Wow, you have kids taking BC calc as sophomores? That is insane. What, are they taking differential equations as seniors? At my son’s school the “mathy” track is Honors PreCalc freshman year, Honors Stats/trig sophomore year and then HL math. The pre engineering kids take AP AB/BC calc in junior/senior year instead of HL math. As far as skipping a year of math and selective STEM universities, the kid who skipped math sophomore year is headed to MIT. His school does not allow credits from the local community college.
As far as econ, Ohio requires some as well. Most kids in my son’s school get that requirement in SL Government/History of the Americas, which also covers the requirements in what we used to call POD a million years ago.
My son is a STEM kid, which is why I don’t get the IB is not a great option for STEM. His IB curriculum for junior/senior year was HL Chem, Bio, Math and English, SL French, Government/History of the Americas and TOK. Some of the other STEMy kids switch out the second “hard” science for SL Design Tech (which satisfies the fine arts requirement). He satisfied his fine arts requirement writing for the school’s literary magazine and working on stage crew in the spring.
I guess it really depends on the way the program is set up school to school. I get that HL science classes are hugely expensive to set up, but if the only IB science classes are SLs, then why have the program at all? Certainly I get that IB wouldn’t work for the “science nerds” if that was the case.
Another way of stating the issue is that IB can create problems for any student who wants to take more of anything than the standard amount–whether it’s more math, more music, more art, etc. IB fills up a lot of class slots–and in many schools there may be other required courses needed for state graduation requirements, that aren’t part of IB.
My S’ school offers HL for almost all IB classes, but no student is allowed to take them before 11th grade, except for Math pre-HL, which they can take in 10th grade. We only have 6 periods, so ohiodad51’s 7 period schedule won’t work for us. WA state requires 4 years of English, 4 years math, 3 years science, 3 years social studies, 2 years foreign language, 1 year CTE (tech ed), 1 year Fine Arts, 1.5 Year PE, 0.5 Year Health(1 semester), 0.5 Year Civics, 0.5 yr Northwest Studies to graduate from high school. If he does the diploma, he’ll have to do:
11th grade:
IB Math HL
IB American Studies (1st year of English HL)
IB Bio HL
IB Chem HL
IB Foreign Language SL
IB Social Studies SL
12th grade:
IB Math HL 2
IB English HL
IB Bio HL
IB Chem HL
IB Social Studies SL
IB TOK
Which means he’d have to finish up his other requirements by 11th grade - 1.5 yr PE, .5 Health, .5Civics, 3 years Foreign Language starting in 8th grade, 1 yr CTE, 1 yr FA.
If he goes for AP, he can spread it out much better – AP Chem in 10th, AP Bio in 11th, AP Physics in 12th, and free up 1 science period for his other electives.
HL is a year commitment, which for some kids makes it much less flexible.
IB Kids in our high school all take the state mandated health and phys ed during summer school or online (yes, we all laugh about the idea of on-line gym, but it is basically recording work outs and doing quizzes about nutrition etc). And the STEM-y kids get their fine arts done in freshman and sophomore years so their elective can be another science class in 11th and 12th.
While IB is a specific curriculum, the choices available within a specific school vary so yes, depending on the school, there may not be enough range of HL classes of interest for the STEM kid.
Looking at it instrumentally, kids with their eye on top 20 schools need the counselor to say they are in the most demanding curriculum available. If there is no AP, then electing not to do IB is not going to get that coveted “most rigorous curriculum available” box checked.
Has the OP talked to their guidance office about STEM course options beyond the IB curriculum? We know some kids who are taking college math courses (as in, leave school and take it at a nearby college) and, while they are not diploma candidates because they were done with calc early in high school, they are still considered in the “most rigorous curriculum available.”
The OP had mentioned the possibility of transferring – I would be cautious about putting a kid in a new school, as a junior – the academic year when students are supposed to show they have what it takes – there is just so much adjustment for the kid, and even the family, as you learn your way around classes, teachers, the administration.
It iS important for kids to prepare ahead to get rid of nonsense graduation requirements before the diploma. Here, mostly these can be fulfilled by the end of freshman year, on line, test out, summer etc. There is no reason for a jr/sr to be doing anything other than the IB subjects and APs (or +HL math) in any empty slots unless it is for love, EC boost etc.
I am really surprised that your schools have open slots for IB at all. The theory of IB they pitch here is that IB is an all in, immersed curriculum. You pick your classes before junior year and then that is it, the last two years are set. All the classes are two year classes, all the IB kids move in lock step through the program, and pretty much all their classes are with the same kids. I always thought that was the primary purpose, plus the fact that the classes are holistic, meaning they are reading Tale of Two Cities while they are studying the Industrial Revolution, etc. If it is just a more muscular version of AP with a big research project added on, then it seems like there is no real point to it. Strange how the same thing can vary so much school to school. Especially when it is supposed to be an equalizing program with international schools.
