My current high schooler is just one data point, and there are so many other factors, so it’s hard to draw conclusions.
He took zero AP exams and zero AP classes, and he also had relatively weak transcripts. In no way could I mark “most rigorous” (he’s homeschooled/dual-enrolled with 39.5 units of college) on his transcripts. He also got some Bs in three college classes, and had only two subject test scores over 700. He had some good reasons for his weak transcripts, but going into the college application/admission process this fall, I was doubtful if he’d get into anywhere.
He’s still waiting on a few more schools (almost certainly won’t get in), but we’ve been very pleasantly surprised.
He did not shoot for a plethera of top 20 schools, though he has some. He’s been waitlisted at a top 15 school, waitlisted at a top 25 school, and accepted to four top 40ish schools. He was also rejected by a top 20 school.
We were elated, to be honest. I figured the lack of AP exams, classes, less than perfect grades and lack of rigor would hurt him big time.
We gave the schools a boatload of information and he submitted two different arts supplement to all schools that would accept them. I gave them documentation of his disabilities as an explanation for a number of discrepancies.
My conclusion:
It is likely that the last of AP classes and good exam scores may have a negative effect on tippy top admissions (Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Mudd, etc), unless the school doesn’t offer them. However, if a student has other strengths, it appears the lack of AP exam scores doesn’t hurt for admissions to the next level of colleges (top 50ish).
Billsho, saying that AP Scores are not used for admission decisions ( which unless you have been a fly on the wall is something that I don’t think you really know) yet admissions officers will pay attention to which AP classes have been taken is not really realistic.
The scores give them a way of to evaluate the difficulty of AP classes taken at particular schools and a way to compareI students across schools . And students who apply EA or ED have only their Jr. Year Transcripts to submit. How is it "fair"that some of those students will have multiple AP classes on their transcripts and others will have few or none and those classes will be factored in to admissions decisions and “unfair” that their AP scores are taken into consideration?
Many students do submit their AP scores to colleges, especially if they are strong scores.
College admissions officers will look at all material submitted , although they will give greater “weight” to some factors over others.
Colleges are notified of students who have reached AP scholar status at the end of his Jr. Year .
I would think that “self-study” for an AP test is the best proof of student’s commitment and study skills. I think it is really remarkable to self-study for AP Calculus, for example.
Many thanks to everyone for your opinion. This admission process is like a quest in computer game. You have to jump on the second level to get a key to open a door with a price on the third level. I stopped looking for logic as the process is surprisingly illogical.
@Youdon’tsay <i wouldn’t="" self-study="" just="" to="" look="" good="" for="" colleges="" (i="" do="" anything="" colleges),="" but="" if="" your="" dd="" has="" taken="" an="" ap="" course="" i="" see="" no="" reason="" take="" the="" corresponding="" exam.=""><i wouldn’t="" self-study="" just="" to="" look="" good="" for="" colleges="" (i="" do="" anything="" colleges),="" but="" if="" your="" dd="" has="" taken="" an="" ap="" course="" i="" see="" no="" reason="" take="" the="" corresponding="" exam.="">
For the next 2 years my D is doing everything to look good for colleges 
Do you think she is drafting these stupid college assays just for the pleasure of writing them? Filling-in tons of paperwork instead of having fun? Taking ACT test - why would she do it if not for college admission?
Let’s not fool ourselves. I would not be on this forum if it would not be for college admission. I think my D would drop from HS and do something more useful if not for HS diploma and college admission.
I would think that “self-study” for an AP test is the best proof of student’s commitment and study skills. I think it is really remarkable to self-study for AP Calculus for example. "
Only if it is NOT offered at the students HS school as others , and college admissions officers, have pointed out.
Colleges don’t want 1 dimensional students who have only shown an ability to take tests well .
@ blossom
<if a="" kid="" claims="" an="" interest="" in="" engineering="" but="" did="" not="" take="" bc="" calc="" (if="" offered)="" or="" either="" ap="" physics="" chem="" took="" psych="" and="" environmental="" instead-="" that’s="" datapoint="" on="" who="" might="" understand="" what="" is="" (or="" what’s="" required="" academically).="">
My D was advised to apply to some soft major to Ivys or undecided and switch once accepted.
