Are Computer Science in A&S considered second class citizens at Boulder?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Colorado
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My son has been accepted in the A&S at CU Boulder. He want’s to study Computer Science & is possibly interested in double majoring/minoring in music, linguistics and/or math. He did not apply for Engineering.

Anyone know if the A&S CS kids are considered second class citizens in the CS program? What I mean is do they have low priority for registering for the CS classes and thus difficulty getting the classes they need? We are from CA and I know this can be an issue at Berkley which has a similar situation.

My son will be attending Accepted Students day and can ask this question at that time. But I was trying to get an outsiders view.

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I don’t know about registration for CS classes.

. I do know that the bar for admissions to A&S is a lot lower than CU Engineering.
Many A&S majors try to transfer after one year to CU Engineering and many are not able to transfer in. So I assume there is some reason to want to transfer in, but for CS majors you can be in either college.

Try to fund a current student when you are here. PM me, I know a lot of kids in CS over there, I may be able to help you. Some are in Engineering and one senior I know stayed in Arts and Sciences and got the CS major there.

There is a bachelor of arts degree in CS now. That requires less CS and is a more general liberal arts type of degree.

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@curiositycat333 The College of Music is really very strong at CU Boulder, and lots of kids do double major but performance majors will struggle to get through in four years, and double major. Especially on strings or piano, its really rigorous, the performance music major. The Music education major is less demanding. Math is totally outstanding at CU Boulder, as is physics. CS a tad weaker, but coming up the curve with a new Google presence in Boulder and Oracle and other software firms located in Broomfield, about 15 miles south of Boulder. Physics is top twenty because of JILA , which is a joint research institute with NIST, the National Institute of Standards. Lots of research options in math and physics. Engineering also offers an applied mathematics degree that is very strong and easier to double major with Music, as its not as rigorous as some other majors for requirements. (but he would have to transfer to engineering, I think to study applied mathematics )

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@curiositycat333 The performance music and voice majors at CU require an audition for admission. So he will have to audition once he is in Boulder if he wants to major in performance music at CU Boulder.

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@Coloradomama Thanks.

I did read a lot about the difference between the A&S & Engineering (BA. vs BS) major online on their web-site. But it’s the online official information. It doesn’t tell you important details like the if the A&S major is taken seriously by the faculty. If courses are harder to get enrolled into.

One question, is it difficult for students to enroll is the classes they want in general at CU Boulder? This is a huge issue at a lot of CA schools, and thus it’s a common question around here.

As for double majoring in music, I doubt he wants to double major in performance. Music would likely only be a minor. He wants to play in the marching band & my understanding is that shouldn’t be a problem. (I’ve been told that anyone who marched in H.S. should be able to walk on except flag & drumline.) I think he wants to take a few classes in music like theory, a few in linguistics and see if a minor or double major would be interesting to pursue.

Thanks for the offer of trying to hook him up with some students. But I am sending him on his own to admit day and it’s not going to work to connect him with any but the friend who is going to put him up. He is a bit too independent for that.

He is in at a few other schools. Two defiantly IN their CS program. Don’t want to decide on Boulder and afterwards find out he’s struggling to get classes in his chosen major.

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@curiositycat333

I do not think the faculty distinguish or care which college a student in their class is part of, A&S or Engineering.
In fact, many majors in A&S such as physics, outranks all engineering majors, if you care about ranks. Engineering college is well ranked though.

Note here the two sets of students, A&S and Engineering college, are mixed into the same CS classes:
http://www.colorado.edu/cs/current-students/undergraduate-students/ba-degree

The only thing to be aware of , he will earn the BA degree, no matter how many CS classes he takes, even if
he takes enough to earn a BS, if he stays in the Arts and Sciences college. He may want to transfer, perhaps,
but it may not matter, again, see that the classes are IDENTICAL, so I do not see why he needs to transfer unless he just really wants a BS degree.

No professor is going to track which college individual students are enrolled in, classes are lecture style
and no one will care about that.

(The math sequence may be different though depending on exactly which major he selects, Engineering calculus versus calculus is slightly different)

CU Boulder will not shut him out of a computer science major. CS is growing but not over crowded yet.
No majors are “impacted” at CU Boulder, the school actively looks for students from OOS and international students to fill up any major. And the school is increasing in size and hiring faculty in engineering and CS.

Colorado has many in state options that are equally affordable to CU Boulder so Boulder actually has plenty of room.

