Hi all!
So I’ve got a pretty trying matter on my hands - today I was accepted to NYU Tisch, my dream school. This is the first and only BFA acceptance I’ve received. However, I of course didn’t receive any institutional grants/scholarship, and the tuition as it stands is completely impossible (would not be able to get loans approved) - especially because my parents will not be contributing to my college education and I have to take out all the loans myself.
I have several other great options that would consist of a BA in theatre that gave me great aid (Wellesley, Sarah Lawrence, Barnard of Columbia, Vassar…) and consistently all gave me ~50k a year in institutional grants/aid (and many of these schools are equally if not more academically selective than NYU)! I could see myself happy at these schools (Especially because they have great English programs which I’m looking at for a double major) but NYU is my only BFA option at this point, and I want to be able to pursue acting intensively just as much as my academics.
Do you think it would be feasible to make an appeal and successfully get any money from them? I knew NYU was stingy, but getting no help at all was a harsh blow. I just wondered if anyone had experience bargaining with colleges about financial aid, if that was possible with NYU in particular, or any general words of the wise when doing so? Should I just drop it and go somewhere I can afford?
Definitely try to appeal to NYU. No idea if you’ll have any luck. But in terms of entertainment industry connections, fear not with your admit to Sarah Lawrence – that’s some seriously connected alumni right there. You could major in theatre there (or whatever they call majors at SL) and seriously work every network / connection you could find and be near NYC for Broadway and internships and other opportunities. Just sayin’. But yes, definitely appeal NYU – gotta know you tried.
I agree with the idea of the appeal - because what can it hurt? BUT, if it doesn’t work out, if you have to take the loans for yourself, and you have much better financials at other schools- I would recommend going with one of them. Still- congrats on the acceptance!!
Here’s a suggestion…go to the college you can afford and that you love. If after your first year you feel you are not getting the intensive acting training you were hoping for use the savings you would have from not attending NYU and enroll in a summer acting intensive. (My daughter did this and it was phenomenal).
I was JUST GOING TO SUGGEST what @Bisouu wrote above and cite her example! I think it is a smart and excellent way to have it all especially given the phenomenal BA options you have.
@GraceMarie88, I assume you did submit the CSS Profile and FAFSA when you applied. NYU Financial Aid just went through an extensive review of your family’s resources. Sadly there are no, non-need related scholarships and grants in Tisch Drama. Financial aid bases their need decisions on the family resources so unfortunately they will not consider the fact that your parents are not going to help you. They only care about whether or not they could. You can appeal but in my experience you will be pointed to a form which asks you to explain how your financial circumstances have changed which would include things like loss of job, serious illness with accompanying medical bills, divorce etc. If you have none of those things or if nothing else is different from their very recent evaluation, you need to prepare yourself for nothing to change for you. I know it is disappointing.
As a student, you cannot borrow your way into paying for NYU as the cost will exceed the limit you can borrow. Your parents would have to borrow the rest and it sounds like that is not their plan. So I think Bisouu is on to something.that you will never regret. You have gotten amazing acceptances with grants at those other schools. I think you are sitting very much in the catbird seat.
Schools WILL consider that your parents won’t be contributing to your college education if you can prove it or a reason for it. If you live with one parent who is barely making ends meet and the other parent just refuses to kick in a dime or even fill out any forms, and you have someone, such as a minister or principal who knows this, they can write a letter and submit it to the school’s financial aid office for you. In some cases, there are extreme mitigating circumstances and a student is unable to get info from one or even both parents. I’ve seen teachers, administrators religious professionals and even law enforcement and officials of the court (in cases where a parent was abusive) step up and assist in vouching for students in this matter.
This happened to my older D in the visual arts. She got into her dream art school, RISD, but they offered her only loans, no grants. We did appeal, but they wouldn’t budge. That was that. She ended up at Williams, a top liberal arts college that gave her a generous need based grant, graduated in art, and now is in a rigorous post grad arts program in Italy. It all turned out well
I agree with what everyone is writing. Definitely appeal. It can’t hurt. But if they don’t match what the other schools offer, then go to the top choice of your other schools–All, of them are terrific. I mean, Barnard is right in NYC and has many opportunities. There have been several successful actor grads from there. But honestly all your choices are terrific, so if you end up not being able to go to NYU, visit each of the other schools and see which one best matches your needs. It’s wonderful you have these choices.