On the other hand, in my daughter’s IB program, the SL classes were almost all one year (assuming that you had the appropriate prerequisites from earlier in high school). Even though the school required everyone to take English and History as two of their HLs, there was enormous variation in 11th and 12th grade schedules from kid to kid. They were only in lockstep for English, History, and TOK. I don’t think there was another kid in the class of more than 100 who made exactly the same choices my kid did in terms of her third HL, her sixth subject, and her IB science.
My daughters’ school offered both IB and AP. Most of the SL classes were combined with AP. The class sizes were small. D1 enrolled with IB, pre-IB and did decent. However, the pressure to finish homework and do sports was enormous. Her friends were taking 5 hour energy, red bull or whatever to get by on minimum sleep. She realized by the end of her junior year she couldn’t do another year. She was warned her class ranking would go down and the colleges would not consider her as she would be considered a quitter. She decided sleep was more important. In the end about 25 of the about original 40 completed the program. Today, several of those who completed are at the same college she is currently enrolled. Also to consider as others had said, many schools that she considered didn’t give much weight to either of her IB and. AP courses. And she still doesn’t do energy drinks and gets a full night sleep.
I can only imagine how delighted the kids and teachers here would be to have 6 periods instead of 8 (A,b 4/4),
to do only IB and nothing else. That would be hours extra class time a week compared to the present schedule. It isn’t like the schools can disregard the IB requirements. I think the schools like to keep APs because they know in an either or situation in publics, like as not the IB would be the loser.
Joanne B, I am a former IBHL Biology teacher, IB Coordinator, and 2x IB diploma parent. I also taught AP Biology. I am a huge fan of the IB program. One daughter is now a lawyer, one will be graduating with a BS in Biology and starting medical school in the fall. So it is a program that both a humanities kid and a STEM kid can benefit from. I know teenagers can be headstrong, but one of the benefits of the IB diploma program is that students must take courses in their weaknesses (or at least something they may not like as much) as well as those in their strengths. This is a greater academic challenge than only taking things you like, and is why colleges respect it and schools consider it their most rigorous curriculum if they have it. In addition, your son will have to take humanities for medical school - Psychology and Sociology are on the MCAT now, and some med schools are making these courses a requirement. being good at STEM courses is no longer considered enough to be a good doctor.
Dheldreth, thanks for your input. I appreciate it. It’s hard because I think my son needs all 3 IB HL sciences in high school to properly prepare for pre med, but if he takes IB Physics in addition to IB Chem and IB Bio, plus IB Math HL and IB English HL he will have no time to fit in IB SocStudies plus TOK, since they only have 6 periods. sometimes I think it’s easier with girls. They r just better at sucking up and doing what needs to be done. Boys are so hard headed, at least both of mine are. Getting them to do what they don’t like to do is worse than asking them to give blood!
If it is a question of preparation for college, then in my opinion, he would be better off taking the IB track and skipping IB Physics since most serious physics he will take in college will be calculus based and IB Physics (along with AP Physics I believe) is algebra based. Not entirely sure how much a couple years of algebra based physics helps prepare you for college. On the other hand, IB will help him develop his analytical skills, his writing and as someone said up the thread force him to pay attention to serious classes outside his comfort zone. All of these are valuable skills for college, obviously.
I’m not sure this is true. He certainly does need at least a high school course in each of the three sciences, but does he really need IB HL in all three? What do other parents of IB students who aspire to medical careers think?
At my daughter’s IB school, there were students who intended to become doctors. The school only offered SL chemistry, not HL. The students coped somehow.
My son is flirting with the premed track. He took honors Physics as a sophomore and HL Chem and Bio in IB. No one has told him that he will be disadvantaged next year. He also has a pretty good friend at Hopkins who is pre med and was an IB kid last year. As far as I know, that guy felt well prepared for his first year of college. I am pretty sure he took HL Bio and SL physics last year as a senior but could be wrong.
In D’s IB For All school, you choose six classes, three SL and three HL, but you get to choose. She is taking HL Bio, HL Math, and HL Spanish, with standard levels in history, english, and business. She completed the Latin SL sequence last year (a year early) so had to fit a class in that slot and had a choice of business or psych. Of course, all students take TOK as well.
“. sometimes I think it’s easier with girls. They r just better at sucking up and doing what needs to be done” - Perhaps that is true as a generalized rule. But at our house we had the flip situation.
Or mine, with two boys, one who follows his own path and the other who does what is expected (more or less). Only, with time, first has become remarkable at getting the job done, and someday, I suspect, second will push those boundaries.
You do not need to take IB HL sciences in Chem, Bio and Physics to be ready for pre-med. Take Bio and Chem but as long as you have some physics you will be ready for college physics.