@skieurope
<from personal="" experience,="" last="" spring,="" i="" went="" to="" an="" exploring="" college="" options="" event,="" which="" had="" reps="" from="" harvard,="" stanford,="" penn,="" duke,="" and="" georgetown.="" during="" the="" q&a,="" someone="" asked,="" “what=”" do="" you="" think="" of="" applicants="" who="" self-study="" for="" additional="" ap’s="" over="" above="" ap="" classes="" they="" take?"="" one="" rep="" responded,="" “please=”" don’t="" that.="" we’re="" not="" impressed="" by="" that."="" other="" all="" nodded.="">
Thank you very much. I was told the same info by our college counselor.
@menloparkmom
<only if="" it="" is="" not="" offered="" at="" the="" students="" hs="" school="" as="" others="" ,="" and="" college="" admissions="" officers,="" have="" pointed="" out.="">
D’s HS offers lots of AP classes. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to schedule them in a reasonable way. For example, it may be easier to take AP Biology exam without AP Biology class. Then concentrate on Chemistry and Physics at school.
Then your daughters college counselor needs to be the one to explain that difficulty on her letter of recommendation . I’m sure that many prior students there have run into the same problem .
(Coming from your daughter it may sound like she is making an excuse.)
What is about National AP Merit? It requires 8 AP exams by the end of junior year.
- How kids manage to do it without self-studying?
- How is it viewed by adcoms? (academic prowess or grade grabbing?)
Most schools do not admit by major. However, this strategy only works if the “soft major” and the intended major are in the same school. e.g. don’t apply undecided to Penn CAS thinking you can declare in Wharton later.
There are not too many kids who do accomplish that feat, so don’t worry about it. Those students applications will be evaluated in the context of their school - and the kids who took AP tests without taking the AP classes in an effort to " impress" admins - won’t.
@ mathmom
<mit used="" to="" say="" that="" the="" average="" mit="" student="" had="" taken="" 5="" aps,="" but="" in="" our="" school="" students="" who="" aimed="" at="" level="" schools="" 6="" 8="" aps="" and="" many="" took="" a="" post-ap="" math="" class.="">
Thank you for the info. this is a very good reference point.
@mathmom <note that="" our="" school="" offered="" 24="" aps,="" but="" no="" student="" could="" possibly="" take="" many.="">
Out school lists 27 APs, but I don’t understand how they count. Each time I count APs, I find less then 27. Anyway, it is not possible to take all of them, even logistically. AP exams are strategically scheduled on overlapping days
@mathmom <the second="" approach="" is="" to="" take="" the="" number="" of="" aps="" you="" think="" can="" handle="" in="" areas="" that="" interest="" and="" then="" find="" out="" what="" kind="" colleges="" will="" put="" running="" for="" at="" your="" school.="" theory="" i="" that’s="" way="" go.="">
Yes, I agree, this is an optimal approach. The problem is that my D doesn’t know what she wants to do. She swings all the way from art to math to history to Spanish
Some schools name some of their classes “AP” even if there is no corresponding AP test.
ONLY AP tests count toward national recognition .
@menloparkmom
Does National AP recognition matter for admission? I googled “National AP Merit” - it doesn’t have a single recognition from the top ten.
There’s is no such award as National AP Merit.
You are mixing up the National Merit scholar designation , which is achieved by about 16000 students each year who took the PSAT and scored above a certain level ( most of them end up applying to many of the same top colleges ) and National AP scholar.
menlo beat me to it. For lurkers following along, here’s the link …
https://professionals.collegeboard.com/k-12/awards/ap-scholar
OP, of course, you have to do required things in order to apply to college – fill out an app, write essays. I’m, of course, talking about things you don’t have to do but some choose to do to look good for colleges, such as join yet another club, run for a leadership position about which you don’t care, volunteer to mark it off a checklist rather than because you care about a cause.