@sbgal2011
RISD comes out the third week of March!
I ruled out SCAD for nearly the same reason as Laguna, just personal preference. Of course, there is the controversy of them not being accredited by NASAD and them never coming to a National Portfolio Day, which did concern me. I do have a friend at SCAD studying animation and she loves it though, and assures me that the education you receive there is amazing. I ruled it out because when I visited, I really didn’t like how spread out the campus was across Savannah, and I’m not really the biggest fan of Savannah in general. The vibe of the people there is very…mixed. I got a snooty vibe from a lot of people there, and a very clique-y vibe. My friend who attends assures me this is not the case, but this is just the vibe I got when visiting.
When it came down to it, there were just other schools that I visited that I could see myself at more. I enjoy smaller campuses and a certain type of environment. I have to say though, the people who go to SCAD looove SCAD, which I liked a lot. Schools with a lot of school spirit make me happy. If your child likes slightly bigger campuses (big for an art school, at least), lots of school spirit, and well, Savannah (some people love it, some don’t like it), I have no doubt they’d like SCAD.
Overall, again ruling out SCAD was very much a thing about personal preference. If you enjoy a bigger college atmosphere then say, LCAD or Ringling, and
My daughter has also ruled out SCAD, but for different reasons (like Pastelrain, all personal preference reasons as opposed to finding the school lacking). When we first visited, she loved Savannah but wasn’t sure about the “no campus” element (and the buildings being so scattered, requiring a bus to get around). So she did a pre-college program and realized that she actually didn’t mind that element too much–especially because the dorms kind of served in that “community/campus” respect, and the bus didn’t bother her.
But ultimately it came down to the programs. SCAD is so specific, major-wise (i.e., illustration OR sequential art OR game design). I think this is great for some people who are sure of what they want to do, and is why they are SO good with job placement in some of these industries. (She also wasn’t crazy about their foundation year program)
But my daughter wants a little more flexibility. She likes illustration, but wants to do some sequential art, some character design, some game art (but she doesn’t want total flexibility, i.e. “open curriculum” either, as she really does need some structured focusing, or she’d be all over the place!). Which is why MICA seems a better fit for her. Still waiting to hear from RISD, but she worries that their illustration program might be a little too focused/less flexible, so if by some stroke of luck she does get in, she’ll have to look more deeply into it.
@sbgal2011 you should check out things like freshmen retention rates, grad rates and career placement rates for all your schools of interest (SCAD included). Those numbers should be the most convincing in determining whether a school is a good investment or not. Check out current rankings, too. While those are not perfectly correlated with quality, they are helpful in indicating how reputable the program is.
My D16 is at SCAD and loves it. However, she’s in the most popular major - animation - and will graduate with a ton of other animation kids. Will she get a job? Jury is out. Who is the most responsible for her getting a job? She is. From what we can see, SCAD provides excellent training and a ton of academic, career and professional support. The rest is up to her. By the way, Lassiter’s kid graduated from SCAD in 2016 in, I think, animation. Maybe we are being over-simplistic but I tend to think "well, if it’s good enough for Lassiter . . . ".
When your student is out looking for a job, no one will care whether the school is NASAD-accredited or what the president makes or who was ticked off because they don’t have a tenure system. They will look at your portfolio or reel. If that’s a quality piece of work, then you stand a better chance over someone who was promoted through the program doing schlock. So the real question you need to ask is whether kids at SCAD receive proper training and have access to employers and professional development. How maverick the school is vs. whether it plays ball with NASAD is secondary.
You want a place that is challenging, supportive, enriching in terms of student experience, and seems to fit well with your student’s abilities and desires. The best art/school is the one at which your kid will thrive.
@KCHWriter makes some excellent points at #582. MICA and SAIC are going to be better fits for a multi-disciplinary approach. Our perusal of RISD’s curriculum a few years ago seemed to suggest a more structured than multi-disciplinary philosophy, although with the option of Wintersession you can take open electives (as well as study abroad) and that’s a very nice feature.
Thanks to everyone about their thoughts on SCAD. DS loved Savannah but we aren’t sure if an exclusive Art School is right for him, as he is only a digital guy (graphic design and photography). He is also a sports junkie who loves College football and basketball (spectator, not player). We still wait to hear from VCU but his portfolio was probably too weak, as he only submitted graphic design and photography (no drawing, sketching, etc). We shall see…
“Just out of curiosity, is there a reason why SCAD is not NASAD school?”
There are a few. Keep in mind that many BFA programs aren’t NASAD-accredited. While the accreditation is helpful when you don’t know much about the program itself (NASAD accreditation assures that certain norms and standards are followed), it’s not necessary to have that accreditation in order to put together a quality program of study. If SCAD follows industry norms for foundation year and the major, then the accreditation isn’t really needed.