If your FAFSA and CSS Profiles reflected family income and your parents will not be contributing, I would definitely contact Financial Aid at NYU. Most schools have a way to “appeal” financial aid decision and submit additional documentation for reconsideration.
@MTMom98, you are probably saying this already, but just as clarification: schools consider loans to be financial aid. So some schools will cover your need entirely or mostly with a loan offer. This is in fact what they did with my D at RISD. This was actually at a point in my life when our EFC was 0. Their offer would have required a loan of around $50,000/year; it was impossible.
Sadly, there is no guarantee that any college will match what Profile and FAFSA suggest. Some colleges do make a commitment to no or low debt, but others choose not to, or don’t have a large enough endowment to. Also if parents won’t be contributing, that has no bearing on the school’s decision, unless the student is legally emancipated. The OP doesn’t say she is legally emancipated; if she is, though, the school will have already taken that into consideration in her FAFSA and Profile submissions.
It never hurts though to contact financial aid and appeal. She should feel free to mention what other schools are offering for her, and see if Tisch will match, and if they require additional documentation. That will be up to Tisch.
Absolutely appeal especially if for example you have reasons that you didn’t include with your application similar to the example that mezzo’smama mentioned above. Those are the sort of things that form I mentioned would ask about and could prove worthy of a second look. But if the underlying reasons are more philosophical in nature (as in no way do they want to pay that much for college and who can blame them), that is unlikely to work as a reason for Tisch. Other schools have much more flexibility in a negotiation because they have no need (merit or talent) related grants to work with. Tisch just does not.
You have some great options there in BA programs! Barnard?? My D’s BA dream school (she was wait listed), Vassar, Sarah Lawrence??? All very strong in good locations. So don’t fret about NYU if you can’t make it work financially. Good luck!
So, we talked to Financial Aid… and no dice. They admitted that I had more need than was reflected in my offer, but that their hands were tied and that everything was pretty much locked in. A formal appeal would only get me about 5k more, and I’d have to re-appeal every semester. When we tried to bargain and mention my other offers, they said that those are hard opportunities to come by and told my dad that he needed to ‘have a conversation with me’ and encourage me to attend one of my other options.
Going back to something @bisouu touched on…
I’m feeling kind of lost, because I feel like there’s this stigma that if you don’t get a BFA, you can’t really do the acting thing professionally/full out because you won’t be able to compete with other people who have that intensive training under their belt. I’ve always had the understanding that a BA program is preparing you for a different kind of future (just smaller scale things, not necessarily 100% focusing on acting training, perhaps dabbling in directing or writing or production, etc) rather than the ‘moving to New York and hitting the pavement’ kind of thing.
I was okay with that when I wasn’t getting accepted to any BFAs because I thought maybe the talent wasn’t there. But now that that possibility is there, it feels wrong to turn it down. I know people say it’s possible to piece together training at BA program, supplement with workshops and things outside of school, etc and get the same overall experience…
But part of me is also just wondering if I’m not going the BFA path, if I should focus more on my pursuits with English and realistically not expect much otherwise. Am I going to struggle to get seen and have opportunities or a career in acting because I won’t have the BFA under my belt? For some reason I’m just really caught up in that in my mind, and saying no to Tisch feels like I’m having to abandon my dreams altogether. I know that’s illogical, but I’m just trying to be realistic about things and know what I’m getting myself into… Thoughts? Anyone have experience with the BA path who could give me some insight and alleviate my irrational fears?
And, after going through the whole conversation, my parents have offered to cosign for the loans/help me pay for them if we could get them approved. So it’s not completely out of the question yet. But it’s just SO MUCH MONEY - and they would probably have to undergo some lifestyle changes to make this happen. And then I’m under even more pressure to succeed, because if I don’t I know my family is losing out on their investment. I’ve just read so many horror stories about having too much debt from school that they couldn’t pay off. I’m not really sure where to turn! Part of me just feels like I have to go to NYU and take the chance because my heart is in it, but the logical side of me says absolutely not, no way - and my almost full tuition offers are such a blessing and too hard to say no to.
