<p>I have a choice of either going to a highschool with IB program or a highschool that offers a lot of AP classes and opportunities to be in national level math competitions. My question is which program (IB or AP/math competition) will be weighted more in Ivy League admission? Thank you for any suggestions you may have.</p>
<p>Colleges look for students taking the most rigorous courses at their school. </p>
<p>I think the real question is which one will YOU like better?</p>
<p>Which course IB or AP is considered more rigorous? I want to be in a program that better prepares me to get accepted to top university.</p>
<p>That depends on to whom you talk, how good the implementation of each program is, how good the teachers are, and so on.</p>
<p>One public high school in my district which has IB sent my son something to try to get him to enroll there. The high school has a very small IB student population, though a large HS, has very few IB classes so is limited in what IB classes are offered, and has a very low IB diploma pass rate.</p>
<p>Another public high school doesn't offer IB; it has AP in addition to a well-regarded science and tech program which my son is in. Average SAT scores are higher at this school and AP exams have a high passing rate (highest in the school district).</p>
<p>Even if my son were not in the science and tech program, the school he's in now is clearly the better school. The AP implementation is excellent, the staff is very much geared toward college, and many more challenging courses are offered, including math courses beyond calculus. These math courses aren't available at the IB school.</p>
<p>So it really depends. I'd look at the IB diploma passing rate and the AP exam passing rate at both schools. Talk to students at both. Look at the course catalogs at both to see what courses are offered and how many students avail themselves of AP and IB. If one program has few participants, scheduling will be more problematic -- it's likely that a desired/needed course may be offered in just one time slot, and everything else will have to revolve around that. If you like band or choir or art, you may not get to take it if there is little flexibility in scheduling.</p>
<p>I've been an alum interviewer for Harvard, and also have gone to info sections at top colleges. Everything I've seen and heard indicates that colleges regard IB and AP equivalently. What's most important is what the student chooses to do with their IB/AP experiences. For instance, both types of instruction offer excellent chances to pursue one's intellectual passions via research papers.</p>
<p>Some students take lots of advantage of this by doing papers with primary research. Some students choose and knock off their papers however way is easiest to get an "A". Top colleges prefer students who do things the first way that I mentioned.</p>
<p>IB, when implemented well, is an excellent program that offers top-notch preparation for college.</p>
<p>But it's not ideally suited for the student who would like to focus as much attention as possible on one field. </p>
<p>So if, for example, your passion is math, and you're interested in the non-IB school because of the opportunity to participate in math competitions, that may be the better choice for you. </p>
<p>If you do seriously consider the IB program, try to find out as much as you can about it. How large is the program? How much choice of subjects do students have within the program? What proportion of the students get the IB diploma? (There are IB schools were the rate is consistently higher than 90% and others where it is very low.) </p>
<p>One of my kids was in an IB program. She is now in college and thinks that IB provided her with excellent preparation -- much better than that of many of her college classmates. My other kid wouldn't have done IB if you paid him because the program limits your high school course choices, and he wanted to follow his own interests as much as possible.</p>
<p>I posted this in an another forum in response to a similar (actually the exact same) question:</p>
<p>Completing the IB program will absolutely be beneficial in the college admissions process. First of all, it is considerably more strenuous than completing a string of AP classes - but this only applies if you actually go through with the entire program and earn the diploma! And take HL of course. College adcoms will recognize that it took great stamina, intelligence, and determination to earn the IB diploma. This is not to say that AP does not talk stamin, intelligence, and determination, but you simply need more of each fo gain the IB diploma.</p>
<p>Also, having the IB diploma will make you stand out.</p>
<p>Having the IB diploma doesn't make you stand out because you get the diploma the summer after senior year, which is after college admissions decisions are made.</p>
<p>" College adcoms will recognize that it took great stamina, intelligence, and determination to earn the IB diploma. This is not to say that AP does not talk stamin, intelligence, and determination, but you simply need more of each fo gain the IB diploma."</p>
<p>Not true. The academic programs can take the same amount of stamina, etc.</p>
<p>Overall, the AP program is best for those bright students with narrower interests, IB is best for those bright students with broad interests. Top colleges don't prefer one type of student over the other.</p>
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Completing the IB program will absolutely be beneficial in the college admissions process.
