<p>Don't feel alone.
I am an agnostic and I know many people out there who are agnostics too. All these different debates out there...they are either defensive of their own beliefs or they want to prove the other wrong. It leads to no end. No one can prove you wrong because it is YOUR belief and no one can touch it. And in return, you can never prove another wrong because you are not that individual himself</p>
<p>Quetzal - are you in Madrid? Either at ICS or another British school? (I go to the American School of Madrid out by Pozuelo.) Spanish teenagers are so bloody weird... almost no one's religious, Republican, etc. they're mostly doped out anarchists or commies.</p>
<p>Wow...most of the people at my school are religious. I would say that probably 80-90% are religious. Oddly enough, lots of my friends are really religious (as in "See You at the Pole" where they all huddle around the flagpole and pray and sing songs before school :confused: ) I tend to not divulge my atheism to many people because there is usually a negative response. Actually, I got yelled at for saying Christmas is coming and then I got into a big long argument about it. Not fun at all...</p>
<p>Some kids at my school went on a church retreat and apprently had a revelation, or something, because now they're crazy and fundamendalist and telling people they need to accept Jesus because he's coming or something, which is interesting considering most (well, a lot) of my school is Jewish.</p>
<p>well, I'm neither agnostic nor atheist, but I (like to think that I) have an open mind, so if you don't mind, I'd like to listen in and put in my two cents</p>
<p>debating religion isn't a bad thing...it's like a test of character, whether you
(1) truly believe in what you say you do and
(2) truly are in control of your emotions</p>
<p>I can't say I accept the atheists' arguments for their beliefs, but I do respect them (but respect also means speaking up when you think there's an error)</p>
<p>I'm not agnostic, I do believe in a god of sorts, but I'm a pantheist. So no wrathful God or "I made your mom spontaneously combust, but it's because I love her" God for me.</p>
<p>My school is probably about 90% Christian (and black), 8% Jewish, and 2% other. In the whole school of about 1400 there must be about 10 non-Jewish whites. And I've heard of a grand total of 4 people that are atheists or agnostics. My school's demographics are kind of weird.</p>
<p>some people like to "pick and choose" religion...</p>
<p>--So no wrathful God or "I made your mom spontaneously combust, but it's because I love her" God for me.</p>
<p>Umm...you don't like the "Father disciplines children so they don't become spoiled brats or serial killers" analogy? What about "He loves me best who takes me home"?</p>
<p>bump</p>
<p>I wanna have a spirited discussion about religion and belief system <em>pouts</em> lol</p>
<p>Hey I have a question for you guys...</p>
<p>So like I said my small town is predominantly Christian. Anyway, we have release time everyday on Wednesdays during school. (I go to a public school by the way.) On Wed. during one hour of the day EVERYONE has study hall because no classes are offered because the time is "release time". If you don't go to release time you simply have a study hall. I have no complaints because the extra study hall is actually nice for me, though for many it is just a really killed hour. </p>
<p>Anyway, I was just wondering about the legality of release time. It seems odd that school basically stops for an hour so that a few kids can go worship. I don't know why they can't do it in the evening or after school. In elementry maybe a fourth of the kids go but by the time you get to high school only 3-5 per grade actually go to it. </p>
<p>Just wondering what you guys thought. By the way my school board consists I think 90% of members from the CHurch of God, the one church that has the release time program.</p>
<p>Hey tanonev... I try to be open-minded too so say anything you want!</p>
<p>Seems kinda "un-Christian" that they're gonna go with the letter of the law for all it's worth...but I don't think there's any law that you can bring up against them</p>
<p>but remember, we Christians are human, too, just like everyone else</p>
<p>this is just my opinion, but I'd like feedback on it, but please don't get upset by it</p>
<p>atheists believe there is no God because (1) they want to be in control of their lives, or (2) they don't like the idea of someone always looking over their shoulder</p>
<p>if you want to see a Christian's view on atheism and agnosticism, please Google "A Ready Defense"</p>
<p>Tenonev,</p>
<p>First, yeah I really don't care about the release time issue. I was more curious to see what responses I would receive, simply because it appears that a lot of people on CC seem to go to schools where a majority of the students are agnostics or atheists.</p>
<p>As far as your ideas about why someone is atheist...I think those are two reasons that people are atheist (one to be in control, two they don't like idea of someone looking over shoulder), but I also think there are other possibilities.</p>
<p>One reason I think some people become atheist is that they are so turned off by religion. Some of these people have seen the bad side of religion (it has both just like everything in life). Or people see people get caught up in religion and cannot relate and only become more drawn away from it.</p>
<p>Another reason, I think some people seriously just can't imagine that there is a god that cares. Some may look at scientifics, some logic, or whatever. But I do think there are plenty of arguments and ways to see things and actually end up feeling like there probably is not a god.</p>
<p>Myself, I like to think there is a good diety out there, but I just don't believe that is the case. At the same time I do not believe there is not a supernatural being out there. I simply do NOT know. I am ignorant and no matter what approach I take it all seems impossible. To me, it is impossible that I am here typing, but I am. After accepting I existed, I wanted to find the answers. I searched around me and within me but I did not find anything until at once I found something. I found this peace, this personal sentiment that we really don't have to know. And that is kind of how I feel, though goodnesss I love debating it.</p>
