Hey y’all, I just wanted to get some opinions on this because I’m literally having a breakdown over it lol
So I have a 4.8 weighted GPA, over 200 community service hours, taken 8 APs and passed all of them, national awards for my creative writing, a community service project involving essay tutoring/editing, etc. etc… My ECs are good and I’m valedictorian at my school, so it’s led me to applying to Harvard and Stanford.
But my SAT score is devastingly low for Ivy League. A 1310… I’m taking it again in a week but I feel like I’m not going to reach my goal of getting into the 1400s. My reading is 720 but my math remains stubbornly at 590. And 1400s are even low for Ivy League too!! My parents keep saying since I’m an English/creative writing major the math doesn’t matter, but I’m fairly sure it does.
However, I think it’s too late for me to back out of applying. I’ve signed up for subject tests in November, gotten my recommendations, and sent my transcripts… would it be a waste for me to back out? Or is it not even worth trying at this point?
I’d just like some advice. I have a healthy mix of reach, safety, and match, but I really want to leave Florida, and for that I need to go to a school with a financial aid policy comparable to Ivies. Any suggestions for comparable schools that might me more worthwhile for me, if Harvard and Stanford are a waste? And any advice regarding my SAT score? I’ve been looking at Princeton’s 1400+ course for December but it’s so expensive that idk if I’d be able to afford it.
I guess that my main question is: Do you have solid safeties that you know that you will be accepted to, you know you can afford, that have a good program in your intended major, and that you would be happy to attend?
If you have solid safeties, then everything else is like extra sprinkles on your ice cream. Assuming that you have your safeties lined up, then do your best, apply to Harvard and Stanford, and do not worry about it.
Of course there are some small schools (typically liberal arts colleges) that are SAT-optional, or even that do not look at SAT scores at all. You could consider applying to some test optional schools as alternatives. Bowdoin and Williams are two great ones that are approximately in our neck of the woods. You would want to run the NPC first to see whether they are likely to be affordable (for us the NPC results were not encouraging).
If you want to apply to one or two major reach schools that is your prerogative, but your standardized test scores will likely sink your application unless there is significant improvement (especially in math). I expect your standardized test scores are below the 25th percentile for Ivy schools which will make your odds of admission slim (unless you have a major hook such as being a recruited athlete, the child of a huge donor etc. which doesn’t sound like the case).
Be sure to create an application list that includes match and safety schools that appear affordable (run net price calculators – a school that appears unaffordable cannot be considered a match or a safety) and that you would be excited to attend.
There are literally thousands of amazing colleges and universities out there. I suggest you get your hands on some good college guide books (ex. Fiske, Princeton Review) and start reading. If your SATs don’t go up you may want to consider some test optional colleges https://www.fairtest.org/university/optional/state
You sound like a terrific student…but I agree that those objective measures make the Ivy League a very long shot. I also question why you would want Harvard and Stanford, both of which are absolutely amazing schools (my sister went to Stanford and loved it!), but neither of which are the first schools that pop into my head when I think English/creative writing.
Depending on whether you want a big school or a small school, there are tons of places you could look. The list below is from 5 years ago, but it is not a bad starting place. And the good news is that there are some schools on that list that are TOTALLY accessible with a 1310 SAT, and obviously even more with a 1400 SAT. Some are even test optional, like Sarah Lawrence College.
What did you do about your foreign language? If you want to take a shot for the stars, it is OK, but you need to have good safeties. But if you decided to apply to a mega reach, get everything else done first.
" my goal of getting into the 1400s." Yup, too low. And when applying to tippy tops, ANY kid should know it’s not the total, it’s the M and CR, individually. And what the 75th percentile is. And if you’re just now taking Sat 2s, it’s mighty late.
Not to mention that “passing” AP tests isn’t it. Did you get 5 scores? Are all your AP classes the rigorous cores or you threw in some of the fluffy ones, to build the count?
So how did you select these targets? Do you know enough about what they expect? You can apply anywhere you want. But they only take the kids THEY want.
And we haven’t even discussed what sorts of ECs you need, for H or S.
@Eeyore123 oh boy, you remember my thread about foreign language? xD I ended up taking it of course. Thinking back on it, it was stupid of me to even consider not taking a language.
@Booklvr I mainly got interested in Harvard and Stanford because of the amazing financial aid and employment outlook. Harvard would also give me flexibility to explore the humanities, and Stanford has a great school attitude that I vibe with… I’ve always considered them super reach schools, but I guess I thought I had at least a little bit of a chance xD
Thank you to everyone else for the advice and links! I’ll definitely look to expanding my college list. As for the safeties and match and all that, here’s the colleges I’m currently applying to, if it provides some context:
FIU
Florida State University
University of Florida
University of Miami? (still researching their english dep so it’s a maybe)
SCAD
Ringling College of Art & Design
School of the Art Institute of Chicago
NYU
And, of course, Harvard and Stanford ?
@lookingforward yeah, I know my choices do seem stupid xD I’ve just always been told that testing scores are “just one piece of the admissions puzzle”, you know? I researched and thought I had the grades, ECs, and essay for Ivies, just not the SAT score. Hearing stories about people admitted to Ivies with SATs below the 1500s also encouraged me.
I wouldn’t say my decisions are the result of not knowing what the school wanted—they’re the result of (misplaced?) optimism and hoping my other accomplishments make up for a bad math score ??♀️ I understand that there’s a lot more that goes into the application.
Have you run the NPC on NYU, and for that matter for all of the out of state schools on your list? Are any of the schools that you are applying to test optional?