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<p>Not necessarily. See my post above.</p>
<p>The public IB high school for my area is an awful school, with a very small IB program (< 20 kids), few courses, and a 0% diploma pass rate. Only one IB language -- Spanish. No HL math. Nothing comparable to the AP school my son attends, which has calculus 3 and differential equations, offers AP Latin, AP Spanish, and AP French and four years of Russian, Italian, and Japanese. (It also three years of ASL.)</p>
<p>IB can be very small and badly implemented; so can AP. It depends on the school. </p>
<p>Both offer good college prep if implemented well. One has to look at the programs offered in each school (and look carefully at the schools, too).</p>
<p>Is it true that you must get passing scores on every subject area tested to receive the IB diploma? My friend's D did the IB program in our local h.s. Foreign Language was her weakest subject. They were so afraid she wouldn't get a passing score on her German exam saying if she did not, she would not be awarded the IB diploma even after doing so well on everything else for four years. Is this true? </p>
<p>The IB program in our area has the reputation of being really tough. It is said the IB students "have no life" outside of IB and required community service work. My friend's D was in marching band and a couple of random clubs but rarely had time to go out on weekends and just hang out with friends. She was never able to make time in her schedule for any kind of part-time job either..again maybe it was just her. Her mother actually begged her to drop the program because it was causing so much stress in their family....due to the D being constantly stressed over so much sch. work.<br>
She did get a full tuition scholarship (because she got the IB diploma) to a small state sch. and recently completed grad. sch. So I guess it served her well in the end.</p>
<p>NorthStarMom:</p>
<p>It is true that you are not awarded the diploma until you have been accepted into colleges, but adcoms still see that you too IB classes and are competing for the diploma. AND one must not forget about predicted scores...students are predicted by the faculty whether or not they will recieve the diploma BEFORE college admissions are sent out. One the argument about not getting the IB Diploma until after decision are out is a weak one anyway; isn't it true that high school diplomas are awarded AFTER decision come out?</p>
<p>AND the IB Diploma will come in very handy when you are competing for research assistantships with college professors, competing for study abroad scholarhsips, wanting to transfer, or applying to medical, law, or graduate school. </p>
<p>Owlice: One should not discredit an IB program because it is housed in a bad school. The IB program at my local public high school is excellent, but the school is terrible. "Regular" students either didn't go to college or went to community colleges or rinky-dink colleges, but the IB students (FROM THE SAME SCHOOL) went on to Dartmouth, UChicago, Wellesley, Emory, Duke, UNC, Vanderbilt, and Stanford.</p>
<p>I think Northstarmom is basically right, that IB programs are better for generalists, and AP programs for specialists, but the other posters are also correct that you need to look at the programs themselves. IB programs are often put in failing schools as a way to improve them or to attact better students. Sometimes the programs are good - sometimes they aren't. There is only one school in our whole county that even has an IB program and it's not very good yet - though it's a lot better than the offerings in most of that particular town's other high schools. Because APs have been around longer, I think more schools have a sense of how to teach the courses. There's no simple answer in the end - colleges aren't going to look at one or the other and prefer one to the other.</p>
<p>In many schools though even the budding math/science types will still end up taking a fair number of humanities and social science APs because those will still be the classes with the strongest students.</p>
<p>The IB Program provides a strong writing emphasis, develops critical thinking skills, promotes sound ethical thought, seeks international understanding, and instills commitment to community service. It also provides greater certainty of college admission, higher SAT scores, a more integrated curriculum, and a higher GPA in the freshman year of college than other students earn, including those who have taken AP courses. (Dr. William Kolb's Study, University of Florida (1996).)</p>
<p>Although you will probably be able to find similar studies regarding AP.</p>
<p>Asa, </p>
<p>I'm not discrediting the IB program in the local IB school just because it's in a bad school. As someone else mentioned, IB is often put into bad schools; I would maintain that it is not always done to make that school better on the whole for the students attending before IB is brought in, but rather, to attract other students to the school, and it is those students who bring up the NCLB stats and therefore make the school look "better" and it's those students who are getting into excellent colleges.</p>
<p>I'm discrediting it also because the IB program is very small and not well implemented. Indeed, they are having to "start it up again," this despite IB having been in that school for over a decade. It wasn't attracting many students -- fewer than 20 in the whole program! If someone is happy with no HL math, only one foreign language, one offering of each IB course of the minimal number offered, and a 0% diploma passing rate, and so on, then sure, one might be very happy in my local IB school.</p>
