Are pre-meds like college football players?

<p>Many college football players are effectively majoring in football, with the dream of going to the NFL. Many of them take the easiest majors and courses, learning relatively little in the classroom, since most of their time it taken up by practice and competition. The "list of easy courses for athletes at Stanford" scandal was discussed in another thread.</p>

<p>However, the reality is that many will never go into the NFL, and many who do last only a few years. A college football player who took the easiest major and courses and learned little may end up graduating with a relatively "empty" bachelor's degree that may result in poor job and career prospects compared to other graduates at his same school. And he may be further disadvantaged by being so focused on football that s/he may not have thought about non-football job and career prospects.</p>

<p>Of course, some do make the most of their football scholarships and major in something that helps them toward a non-football job and career. Unfortunately, such college football players appear to be a small minority.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, the armies of pre-med students entering the nation's universities overwhelmingly seem to have similar plans: major in biology because it includes the pre-med courses, and choose the easiest possible other courses in order to protect their GPAs. In the process, they learn enough for the MCAT, but the easiest possible courses do not come with that much additional learning. The focus on gaining admission to medical school takes precedence over everything else.</p>

<p>But most medical school applicants do not get into any medical school. So they are left graduating with biology degrees into a job market flooded by other unsuccessful pre-meds with biology degrees -- not a good way to start a career.</p>

<p>Of course, some pre-meds do plan for the possibility of not getting into any medical school, by taking courses or some other major toward alternative academic or professional goals. However, that number seems to be few, since the orthodox pre-med wisdom is that doing so carries risk to one's GPA that medical schools value so highly.</p>

<p>Any other thoughts on the apparent similarity?</p>

<p>…Since the national average of acceptance percent to med school is somewhere between 55-60% on the first try, I’d say most of your argument is built on false data and very generalizing otherwise.</p>

<p>Interesting analogy.</p>

<p>If they are majoring in Biology I’d say there not taking just easy classes no? They have to take upper div bio and since Bio is a hard science I’d say its much more on the hard sidethen easier side for majors?</p>

<p>A lot of med school applicants major in biomed eng, so that they have an alternative route if med schools fails.</p>

<p>And I would assume pre-med students usually are better educated than football players in any case, and therefore would have much better job prospects in any non-NFL field.</p>

<p>There are plenty of jobs for ‘non-academically inclined’ stereotypical dumb jock with a low GPA degree from a good school. Sales and politics would be good places to look for opportunities.</p>

<p>I agree that there is sometimes a problem, although I wouldn’t phrase it exactly the way you did. </p>

<p>When I was in college, I knew many pre-med students who majored in biology and pre-vet students who majored in biology or animal science – and many of them eventually did not get into medical or veterinary school. </p>

<p>The proportion of students admitted to medical school is actually much lower than the statistics make it appear. Those statistics only count students who actually apply to medical school. A large number of students who originally hoped to go to medical school don’t apply because they realize that their grades and/or MCAT scores are so low that they have no realistic chance of admission. By junior year, they’re looking for a different career. (The same applies to pre-vet students, although the criteria for admission are a little different, and the likelihood of admission is even worse.)</p>

<p>The problem here is that many of these students have no particular interest in the subject matter of their majors or in the other career fields that those majors might lead to. It’s not that their curricula were too easy – it’s that they didn’t prepare the students for any kind of alternative plan that appeals to them if a career in human or veterinary medicine didn’t work out.</p>

<p>There’s much to be said for having a Plan B in mind if you’re pre-med or pre-vet, and taking that Plan B into account when choosing your major. I greatly admire a friend of my daughter’s who was pre-med and who double majored in biology and business. As it happens, she did get into medical school, but if she had not – or if she had changed her mind about a career in medicine at any point – she had another option, and the option was something that appealed to her.</p>

<p>I agree with sorghum. </p>

<p>There are probably more job opportunities for these ‘student-athletes’. A lot of job searches is about ‘who you know’ or better yet, who knows you. In this sport crazed society of over-zealous $$$ donating alumn in positions of authority-- wil give an athlete from his university, with ANY type degree, a job opportunity or an interview.</p>

