AP Policy Question

<p>grasslands, What book do they use for Honors Physics/Calc? I might like to check it out, because I have a physics idependent study. My other concern was the difficulty of being placed in either honors physics or honors calc. I got an AP Physics B - 5, and am very good at math, but so are a lot of people who go to the University. Is someone, like myself, who quite handily got an 800 Physics and an AP 5 going to find it easy to place this high, or does it take more, like really advanced math or 3+ years of high school physics?</p>

<p>Ditto with Calculus. Just wondering.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p>TexasTaxiMom et al -- My daughter's 5 was in AP Cal AB, not BC. According to the coursebook, the core requires the following:</p>

<p>Students take six quarter courses in the following areas: at least two quarters of physical sciences (see section A and C); at least two in the biological sciences (see section B and C); and at least one in the mathematical sciences (see section D). </p>

<p>My daughter was hoping her Calculus AB score would place her out of that one quarter of math, because a 5 on AP Calc AB gives credit for Math 15100 (Calculus). Then she noticed that there was a catch (also from the coursebook): </p>

<p>MATH 13100, 15100, and 16100 may be used to meet the mathematical sciences requirement only if MATH 13200, 15200, or 16200 is also taken. </p>

<p>So, in other words, to get credit for Math 15100, she had to take another quarter of Calculus -- something she chose not to do because math isn't her strong suit or area of interest. However, she did not have to take a quarter of math because, fortunately, she had taken AP Statistics and her score from that test gave her single math course she needed. She also received credit for 1 quarter of bio, so she plans to complete the six-course requirement with two bios and two physical sciences. She is enrolled in bio now and is really enjoying it, by the way!</p>

<p>And, for all of you interested in attending, she is really happy at UChicago and has never regretted her choice of schools.</p>

<p>Thank you for explanation! Yes, we noticed the same thing. The credit came at the conclusion of the second course. I think there are several schools that do it that way. </p>

<p>My oldest is doing Bio for his science requirement (different college) and is also happy with that choice. It's less math based. This semester they added bioethics and discussion of scientific evolution theories etc...for the non pre meddies! :)</p>

<p>jerew, </p>

<p>your physics placement, honors or regular, is based on your performance on the calculus placement test. </p>

<p>sillystring, I think what you mean to say is that for your D to have credits to be used to meet the math requirement, she would have had to take another math course. I do not see anything anywhere that says she does not get credit for 15100 WITHOUT taking 15200. It's just that she needs both to meet the math req. </p>

<p>Now, for bio it IS different. You get one credit for a 5, and another credit after taking a 2 quarter "AP 5" bio sequence.</p>

<p>newmassdad, </p>

<p>I realize that my placement is based on the test, but I want to know how competitive it is. Like if someone were to say that they got a 1600 and 1/1000 rank, that they still would have a 50/50 shot at Harvard, I would get a sense of the difficulty, just as if one's S or D says that they got a 4 or 5 on the AP test, and were able to place into high level classes, even though the AP test doesn't give placement, as neither does an SAT and rank equal a mathematical "admit," but they both are indicators of future success.</p>

<p>NewMassDad -- We found it all very confusing, and in a way its all semantics. While scoring a 4 or 5 on AP Calc AP technically gives you credit for math 15100, you only get the credit if you take math 15200. This is directly from the "core" section of the handbook: </p>

<p>"MATH 13100, 15100, and 16100 may be used to meet the mathematical sciences requirement only if MATH 13200, 15200, or 16200 is also taken."</p>

<p>UChicago only requires one quarter of math. Basically, you still have to take a quarter even if you scored well on AP Calc AB, because you have to take Calc 15200 to claim the credit for 15100. </p>

<p>In this case, taking AP Statistics was more valuable to my daughter than taking AP Calc, because she got credit for the required one quarter of math through her AP Statistics score. This was good news for her, because she did not want to take another quarter of Calculus!</p>

<p>NewMassDad -- I just wanted to say that I see your point . . . You are correct that the handbook does not say students will not receive credit for Calc 15100 -- it's just that they have to take 15200 in order to use 15100 to meet the math requirement. The bottom line is that a good score on AP Calc AB doesn't excuse students from math at UChicago -- they still have to take math (either Calc 15200 or another math course) to meet the one-quarter minimum math requirement. Interesting that the "AP Light" Statistics course was what exempted my daughter from Math at UChicago!</p>

<p>Sillystring, </p>

<p>The situation is actually even worse, in some ways, than what you say. The placement tests in some ways trump even the AP scores. So a kid could get a 5 on the BC, but be placed in 16100: "The strong recommendation from the department is that students who have AP credit for one or two quarters of calculus enroll in Honors Calculus (MATH 16100) when they enter as first year students. "</p>

<p>What this means is no credit via AP! And the same applies for chem. </p>

<p>So this can be very confusing. I think it a fair assumption that Chicago is not one of those schools where AP credits can save a years tuition. But then again, the rigor of Chicago courses is such that the student would be the real loser if they did.</p>