May I suggest looking at Colgate University? Its medium size liberal arts school with great academic curriculum, great alumni network and they give generous grants especially next year as they will start their no loan initiative plan of no federal loans.
For you, OP, I’m more concerned you “researched” the colleges, but maybe only to the point of learning why you want them. Not what they look for and what makes them want you.
Grades yes. But the nature of the competition is so ridiculously fierce, that you’ll be competing among kids with all the rigor, top AP scores. and top SAT M and CR or ACT subscores. And then, their ECs.
What makes them want you is more than Val, weighted gpa (what’s the unweighted?,) and the count of service hours. (And is it real community service or random volunteer things?) But the scores need to be there.
Apply if you wish, but be realistic. Take a breath andsee it as giving it a shot.
Look at the CDS (or on the admissions website) reports on stats of students, see where you hit the 75th percentile in scores. At Colgate, eg, mentioned above, the 75th percentile of applicants is 1520.
@cherryboyy , in addition to the Ivies, there are dozens of universities that guarantee full-tuition assistance to students accepted for enrollment. Some require student loans to balance out the debt, while others will cover any amount above what they deem your family capable of paying.
This means that if your goal is to get a high-quality education outside of Florida and not incur massive debt, you have dozens of options outside of the Ivy League (and Stanford and MIT, etc.)
Google/Bing/search “100 Full Need Colleges”. You’ll find many appropriate options for students with your grades and test scores.
It would be hard to get into any top tier schools without high 600s in math. You should re-take the SAT or maybe take the ACT. Test scores are just part of the puzzle, but to get admitted you need them to all fit.
Hmm, thanks for all the advice, everyone, but I don’t think I’m looking to apply to any test-optional schools. I don’t think a 1310 is really low enough to warrant going test-optional (it’s pretty decent considering the average for my ethnicity is 900)… and I’m retaking in October and December so hopefully with lots of prep I can get into the 1400s I’m looking at some more accessible but selective schools like Barnard to add to my list too.
@DadTwoGirls NYU isn’t exactly great for financial aid but I’m applying to a lot of outside scholarships to try and balance it out. I used the NPC for all the colleges on my list before deciding to apply and made sure that they all could give me some form of aid/scholarship.
@lookingforward Trust me, I know how competitive Harvard is ? I never said I was expecting admission, and had always viewed it as just taking the chance (harv and stanford are my two reach REACH schools). I was only really having a breakdown over it because I wouldn’t be happy to go to any of my safety/super affordable schools, but expanding my list to have more affordable match schools has eased my nerves a bit.
Your SAT scores are garbage – sorry but that’s the truth. And the fact that they still remain garbage even after you’ve tried to bring them up means that your “great GPA” most likely came from a diploma mill high school.
In other words, either bring up your SAT scores or you have no chance at any decent school – unless you’re a victim minority who can get in through affirmative action.
You seem like you have decided on your list, but just for the record: test optional does NOT mean less than prestigious and awesome school! The test optional list includes University of Chicago, Wesleyan University, and Smith College.
These are AMAZING schools.
Test optional is the perfect solution for someone who has great credentials…except for standardized test scores.
Plenty of kids with perfect stats get rejected so best to expand your safety schools list (and ones you can afford without relying on potential scholarships that may not pan out - i.e. NYU, which is hard to get in anyways). Look into LACs/the sister colleges/Colleges That Change Lives. Best of luck!
@cherryboyy - given that you have safeties on your list that you are presumably willing to attend – there’s no harm in applying to high reaches or long shot schools.
And all colleges will look at your SAT scores “in context” – that means they will consider your ethnicity and the demographics of the school you come from along with everything else. And it also does mean in context with your area of interest.
Colleges do admit students whose test scores are at the bottom quartile as well as at the top. In fact, for any measure, 25% of enrolling students have scores in the bottom quartile. My daughter graduated summa cum laude from Barnard, and her math SAT was 580.
But the point is that the colleges admit students who are offering something attractive to them. If you don’t have the scores, then there needs to be other factors in the application that make the case.
So yes, these colleges are reaches and odds are that you won’t get in – but that doesn’t mean that you have no chances at all. The downside is that you have financial limitations and application fees get expensive – so you might want to limit your reach applications to the two or three schools where you have the best shot, unless you are able to get application fee waivers.
Way back when, my daughter wanted to apply to Brown but I refused to pay the application fee. I was happy to pay for colleges where I thought she had a shot, but I didn’t see it at Brown. She was able to get a fee waiver and did apply, and was – as anticipated – rejected.
I understand the value of looking for schools with generous financial aid policies – but you need to be able to articulate why you think the school will accept you over all the other class valedictorians with impressive credentials and even higher test scores. What do you offer that all those other students don’t?
I agree with previous poster that test optional schools are a great option for you. You’re right that you can get into great schools with a 1310, but with your other credentials you can get into TOP schools if you focus on the test optionals.
I think you are wasting time and energy on Harvard and Stanford.
Last year there was a poster on here that had a similar story as far as low scores go but frankly had a much better life story, in fact an amazing life story. Denied at Stanford accepted at UChicago. The English department at UChicago is ranked #1 ahead of Stanford, Columbia and all the other Ivies, if you care about that. My thoughts are he didn’t make it past the initial look at Stanford due to his low SAT score (1300ish), but as a test optional applicant at UChicago, his thorough look got him accepted.
I’m looking at some more accessible but selective schools like Barnard to add to my list too.