<p>Whats FPF?</p>
<p>It means you get accepted for the spring, although you can end up living on campus for fall anyway. No clue why they have it really.</p>
<p>This may be a little dated but neverthelessā¦
[The</a> New York Times > Week in Review > Image > Collegiate Matchups: Predicting Student Choices](<a href=āhttp://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/09/17/weekinreview/20060917_LEONHARDT_CHART.html]Theā>The New York Times > Week in Review > Image > Collegiate Matchups: Predicting Student Choices)</p>
<p>Focus on the horizontal Berkeley line and youāll notice that Berkeley is pretty dismal against all Ivies, Stanford, and MIT.</p>
<p>On the bright side, Berkeley beats UCLA 65:35.</p>
<p>Wow, Virgina seems to do pretty well</p>
<p>sunfish, I feel that this study, although claiming to have been conducted on high school students nationally, has a strong Northeast/Mid Atlantic bias. Stanford does well because it is one of 5 ānational universitiesā, but the other three universities located outside of the NE and Mid Atlantic (Cal, Northwestern and UCLA) all do very poorly. </p>
<p>Still, if one were to use Warblersrulesā data in post #17 in concert with your own link, through simple extrapolation, one can surmise (with relative accuracy I wager) that well over 600 students each year chose Cal over Ivy League schools and peer institutions (such as Chicago, Duke, Georgetown, MIT, Northwestern, Stanford and UVa). Thatās over 2,500 Cal students in total, which is over 10% of its undergraduate student population.</p>
<p>Why Berkeley over MIT? For my friend, it was because he didnāt like the whole hackers vs. tools attitude on campus. Weather and distance is a huge deal for people tooā¦</p>
<p>āHow the hell do you turn down MIT for EECS.ā</p>
<p>Well, someone I know turned down MIT for Berkeley Materials Engineering. That was just a little over a couple of years ago, so heās now a 3rd year at Cal. ;)</p>
<p>warblersrule86,</p>
<p>There a numerous of reasons for choosing Stanford over Cal. Stanford is stronger, or sometimes even stronger, where people think Cal is strong. But most ivies arenāt academically as strong as Stanford. the lower ivies arenāt really that more prestigious than Cal is.</p>
<p>Just an aside for any Juniors who may happen upon this thread. With the possible exception of Cornell, the Ivies have phenomenal need-based financial aid. As a result, it will be LESS out of pocket to attend an Ivy 3,000 miles away for the vast majority of students at Cal. LACs like Williams and Amherst are cheaper too. Just something to think about.</p>
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<p>Well, realistically the faculty at Berkeley for that field are insanely good. Thereās a point where caliber of faculty is so great that ranking systems are a joke, and EECS certainly reaches that point. </p>
<p>Admittedly while both are difficult schools, MIT offers a cushion to first years. But the weather and surroundings of the schools are insanely different, to the point where it shouldnāt be surprising there would be those turning down MIT. </p>
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<p>This would be one of the last reasons, and probably not at all justifiable if youāre talking of departments. The main reason to be wary of Cal in this comparison is that it is overcrowded in certain majors, and grade deflated perhaps unnecessarily. If you talk actual departments, there are places where one school is stronger, and the other is. </p>
<p>We should remember, the departments at Cal, Stanford and MIT are above petty undergraduate strength debate. The graduate students at Cal, some of which are tops from schools like Yale, Princeton, etc are blown away by the professors here in the big name departments. </p>
<p>So again, if weāre talking about the big stuff, the real mode for comparison is only strength in the sense of how kind things are to undergraduates.</p>
<p>I also had a roommate who turned down Stanford and MIT as a spring Berkeley admitā¦she was international, though, so thatās still pretty impressive.</p>
<p>a few people from my high school turned down Columbia and Cornell for Berkeley. I think distance was a big factor.</p>
<p>lol Iām sure weāre all enjoying the UCs nowadays. With all this racism and junk starting to happen, this is like a bomb about to implode.</p>
<p>I havenāt been accepted to Berkeley yet (transfer student), and I didnāt apply to any Ivies. However, I can confidently say that I would pick Berkeley for Psychology (my major) over all Ivies except for Harvard and Yale. The Psych Dept. at Cal is amazing and has some of the best and most distinguished professors in the field.</p>