<p>ucbalumnus: why are you limiting this to football and pre-meds? Don’t many kids have plans that changed?</p>

<p>I think that what UCB is observing is the qualitative difference between a pre-professional curriculum and a liberal arts curriculum. A legendary dean at Harvard once said that one of the primary outcomes of a liberal arts education should be to teach you how to detect “when a person is ‘talking rot.’” In other words, it should cultivate a level of critical thought, and should sensitize students to the reality that what is perceived as “common wisdom” is often flawed and in need of re-evaluation. A pre-professional curriculum, whether that curriculum is football, medicine, engineering or accounting, teaches the tools of that trade. Those tools, combined with the critical thinking skills, make a powerful combination. But those tools without the critical thinking skills can tend to create one-tool technicians, who see the entire world through the lens of their profession’s single vantage point.</p>

<p>As one of those pre-med students you described, except I’m a psych major, how I view it is if I eventually don’t get into medical school, my backup plans are to pursue other health related fields, such as dentistry, nursing, or physician assistant. Of all of which also don’t depend on your major in the least.</p>

<p>As luck would have it, we have a neighbor whose daughter is home on spring break. I got to chat with her for a few minutes last night. She has completed all of her pre-med requirements and has taken her MCATs and done well. She has been admitted to med school. She is a political science major. She didn’t strike me at all as a football player.</p>

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<p>And the stuff learned studying for the business degree will likely be useful if she eventually ends up as a physician in a private or small group practice.</p>

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<p>Guess I should have included some pre-law students as well…</p>

<p>More generally, it would include all students who are betting their entire undergraduate education on preparing for a career or professional school that has a low probability of success (playing in the NFL, going to medical or law school, etc.), without making any preparation for a “plan B”, even though there may be room in their undergraduate schedules for taking courses for alternate academic and professional interests.</p>

<p>“and choose the easiest possible other courses in order to protect their GPAs.”
The classes taken , as well as a students GPA are reviewed by Med schools, in case you didn’t know.
And since when is Organic Chemistry an “easy” course?? Most premeds do take that class, which at many colleges is considered a “weed out” class because of its difficulty. And not all continue with their premed plans after the resulting hit to their GPA.</p>

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<p>“easiest possible other courses”</p>

<p>Also, in many universities, there are two versions of organic chemistry. Most pre-meds take the easier one, rather than the harder one for chemistry and chemical engineering majors. Not to say that even the easier one is “easy”, but if you ask on the pre-med forum which one you should take, you’ll likely get most people replying to take the easier one. The same goes for physics and sometimes general chemistry.</p>

<p>The list of “easy classes” that Stanford had for athletes had no Chemistry, or Physics classes on it. Surely we can agree that there is no comparison between the level of difficulty between ANY college level Physics or Chemistry class to those on that particular list of classes. Physics or Chemistry are usually not taken by anyone because they are an “easy” A.</p>

<p>i do see some of the comparisons as far as choosing the easier class for the GPA rather than the harder class. the obvious difference that jumps out at me is the pre med is trying his or her best to maintain a 4.0 while the athlete is trying to maintain a 2.0 to 2.5. Also pre-meds are aware of the fact that the easiest courses are a red flag and they cannot blatantly follow that path. I certainly would not categorize all athletes this way. We all know that some athletes will do both and they have a fantastic hook and advantage over the other students.</p>

<p>IMO, this is a major that definitely gets a “smile and nod” from me. I’ve met many pre-med students and their proud mamas and papas, but none of them have been successful at getting into med school so far. </p>

<p>It doesn’t mean that none of them actually do it, of course. Somebody is getting into med school! However, I agree with the OP that being a pre-med major in college and going to college with the intention of playing college sports to get into the NFL/AFL; NBA etc. is a reasonable analogy for most students.</p>

<p>^
nonzeous, your analogy makes no sense. College football players that go to the NFL are at 2.4%, where as students that are pre-med and take the MCAT have a 30% chance of going to med school.</p>