<p>ANyway, I think there are many reasons a person chooses to be atheist. SOme assume smarter people are atheist and somehow feel more as if they are better if they are atheist. Yes, some don't have the best reasons for tricking themself into believing no god exists or for proclaiming such sentiments. Yet at the same time, I can totally understand that some people most sincerely believe no god exists.</p>
<p>People usually cite that bad things happen under the watchful eye of a "benevolent" God. Among the most recently cited: 9/11. Why would such a loving God let so many people die in such an incident?</p>
<p>The answer isn't easy, but consider this: many people on that day were caught in mysterious traffic jams or given other plans. Those terrorists could have done a lot more damage, but the towers were even emptier than usual. Also, people did manage to escape the buildings...</p>
<p>The problem is that many people (especially agnostics and atheists) regard death as a bad thing. It's human nature. But like I said before: "He loves me best who takes me home." It's hard to accept sometimes, but once you do, life suddenly has so much more meaning, and so does God.</p>
<p>My theology teacher has said that one of the most terrible scenes to witness is that of an atheist dying...comments?</p>
<p>I wholly believe that the One upstairs is a good guy...if my parents' situations had been just slightly different, I probably would be living life as an invalid (assuming I manage to survive)</p>
<p>bump</p>
<p>Leonesa?</p>
<p>I respect people who justify atheism through belief systems, though I'm not too partial towards those who try to justify it through science</p>
<p>if anything, science points towards the existence of God</p>
<p>About death being bad...I really am not sure I think of it as bad. OF course I feel sad when someone dies. But that is probably to a great degree for the people who are living who lost the companionship of whomever passed away. I think death is a natural part of whatever this cycle of life is. Do I think of death as good? NO. Bad? NO. I just think it exists and at times is very unfortunate and at other times perhaps is better that way.</p>
<p>I hope to goodness your theology is horrified to see an atheist die! Hey, if I full-heartedly believed in a God and that those who did not seek him went to hell, I would feel HORRIBLE guilt each time someone non-believing died. That's why I actually can understand why people are converting people all the time. Heck, if I was a Christian and had a strong faith in the Bible I'd do the same if I thought I could help. I don't know how people can just accept that there bud or neighbor is going to suffer the torture of hell (of course what exactly hell would be is another debate).</p>
<p>Anyway, I am not scared to face death other than I am not ready for it. I am not scared to face judgement I guess is what I mean to say. I try my best in life, try to be ethical, to make the world better, and I realize I am not perfect. Do I deserve to be miserable for eternity? I can say modestly that I do not deserve that and I don't deserve that ANYONE (even Bin Laden, and horrible murderers) deserves eternal torture. I seriously think we can trace back why people act the way they do and the world is so unfair that it is unfair to believe we can judge everyone by one standard. (Of course, here you could say only God judges and he decides what is just.)</p>
<p>About science and atheism...</p>
<p>I can understand science pointing to either. THen again my problem with relying on science is I am not a science major or anything so again I would be takign someone else's word for granted.</p>
<p>However if you say "if anything, science points to the existence of a God" I question how many sides you have checked out.</p>
<p>Scan the web for some polls on percent of scientists who believe in God. I can't find what I am looking for right now. ANyway, I came across polls that showed a steady increase in atheism/agnosticism as they moved from scientists in general, with ph.d's and more involved, to the most advanced.</p>
<p>I guess I think that part of our understanding of science depends on our beliefs. SOme think creation science proves evolution wrong and others this that...ahhh...</p>
<p>Well, I've developed my own analogy of who God is</p>
<p>think of God as a computer game programmer, a skilled one (we've yet to find loopholes in the code lol)
we are the characters, and as such, we must abide by His rules, whether we like it or not
God likes to use the rules of His game as much as He deems reasonable; sometimes He'll hit a "divine intervention" button, though
as we play through the game, we're faced with challenges...the better players have to face off against bigger "bosses"
how we play determines whether we beat the game or end up in the Recycle Bin</p>
<p>Simply put, hell is separation from God. If you reject God, He will reject you. That's basically all there is to hell. We don't think about it as much of a punishment, but we Christians believe that on Earth, God is everywhere and spreads His influence around us. Using your statement that the "world is so unfair," imagine what it would be like without Someone keeping it all together!</p>
<p>"God isn't fair. Thank goodness for that!" "Fair" is if when we mess up, we get kicked out of the game...after all, God Himself proved that it's possible to beat the game without extra lives or cheat codes, so we're obliged to do the same...yet He gives up quite a few extra lives (though He doesn't often give out cheat codes lol)</p>
<p>I was mentioning the atheist's death not only as painful for us Christians, but also for the atheist. Imagine being on your deathbed firmly believing that the moment you go, you're gone forever...even a Mother Teresa would be filled with regret in such a situation</p>
<p>Man, that last post I wrote was pretty poor. Sorry, I can tell I am getting tired!</p>
<p>I just wanted to say, one of the beauties of life is the mystery itself. The impossibility of it all adds depth and makes us ponder it all... I love curiousity!</p>