Army: serve or not?

College Confidential Community
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<p>stardragon- the UN is the most anti-semetic, anti-israel organization this side of nazi germany. they have never and will never support israel, whether u think israel is right in this conflict or not.</p>

<p>as for mandatory service, i think that a volunteer army should be kept in place whenever it can, but some cases need a draft to bolster troop strength, and in those cases i think anyone that can serve should. does anyone honestly think that the draftees in WW2 were mindless killing machines or even enjoyed their job? they served because they felt it was their duty. i only hope that if a draft is instuted now our generation wont embarrass ourselves like our parents generation did, and will instead live up to the ideals of our grandparents in WW2 and Korea, and do our duty to our country.</p>

<p>"Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong."
—Stephen Decatur, 1816</p>

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<p>I completely disagree with many of the anti-war, anti-military, pacificsts on this board. There are times when military action is necessary, and the people that it kills (like the TERRORISTS in Iraq), are people who are trying to kill Americans and who wantnothing more but see every American die. It is because they pose a threat to OUR national security that the American military has to take them out, for the safety of the civilians at home. Because of the American military, Nazism and Japanese Imperialism was defeated in World War II, the world is safe from the threat of Kremlin communism, Milosevic is no longer torturing people in Kosovo, and Saddam is no longer filling mass graves or using torture chambers and rape rooms against his own people. Many people onhere mention human rights, well the American military has promoted human rights more than any other body. </p>

<p>It is because of the soldier, and not the reporter, that we have freedom of the press. It is because of the soldier, and not the poet, that we have freedom of speech. It is because of the soldier, and not the agitator, that we have the freedom to protest. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves under the flag, and who's coffin is draped with the flag, who gave that protestor the freedom that he abuses to burn that flag.</p>

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<p>Bullrider,</p>

<p>Let me first say, no doubt the soldiers are great defenders of our democracy and yes protect our freedom.</p>

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<p>However, I think your quotes were unfair. The idea that it is only because of our soldiers and that reporters, protesters, etc don't help us have freedom is in my mind ridiculous. There are so many elements involved. Indeed the soldiers play a huge part and make huge sacrifices. I have plenty of family who have given their years. But that doesn't mean, for example, protesters don't help us protect freedom.</p>

<p>Women right to vote, for example, was achieved not through militant manners but rather through "protest". Protesting is simply standing up for what you believe in when you feel somethign is wrong. By being against protesting is like being against freedom. </p>

<p>I just really had to comment on this one. Especially since there is a guy in my class who "hates" anyone who is against the Iraq war and whom specifically said (directed at me since my parents protested the war in D.C.) that if he ever saw someone protesting on the road he would run them over. </p>

<p>I believe in respecting soldiers. I believe in respecting our freedoms. I believe in respecting protests, too.</p>

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<p>Leonesa, allow me to clarify my statement. What I meant, was that without our military, none of those rights would have been possible. Had the Americans not beaten the British in the Revolutionary War, we would not have freedom of speech. Had Americans not gone to war to preserve the Union and defeat slavery, Black Americans would have parity with White Americans today. If America and the Allies had not defeated the Axis in WWII, we would not have freedom of speech or protest. </p>

<p>I thought that your comment of stating that the military is primarily a killing machine a couple posts back was WAY, WAY off, and really disturbed me. I don't think you understand that it is because of our military that an equillibrium is being kept in many places around the world today, and it is because of our military that several people inside and outside the U.S. live in freedom.</p>

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<p>You know, I guess I did make that sound bad. I didn't intend to make the military soudn like a killing machine. There are some people who are like that ( a guy I know who dreams of being a sniper and killing people - sick I know), but the vast majority are good people and do not favor death upon others. </p>

<p>I guess my problem is I am unsure about a lot of things in life. I'm agnostic as far as religion goes and everythign just seems relative to me. So I lean more against war if I don't see very strong justification. </p>

<p>And sometimes I even question war altogether. Perhaps this isn't a fair comparison, but I like to think of the microcosm of war. For example, two people have very different beliefs about something and a conflict of interest. By beating up the weaker one so that your way prevails doesn't solve the initial problem, but rather it fosters hate. I don't know. I just wish it was different. OH I don't know. It is just somethign I personally will never do, though I can understand why people serve.</p>

<p>And yes I understand there are many other jobs not associated with "killing". I could do that, if I believed in the cause. Seriously, I do have a lot of respect for soldiers who give time for a cause they believe in. I'm just not always convinced in the cause, the justification, the practicalness, etc.</p>

<p>Then again, what do I know - only that I don't know anything... :)</p>

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<p>And sorry for my words below..</p>

<p>Israel is agressor. Using the support of UN, it occupied Palestine, increased its own area illegally and agressively. Now it kills innocent Arabs (Israeli soldier vs. Arab teenager with stone in his hand-- laughy). I am absolutely against Palestinian terrorism, but Israeli must understand that they can backfired. It's rational. So let's leave Israel, it's military country, it needs army, and its people support army.</p>

<p>I am for Iraq war, I'm for the war in Afghanistan. So I'm not pacifict and "rejector" of wars, but.. I'm "much more FOR" the rights of human, that's why I'm for voluntary army. Army is something less than people of certain country, and I hate expressions of officials "we need to increase the prestige of army".</p>

<p>Stardragon,for once I agree with you</p>

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<p>I think that all of the people who are in such support if war should go and fight. Put your life where your mouth is.</p>