The only restriction would be if he wanted to major in computer engineering, he would have to transfer to College of Engineering , here is the process:
http://www.colorado.edu/engineering-advising/transfer-within-cu

CU Boulder registration is not very difficult I have heard. Some students do enroll in summer school as its so inexpensive for in state. I don’t know how that works for out of state students, you could check on that. There is May Semester (one class , in three weeks)

http://www.colorado.edu/summer/courses/3-week-intensives/maymester

and Summer Semester, so two shots at taking summer classes. There is also a state rule or law that says undergraduates at CU should have classes available to finish in four years, I don’t know how well that is enforced, but I think that means you cannot be shut out of a class that is REQUIRED for your bachelors degree. You may be shut out of art history, or say tuba performance, if you are not a major or minor in those subjects .

I taught one semester at CU in Chemical Engineering as an adjunct and I was allowed to increase the size of my class on my own and I did that. Students emailed me asking, and I told each one, yes, they could register. That was ten years ago now, but I suspect that had not changed. So the class was supposed to be capped at 60 but I increased the size to 70 students. I believe that is still how it works , so teacher discretion allows more kids into a class, and CU will give the class a larger lecture hall if needed. This may not hold in the College of Arts and Sciences. Sorry I cannot be more helpful. My own children are not at CU, so I don’t have personal information about the registration process, but not hearing any complaining from my son’s friends. Most are in the college of Engineering, though. Music is small and easy to register if you are a major. I am not certain how it works for minors, I would ask about that. Majors are going to have preference over minors or nonmajors in the College of Music.

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@Coloradomama Thanks a bunch. This is exactly the information I was trying to find and failing everywhere I asked. The friend who is going to put up my son has found a professor of CS who is willing to talk to them about the school when he’s there. Just have to find a time that will work.

At this time my son doesn’t really care about an engineering degree. He really doesn’t care about BA vs BS. Honestly at one of the other schools he is applying the difference between the two is to get a BA you have to take a foreign language. He would like to take math that is more abstract, theory and proofs anyway. Interested in linguistics and natural language processing. (I’m amused because this is what I did in the 90’s.)

It’s good to know the classes and major are not capped. It’s one of the frustrations with the University of California schools. It can be so hard to get the classes you need sometimes and end up with extra semesters or years because of it. Honestly except for price CU Boulder seems to have everything my son wants in a school. But it’s the most expensive of his acceptances. Those OOS fee’s are steep. Trying to decide if it’s worth the money. If my son can graduate in 4 years, play in the marching band, hike in the mountains, and makes friends he will be happy.

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@curiositycat333 what are his in state choices? In Colorado I would tell you that we would feel it would be a huge mistake to turn down UCSD, UCLA, or Berkeley to attend CU especially in CS. If its Davis, then I think they are equal, approximately. UCLA is a tough school for CS as is UCSD or Berkeley. They are just super tough compared to CU Boulder, but CU Boulder does offer some research options and a very good faculty and as you point out, a good lifestyle. I think its going to be easier academically to get As and to get through a BA at CU than most U of Cal options. Davis is slightly easier academically, to earn As, than the other three I mentioned. If its Santa Cruz, then I don’t know. I don’t care for Santa Cruz, but thats me. It was not an engineering focused school, in the beginning, but its beefed up lately. San Diego is now a very serious and academically challenging school for all sciences including CS. It will be a much different academic experience compared to Boulder. Happiness is worth a lot though. Boulder as a city and a college, is a small place compared to the three powerhouse Cal schools. CU Boulder is growing and changing all the time though, and the Engineering college is trying to double in size, but that will take time. So there is active faculty hiring in Boulder. He will get a good education in Boulder.

I expect the rank of Boulder will go up over time, so his network and alumni status , the degree will mean something.
Any of the Cal schools, also will be strong on the resume.

Most really top high school students in Colorado, that earned an IB diploma
or about 8 to 10 AP classes, find CU Boulder moderately easy for the first year. They ease kids in nicely and allow for freshman transition period. After that, it can get tough quickly depending on major and exactly what classes he takes. There is a full PhD program in CS so there will be plenty of classes to pick from.

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@curiositycat333 pure math is quite strong at Boulder I would say, as is physics. All the humanities including linguistics, not certain. Humanities is neglected overall in all schools in Colorado, except maybe Colorado College, whch is a private college. Music though is a shining star in Boulder. Its conservatory level on keyboards and strings. Not as certain about woodwinds and brass. Boulder is arguably the best music program in the state. Physics and math–Boulder for certain top in our state. Engineering? I would say Colorado School of Mines is better. Computer Science? U of Cal schools are just so strong, it would be hard to go to Boulder, unless he is truly interested in a liberal arts degree, and he cannot do that at the Cal he got into.