<p>Cornell got us beat on two things: DC food and suicides. For everything else, Cal is either better or on par. Itās little wonder to find that many people would pass up Cornell for Berkeley, but I think itās much rarer to hear about people who pass HYPS (and to a good extent, M).</p>
<p>I thought the suicides were actually an urban myth. Jumping into a gorge makes good headlines. Cornell has an average suicide rate (not that Iām going to cite statistics, but you look this up). Iām sure Berkeley has an average one too, though two suicides reported last weekā¦depressing.</p>
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<p>I weep on your profound level of ignoranceā¦ Cal Berkeley is a good school. But, at undergraduate level, it is not on par with any of the top private colleges, in terms of the strength of the student body, selectivity, resources per student, class sizes, recruitment opportunities, networking opportunities, and the list goes on. The fact that you think Cal Berkeley is better than Cornell is a joke or rather an insult in itselfā¦ haha</p>
<p>Although Berkeley is highly regarded in the state of California, outside of this state, you would be having a difficult time finding a top student wanting to attend the institution. Over 90% of the entire student body is from Californiaā¦ People in the East Coast, when they think of elite colleges, they think Ivies, MIT, Georgetown, Duke, Stanford, Hopkins, and in some cases UVA, and no one thinks Berkeley. </p>
<p>I went to a competitive public high school in California, located in an affluent suburb of Los Angeles. The top performing students much strongly preferred going to ANY of the ivies, not to mention, top privates such as Georgetown, Duke, Northwestern, Stanford, etc were heavily favored assuming no cost differentials. And, for me it happens to be the case that attending Cornell is cheaper than attending UCB in-state.</p>
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<p>Cornell has a below-average suicide rate, far below that of MITās. But, Cornell seems to have this urban myth because of the gorges hereā¦</p>
<p>On the other hand, Berkeley seems to have urban myth attached to it, fair or not. Many people in the East Coast, when they hear UCB, think of such words as ācrazy liberalā, āprotestsā, āhippiesā, ādruggiesā, ānaked people on the streetā, even if these statements may not accurately portray the true scene at the school today.</p>
<p>ābut I think itās much rarer to hear about people who pass HYPS (and to a good extent, M).ā</p>
<p>Almost nobody would turn down those schools if admitted, realistically. Certainly wouldnāt turn them down for the purpose of choosing Berkeleyā¦ Berkeleyās prestige is only regional in Cali, while those schools have nation-wide ultra-prestige and incredible resources. And, Berkeleyās main attraction is geared towards California applicants, and it ends up enrolling most of its students from the state. </p>
<p>But, I could see someone choosing Berkeley over schools like Cornell, Northwestern, Georgetown, or Duke ONLY if that person is in-state for Berkeley and did not get much financial aid from these private colleges. For out of state applicant, with no tuition benefits, choosing Berkeley over ANY of Ivies (forget about top Ivies, I am talking about non-HYP Iviesā¦) or Duke, NU, Georgetown, Stanford, MIT, or whatever, doesnāt make much senseā¦</p>
<p>LazyKid,</p>
<p>the perception of Cornell outside of America is - it is the school for Berkeley rejects.</p>
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<p>Iām aware of the general Ivy craze, but your statement is misleading; Iām not going to call it false, because you may have had the right idea and not phrased it correctly. </p>
<p>It <em>is</em> true that most strong students from a competitive school in California shoot for the Ivy Leagues. This is actually partially because since UCs cater so much to the in-staters, and the schools become underrated. On the other hand, acquaintances of mine here from the East Coast and other out of state areas specifically chose Berkeley for the departments. Department-wise, most of the schools you have mentioned barely compare in the technical fields; I agree the resources can be a problem in some areas, but in some of the fields the school is very strong in, there is really no dearth of resources.</p>
<p>The most accurate statement would be that for those interested in an elite department at Berkeley with the resources to provide for them properly, the school can be more attractive than most of the ones you mentioned, but in the case that resources seem scarce, and overcrowding prevails, thereās less incentive to attend.</p>