It is not your degree or school that will get you a job! It is your audition that will get you the job and as time goes by, say 5 years after graduation, no one is looking at where you went to school, they are looking at what you have done and your audition. There are a lot of successful performers who have NO college education while others have all types of degrees - BAs, BFAs, BMs, or even non theatre degrees. A BA program that is performance based will give you training. Review the curriculum to see that it has what you are looking for and remember that you can always augment that training (take extra dance classes, voice lessons, etc.) if you need to.
I think BA programs, like BFA programs, are all very different. The BA programs of which I think you are speaking (Barnard, Sarah Lawrence, Wellesley, Columbia, Vassar) are incredible opportunities. First, realize, there are hundreds of students who wish they were in your shoes right now. Acceptances to those schools are something to be very, very proud of. And the fact that you also are receiving aid which makes them more affordable is yet another feather in your cap.
Some points to ponder: NYU is a fantastic school but it is not the holy grail. Not everyone who graduates from NYU with a BFA has a successful performing career. It is not a given even if you do figure out a way to afford it. There is no guarantee if you found the way to pay for NYU that you would have a successful performing career upon graduation.
Counterpoint: Just because you attend a BA program does not mean you don’t have a chance at being a successful performer. As has been seen on cast list after cast list from recent Broadway shows and national tours, there are successful performers from all sorts of schools and programs or some from no programs at all. You can be successful no mater what school you attend.
We have a friend who turned down the BFA at Carnegie Mellon to get a BA at Harvard. She is still going to pursue a professional performing career. To me, you are in a similar position.
I have to say, in this instance, I would encourage you to reconsider the schools to which you have been given great aid. They are all fantastic options. And there must have been a reason you applied to them in the first place. You can still study acting, voice and dance. And you get the luxury of exploring other subjects as part of your liberal arts degree. Also, most offer you a great location in or near NYC which makes taking things like more specific or advanced voice, dance and acting classes available to you if you feel you aren’t getting enough at school. And with the money you will be saving on tuition, you just may have the funds to do some outside classes if time allows.
Congratulations to you on such wonderful options and for being awarded such wonderful merit aid. There are many, many people who would be thrilled to have the choices you have. Good luck in your decision making.
Listen to your logical side. I work in finance. Do NOT take the loans.
A wise music teacher once told my D, success is not about the school name or my name, it’s about you. And YOU will be burdened with debt. You’ll leave NYU with a ball and chain on your leg that will greatly stifle your future. Look at the cost of paying those loans back on a monthly basis when you graduate. And look at your possible income. It does not add up. I’m so sorry to be blunt. But I’m not involved emotionally here.
Allow yourself to mourn your dream school for a week (you’re not alone) and then start falling in love with your next choice. When you graduate without crushing debt you will thank yourself.
YES @bridgenail perfectly said. Many successful actors don’t even go to college so the letters on your degree or lack there of do not matter. You have some amazing choices here. You can’t go wrong.
Please don’t put your parents or yourself in debt for this. We know a very famous actor (two Tony awards) who thinks BFA programs can be a mistake. He thinks people who want to be actors should immerse themselves in the liberal arts: psychology, sociology, philosophy etc… Learn about people and the world, not just technique. He didn’t attend a BFA; he has a BA in History - from one of your schools that has offered you big money. I agree with what has been said: grieve the loss and go to one of these other schools. Learn about the world and take acting classes too. You have a wonderful opportunity to set yourself up for great things.
Look at the schools that have accepted you - and have offered you $50K a year to attend! I know that at least 2 of them have student productions directed by NY people whose work you have heard of.
If your parents take out the loans, by the time you graduate the INTEREST payment alone (on $200K) will be $750/ month; repayments will be on the order of $1000/month- for 360 months: 30 YEARS. That should scare the pants off you. Especially when you have genuinely good choices.
ps, Lisa Kudrow graduated with a BA in Biology from one of those colleges, and it doesn’t seem to have hurt her career any…