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My son’s in state UC is UC Santa Cruz. He didn’t get into Davis & didn’t try Berkley or UCLA. (Nor did he want those schools) Santa Cruz isn’t bad for what he wants to study. I would rank CU Boulder higher for CS. But as an undergrad it probably doesn’t make a huge difference.

Big thing is there is no marching band at UC Santa Cruz. Otherwise it would be great. He really wants a school where he is close to wilderness & hiking and both of these schools work well for this.

His other top choices are UofO and Oregon State.

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@curiositycat333 I worked for Hewlett Packard, so I know Oregon State. (HP Fort Collins’ sister organization is in Corvallis) Oregon State has a program where the student takes two years of general education, the applies to the engineering program, say mechanical or computer engineering, only after he/she passes the first two years of classes.

I think CU Boulder is probably better than Oregon State in that you know your student will be able to get a computer science major from the beginning. But Oregon State benefits greatly from the Hewlett Packard engineering community in Corvallis, and visa versa.

Oregon State is small and personal. Corvallis is a very supportive community. It is 90 miles to the airport in Portland OR so thats a bit of a trek. Perhaps you can drive though.

Boulder is a good community as well, bigger than Corvallis with much more hiking and good venues for theatre, music, and easy access to Denver and the International airport. We have good bussing to and from our airport.
DIA offers a direct train to Union Station in Denver too. There are busses from Union Station directly to the CU Boulder campus.

I agree Santa Cruz is not quite as good at Boulder for CS and most engineering subjects.

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I was in the same exact situation, from California, interested in marching band, and deciding between a BA at CU Boulder or a BS at U of Oregon. I was also looking at Oregon State but I wanted to be in the CS major from the start. Does anyone have any comments on the difference between the UO and CU Boulder CS programs? I like CU Boulder because the CS program has more electives and a capstone. I am worried though, that I will have to compete with engineering students for classes. I will try to transfer to engineering to get the BS, but I have ben told it is nearly impossible especially for someone not in pre-engineering.

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The U of Oregon location, Eugene, is very nice place to live but like Corvallis, not on the ocean, a bit of a drive to the coast. I think CU Boulder may be academically better as you can take a few engineering classes to round out your CS major, and CU offers an outstanding applied math program. I think overall CU Boulder has slightly better programs in physics, applied physics, and CS. Boulder is a larger city, and Oracle, Google, and many other software firms have located in Colorado, for jobs later. Fort Collins and Colorado Springs jobs are strong too, so the overall job market is very strong in Colorado. Oregon does have some high tech positions in Portland and Corvallis, though and well respected academics. U of Oregon does not offer much engineering. Oregon State does, in Corvallis.

Of course its sunnier in Colorado as well. If costs are the same I might choose Boulder. The BA degree will not hurt as long as you take plenty of math, a few engineering classes, and all the CS you need to learn the field. So if you are interested in the software related to cars or robotics, take a little mechanical engineering , for instance. CU Boulder will not limit what classes you take, but at the end of the day, your diploma will say BA and not BS. Again, Boulder’s math and physics is stellar, so any classes you take in those areas will be a plus and I think they call the math or physics degree a BA as well. BA means you can read and write, so do not think of it as a negative. You will have to take a few more writing classes, and all engineers need that today anyway.

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I have daughters at both University of Oregon and Boulder right now. (we live in CA) I can’t tell you much about the CS program, but only the schools itself. Eugene is tiny, and is getting really old for my rising senior right now. There are few/no opportunities for her to get internships. Portland is nearly two hours away. University of Oregon is more humanities based, and Oregon State is more engineering based (my husband went there).

Boulder is a great city with a lot of work opportunity, and Denver is less than an hour away. My daughter will get an internship that the school finds for her (she is in advertising/media design). And of course the school and surrounding are amazing and beautiful.

Comparing the two, I just think job-wise that there are more opportunities in Boulder both during and once the student graduates. Of course, you have to go department by department, but as mentioned above, Boulder’s physics and math are outstanding, which it seems where you are leaning for class-wise.

I have a daughter number 3 leaving for college in 2 years, and she is looking at Boulder as well (also advertising/media).

I totally get what the OP is stating. It is difficult to nearly impossible to get out of a CA school in 4 years because so many classes are impacted that the students just don’t have to opportunities to sign up for the classes they want. That is one HUGE reason we sadly went out of state. Boulder is about $10k more than Oregon for OOS.

Another thing that I find interesting is that Oregon only charges by the units (at least for OSS) - the fewer classes you take then the less money you pay. In Boulder, you pay the same whether you take 3, 4 or 5 classes (for OSS). I found this really interesting. That part is a bit annoying on the Boulder side in case a student happens to get a job that may require less classes one of the semesters.