixated on “one school” that will put you in tremendous debt will very likely cripple you in your efforts - particularly when there are other viable options available.</p>
<p>Good news is I’m going to Tisch! I’m going to the school that’s best for me, and my parents and I have plan. I will have some debt to pay off, but so what? I’m making my dream a reality. Plus I’ll only have to pay back the Stafford loans on my own, which is much lower than than my initial estimation with PLUS loans. Thank you guys for all of your comments. I cant’ wait for Tisch and the Meisner studio and to work with such immensely talented students and faculty. Like my Dad said: “If you really want something in life, you can make it work.”. Thank you again, guys!</p>
<p>Billy!, I’m glad that you worked it out with your parents. It is a whole different ballgame with your parents being willing to take on the debt then it is with you financing most of a $200k education. Good luck at Tisch! :)</p>
<p>ajrover, I doubt anyone on this thread is out to mislead Billy! This board is all about offering an opinion and letting the OP decide. Your perspective is from a student according to a recent search of your posts. My perspective is from a parent of a Fall 2010 Theatre major. Additionally, I have experience paying a mortgage, utilities, grocery bills, insurance, etc., AND paying back student loans of “only” $40k so I know all about monthly income and monthly payments. Finally, my kid grew up in the business so I know something of what it is really like to audition and book professional acting jobs. I believe in dreams and in dreaming big, really I do. But I would NEVER let my kid take on undergrad debt of nearly $200k and he’s got a head start careerwise. I’m NOT saying my opinion is more valuable than yours. I’m just saying that paying back student loans is a you know what and people should think long and hard before they take on the debt.</p>
<p>Congrats Billy! I’m glad I was hopefully able to persuade you.
Like My Tisch Audition, you have to be aware of “Theater Parents.” Not saying that any of you specifically are, but sometimes people don’t want others to succeed because of their vested interests in something. At my Tisch Audition, parents were rude, they were looking me up and down, they were bragging about how their kids were leads in such and such plays, how they went to Yale for the summer Drama Conservatory. The parents even told me not to practice in the hallway because I was disturbing others working in the same building. But did I listen? No, I literally went to the a bathroom, and practiced for 1 hour locked in a stall. And you want to know how many got accepted out of everyone who was there that day? 2. Myself, and a guy who flew from Colorado who’s parent’s merely dropped him off to audition. None of the braggarts or stage parents’ children got in. Beware Billy, people are going to discourage you to do things so that their children can succeed, or their children can be the only ones standing who have those accolades. If we all supported other people’s children, what chance would ours have?</p>
<p>Silly parents (and people in this and every major): The people you meet on the way up and the same people that you will meet on the way down. Oh, and it is bad karma to wish bad things on other people. The others kind of cheer when you crash and burn.</p>
<p>…but I do remember (not fondly) the audition room.</p>
<p>Congratulations!</p>