<p>The school has lousy stats. The IB program in the school has lousy stats. </p>
<p>If a school has great students available to it -- and great students are often imported into lousy schools by the introduction of IB programs -- those students will go on to great colleges. It's not the program; it's the students.</p>
<p>Put IB in a bad school, don't import great students into it, and what do you get? Maybe a 0% diploma passing rate.</p>
<p>My daughter had this same choice. She is an excellent writer, with top critical thinking skills and varied interests. She <em>sounds</em> like she would be perfect for IB but she really didn't like the IB philosophy and she wanted to be able to take AP Chem (HL Chem is not offered in our school). So she worked her way through a ton of AP courses. She was happy. She learned a LOT and I haven't heard one college complain. I say take the one in which you are more interested.</p>
<p>Packmom -- about your passing grade question. This is what I remember from my daughter's experience: you need a 24 to get your diploma. I thought she told me that there was a minimum score on an HL exam, but not SL, and you need the 24 aggregate score. You can earn up to three points with your combination of grades from EE/TOK.</p>
<p>I must also add my comment on school's passing rate. There is a magnet IB program at a local high school. They have a high pass rate because they cherry pick the brightest students in the county. My daughter went to a catholic high score where students are closely scrutinized for admission. They have about a 90+% pass rate with 25ish students in each year. A lot depends on the school and the preparation you get in 9th and 10th grade.</p>
<p>jen928 -- look at the course offerings in both programs. My son would have been extremey unhappy in IB because he's a computer science/math/engineering kind of guy who is now a software engineer. If you love math and see yourself doing multivariable calculus in high school, you might not get that in Math HL. I can't speak for sure because my daughter took Math SL.</p>
<p>With the experience of doing the college admission ordeal with two kids -- IB and a variety of AP are equal. Do what suits you.</p>
<p>In terms of IB diploma scores: 24 is the minimum to pass, and you must get at least a 4 in each of your HL subjects. I believe it is possible to get the diploma with a 3 or 2 in an SL subject, but the student must also have some higher scores in other subjects to balance it out.</p>
<p>Thus, the student with one weak subject should make sure that the school offers that subject SL. If only HL is offered in that subject, the program is probably not well suited for the individual student. (And yes, it is possible for a school to offer a subject only HL. At the IB school my daughter attended, both English and History were only offered HL, and both were required courses. Some other courses, such as Biology, were also offered only HL, while others, such as Chemistry and Psychology, were only offered SL.)</p>
<p>Perhaps the most important point being made in this thread is that if your child has an opportunity to participate in an IB program, you and your child should scrutinize that program carefully. How well do the students do? How prepared are they when they come in? How does the school help them prepare for the IB program (which actually takes place only in 11th and 12th grades) in 9th and 10th grades? What is the diploma pass rate? </p>
<p>There are some truly terrible IB programs out there. But there are also great ones.</p>
<p>New</a> Teen Taunt: You Call Those Advanced Classes? - washingtonpost.com</p>
<p>Great article in the Washington Post on IB, AP and AICE in the DC area. The Post has done many articles on IB. Check out their site for the other articles.</p>
<p>"Perhaps the most important point being made in this thread is that if your child has an opportunity to participate in an IB program, you and your child should scrutinize that program carefully. How well do the students do? How prepared are they when they come in? How does the school help them prepare for the IB program (which actually takes place only in 11th and 12th grades) in 9th and 10th grades? What is the diploma pass rate? "</p>
<p>And also think about your child's interests and needs. IB is a great program for students with broad interests and good talents across academic fields who also enjoy research and lots of writing. IB is not a good program for students who are extremely strong in some academic areas, but very weak in others and/or have deep interests in some academic areas, but little interest in others.</p>
<p>Keep in mind, too, that both AP and IB can open doors to top colleges. What matters most is what the student does in the program, including how they pursue their intellectual passions.</p>
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IB is not a good program for students who are extremely strong in some academic areas, but very weak in others and/or have deep interests in some academic areas, but little interest in others.
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<p>This is probably the most important aspect to take into consideration when comparing IB and AP. I'm "good" at academics in general but have little interest in anything that isn't Social Studies (and more recently French). The material covered in IB is so strenuous that without an interest in the subject (or an interest in getting into colleges :p) it's hard to do well. I've personally seen lack of interest translate into a pattern of bad grades in certain classes.</p>
<p>However IB definitely develops you into a more well rounded person and helps find those hidden passions.</p>