<p>I once met an undergrad at yale who said that all palestinians are a scourge and they live to kill israelis. However, when I asked him why, if he was so enthusiastic about the Israeli Army why he didnt join it, he wasnt able to answer</p>

<p>I detest armchair general who throw away other people's lives </p>

<p>There are times we need to fight( as in to prevent an imminent attack) but there should NOT be a war of pre emption based on shaky intelligence which is later disproved. there was NO relationship between al-qaeda and saddam ironically though this war has provided the type of propaganda for the recruitment of terrorists that Osama would have dreamed of. </p>

<p>Draft Jenna and Barbara!!!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Draft Jenna and Barbara

[/quote]
</p>

<p>well that was pretty dumb</p>

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<p>Well . . . Why not?</p>

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<p>Because they're old enough to make their own decisions and the military wasn't their choice, like most of you. Great, now lets aim for the President's children.</p>

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<p>I wouldn't join the army even if I was drafted. That's just me though, maybe it's right for you. No one can tell you whether you should join or not, you've got to discover it.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I think that all of the people who are in such support if war should go and fight. Put your life where your mouth is.</p>

<p>I once met an undergrad at yale who said that all palestinians are a scourge and they live to kill israelis. However, when I asked him why, if he was so enthusiastic about the Israeli Army why he didnt join it, he wasnt able to answer

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Your logic is so flawed it is funny. You believe that if you adamantly support something, you should "put yourself where your mouth is". I might ask you if you support human rights-according to your logic, you should be the first one treking over to the Sudan to rescue the victims of the violence. Oh but then again, you're not.</p>

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<p>but you are wrong. I am ameechee, I do work on human rights and poverty assistance programs in the summer in some foreign locales</p>

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<p>I also help out in other ways such as contributing to amnesty international and filling out those "you are not forgotten cards" ... I do put my work where my mouth is.</p>

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<p>Leonesa said it's ridiculous, and I'm completely agree with her. If you say about America, maybe that's right (though very very slightly), but this statement doesn't reflect the soldier all over the world. I don't doubt that USSR had very strong military power, but its soldiers "defended" the pain of innocent people, the blood, totalitarism and "slavery of speech". Soldier is nothing compared to the government and people of certain country. And now many countries do not have all these features of the freedom only because of the soldiers.</p>

<p>Whoever soldier is, he/she must be volunteer. Exception - war, very very serious war, like WW2, where the life of humankind was more important than the life of one human.</p>

<p>And I also doubt that America defeated Nazism (though about Japan you're right), the powers of the whole world did it. I respect patriots, but there are always many radicals in all countries, who believe everything was done by their fatherlands. I don't understand some Americans who misunderstand terrorism. Don't even compare it to Nazism, there is nothing common. </p>

<p>Terrorism is organized by some certain countries 1) you know this country very well, its people rule the world: and America, and Europe, and Russia, though not Asia. They instigate terrorism against themselves and against America. 2) country, which instigates terrorism in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine. Don't want to call their names, I think you can guess them. So, terrorism must be defeated, but it's just ambitions of 2-3 states. No need in great military powers.</p>

<p>Stardragon,for once I agree with you</p>

<p>Thank you, however.. I already began to think that nobody agrees with me :)</p>

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<p>Volunteer for a week at a VA hospital, or watch some of these poor bastards right before they get shipped over there, and after they come back, and you will realize that everything that stardragon says is true. Many less than privileged (sp?) have been lured by that nice $15,000 sign on bonus or the promise of money for college, when in reality when alot of these guys come back they are so mentally drained they are in no shape for college so they end up working construction or begging for money the rest of their lives.</p>

<p>So true.</p>

<p>It is honoring our soldiers and supporting this not to have elective wars due to deliberately skewed intelligence.</p>

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<p>"Now it kills innocent Arabs (Israeli soldier vs. Arab teenager with stone in his hand-- laughy)."</p>

<p>Sounds like you've been watching a little too much anti-jewish propaganda.</p>

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<p>Sounds like you've been watching a little too much anti-jewish propaganda</p>

<p>No, usual TV set, 1st channel...</p>

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<p>"And I also doubt that America defeated Nazism (though about Japan you're right), the powers of the whole world did it. I respect patriots, but there are always many radicals in all countries, who believe everything was done by their fatherlands. I don't understand some Americans who misunderstand terrorism. Don't even compare it to Nazism, there is nothing common."</p>

<p>You are right. The Allied Forces in WWII were instrumental in defeating The evil Axis powers. It was the work of all the countries, not just one, that beat Nazism and Japan. However, The U.S. was extremely vital in defeating The Nazis and Japan, due to their man-power and technology. </p>

<p>I think that people like to downplay the hundreds of thousands of American deaths in WWII just because they would hate for the US to actually be credited for doing something good. Read up on D-Day, and realize how horrific and important that battle was for defeating The German occupation of France.</p>

<p>I am having a hard time understanding the rest of your statement. Are you BLAMING The United States for terrorism? Is it our fault that we give out more humanitarian aid than any other country in the world?</p>

<p>As for the Palestinian and Israeli issues, both have plenty of faults. However, Palestinian terrorists have no right killing innocent children and civilians for their cause. The Palistinians are led by hate and anti-semetic feelings. I say good ridance to Yassir Arafat. He was a nasty and evil man who was largely responsible for the disunity in The Middle East.</p>

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<p>And for the record, the Red Army would have crushed both of the remaining Axis powers if we hadn't. It wouldn't have left us in a very good spot following the war though, which is part of the reason we invaded mainland Europe. We dropped the A-Bombs on Japan when we did to prevent Russian interference.</p>