<p>The stats issue is an interesting one, given how many top schools don't like AP stats. I suspect the situation at Chicago is tied into the core math requirement. After all, many of the less math oriented kids will never even take serious calculus, so Chicago needs another track.</p>

<p>OK so according to the list of AP credit at UChicago's website ( <a href="http://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/level3.asp?id=348%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/level3.asp?id=348&lt;/a> ), which APs gives you credits and which APs only gives you placement into a higher level without credits?</p>

<p>Jarew, The Physics book used for Honors Physcis at least for the fall quarter was "An Introduction to Mechanics" by Daniel Kleppner and Robert Kolenkow. Sounds like you have a solid Physics background to me. I just know they go very fast in Honors Physics. My son took Calc II & III, Linear Algebra and Discrete Mathematics at the college level before entering Chicago but he was still surprised with how fast they went in Honors Physics. He felt they covered Calc II during one class period figuring everyone in the class already knew the material. Again I believe you are invited to take Honors Physics based on how you do on Mathematics exam during oreintation but you could contact Chicago if you have more questions. During one class period during the fall quarter of 2004 as the class began an article was handed out to the students in his Honors Physics class. It was an article about the recently announced Nobel Prize in Physics for 2004. One of the winners was an undergraduate at Chicago. So it is possible another future Nobel Prize winner could have been sitting in his class that day. Pretty heady stuff.</p>

<p>Wow, I am taking my school's Calc AB, where I can slack and still be top o' the class. I can pick up the math quickly, but I am worried now because I don't know Calc II, III, Linear Algebra, Etc... bummer. Perhaps I should spend my summer preparing for the placement exam since I didn't take these courses in high school.</p>

<p>Hmm I'm taking AP Cal BC, Stats, Phys B, Micro, Macro, US History and European History over the course of these two years; will I get any credits for these?</p>

<p>Wamdue, don't choose Chicago, or any other top private U, if you expect to get lots of direct benefit from AP scores. By direct benefit, I mean acceleration toward graduation. That seems to be much more of a state U and mind range private U phenomenon. You may find some credits useful, but don't count on it. </p>

<p>Jerew, the calc placement test is pretty brutal. only a few kids place out of all calc - less than 10%. But do not be misled - there is nothing wrong at Chicago with taking "only" a regular course instead of honors. IMHO, Chicago has honors courses mostly to address the widely varying backgrounds of admittees, not for an indication of some kind of superiority. Note, for instance, that only intro courses have honors sections.</p>

<p>Wamdue, I believe all the APs in the table give credits as indicated. Placement in higher level in Chem or Bio is based on AP score or examination. Higher level math and physics is based on exam alone. And, as said before, note that a science major is encouraged (or, in the case of physics, required) to take higher level intro courses that override (negate) AP credit.</p>

<p>newmassdad-
I certainly do not want to place out of calc, I would just like to start out right by taking the Honor's Class. Or perhaps you were referring to 10% being placed in the honor's class. I am probably worrying about this too much...</p>

<p>I don't know the numbers that place into honors calc. I only know that about 8% place out of all calc.</p>

<p>newmassdad: Assuming I get placement to a higher level of maths due to APs. Does that mean that by taking that higher level maths course (say course 102), I'll get credit for both the lower and higher level courses (say course 101+102)?</p>

<p>I agree with newmassdad. Don't sweat the math exam at orientation either and don't spend your summer trying to study new math. Brush up what you know and you will be fine. I believe if you would somehow slip up on the exam and afterwards spoke to the department they would allow you start in Honors Calculus. It is very easy to move down a level sometimes even after the first 3 weeks of a quarter. It happens all the time. They want you to be challenged but not to be overwhelmed. Students come in at different levels but rapidly all come together in knowledge usually by end of first quarter.
Remember the point of Chicago is to learn to think, not see who finishes first.</p>

<p>NewMassDad and Grasslands are giving excellent advice. UChicago provides a superior educational experience in a great atmosphere. Spending four years there -- and not trying to shorten that time with a lot of AP credits -- will be worthwhile. That said, my daughter is not a math person and she spent a lot of time fretting about the calculus placement test. However, she opted not to spend her summer studying for the test and she still did fine. In fact, she was pleasantly surprised to be invited to a meeting for those who scored well. However, she did not let her surprise affect her better judgment -- she still opted not to continue in calculus! She's a humanities person all the way, and is focusing her attention in that area.</p>

<p>sillystring-
Did your daughter take any college math, or just Calc BC?</p>

<p>Jerew -- She does not plan to take a math class at Chicago. Here is the requirement in that area (from the handbook):</p>

<p>Students take six quarter courses in the following areas: at least two quarters of physical sciences; at least two in the biological sciences; and at least one in the mathematical sciences.</p>

<p>My daughter took AP Calc AB in her junior year of high school (not BC), followed by AP Statistics. She is fulfilling the six-quarter requirement with:</p>

<p>1 quarter of math (credit for AP Statistics)
1 quarter of bio (credit for AP Bio)
2 additional quarters of bio taken at UChicago
2 quarters of physcial sciences take at UChicago</p>

<p>I hope that helps, jerew.</p>