I had read from an earlier CC post that SCAD once looked into NASAD accreditation but would have needed to make major changes in order to conform. That obviously makes no sense given the success that the school has enjoyed on its own path. Paula Wallace also seems to be pretty impatient with the idea of serving on endless committees as an “arts educator”. They like the idea of being able to turn on a dime to introduce a new program, rather than being bogged down in the typical college “sclerosis” that plagues most established institutions - committees, sub-committees, working groups, etc - what she has called “deliberation for its own sake”. (NB: this is a legitimate complaint, according to many academics I know!). Obviously, this distaste for a conventional way of doing “college business” will fly in the face of NASAD, which strives to get its colleges recognized as legitimate contributing members of the academy. There’s no doubt that the way SCAD makes decisions is contrary to NASAD’s norms and/or politics.
Pretty sure that individual programs like Interior Design (BFA) or Arch (M.Arch) conform to the necessary accreditation standards since those are needed to be employed in those fields. Whether SCAD will join NASAD down the road is uncertain - the school is still in foundation (ie the original founder is alive and running the place). A lot can change when Paula steps down from leadership (or not, as it might stay in the family for awhile, as other schools have done).
SCAD has the standard university accreditation appropriate to the region (similar to Emory, GA Tech, etc). It’s more like a university that offers creative majors than an “art/design” school.
And just to add…originally my daughter thought she would study sequential art, hoping to some day work for DC Comics or Marvel. If she still wanted to go that route, she would probably be going to SCAD. There are a lot of working comic artists who came out of SCAD. Also, I remember seeing that a ton of the creatives involved with the Disney movie Frozen were SCAD grads (and not just animators–scene designers, character designers, etc.). I think they are VERY good with certain programs! So again, a lot of it is finding the program that fits.
Yeah same here! I wanted to sequential art too but then decided illustration was better for me, and wanted a program that would let me experiment with visual development, sequential art, editorial illustration, things like that. (My dream is to work at Hallmark, and Ringling has MANY connections to Hallmark in their illustration department.)
1). Precollege Decision
One of my junior D’s drawing was submitted to our state’s HS annual art competition by her teachers. Though her drawing did not win, she was offered a scholarship to MCAD’s precollege program. It was a nice recognition but she’s already registered for Ringling’s precollege. I think sticking with our original plan is best even though Ringling will be more costly. The main reason is that she’ll be surrounded by talented students and teachers and the experience in an intense immersion program. Not saying that MCAD precollege participants are not talented. She said she’ll be more motivated by students more skilled than her and she really wants to gain more technical skills.
Critiques
At the art competition, there was a small college fair so she asked for a portfolio review from some of the schools. LCAD rep was so helpful and thorough. He really took the time to look at her recent works; he liked them, but also gave feedback where somethings need work, like variation of green colors need in one piece, an arm length of a figure did not look correct given the perspective, etc. More importantly he provided the “why” which I, a non-artist, found helpful. I don’t know if he was being generous, but said her current work to date would be rated around 7-8, 10 being the highest score, during a review. Her goal is now to improve her portfolio for this fall’s admission process.
According to my D, she does not get critical feedback from her art teacher at school. She is in AP art, and this is her 2nd art class. She has not taken any formal classes outside of HS; she is self taught and has doodled for many years. Our HS does not have a large art department; they do a decent job and a handful of students are talented. The staff is very positive and supportive to students. However, she would like more critical feedback like LCAD’s rep comments so she can see what needs work. I’m hoping Ringling precollege will give her the teaching and honest feedback, and not a pat of the back. Could you give advice on how my D can illicit more real critiques from her teacher?
Financial Safety School
Having one or two is important in our family’s process. Our older S had a couple in his back pocket and our D understands the reason why it’s necessary. However, she is dead set against our flagship, UIUC. It is a very large school; however, outside of its engineering and business schools, the fine arts college has a lot of financial resources and a very small number of students in the art program in comparison to the rest of the university. Unfortunately, illustration is not one of the majors offered at UIUC. The school rep told us that it’s currently in the works to offer studio BFA beginning Fall 2020. Our D would enter in Fall of 2019 so the rep advised that she can start as an undeclared art major and switch to studio art BFA in the fall of 2020. The rep said all the classes are currently offered, but studio BFA program has not been formally organized. Because of these reasons, D does not think this will not be good setting for her. I tried to explain that just because we would like her to applied to UIUC does not mean she’ll wind up there, but it’s to have a financial safety school just in case. I also explained that she may have more freedom than at other art colleges??? Given her stats, the rep said she has a good chance to be qualified to get merit that will reduce tuition by half, given that most art students stats are lower. What are your thoughts about this school just starting a BFA in Studio? UIUC has a strong reputation in Industrial Design and Graphic Design. There’s also lot of donor funding for these areas.
If cost is an issue, MCAD should be fine as long as your daughter likes the program, as any precollege program is really what you make of it. As you know, I highly recommend Ringling’s though. My parents looked at my work and progress and told me they thought it was worth the price. Also, Ringling’s curriculum is very challenging, and as someone who loves challenge, that thrilled me. I don’t really know much about MCAD, but if you’re worried that MCAD will be not challenging enough, I think Ringling is a good fit.
The LCAD reps were so helpful during my admission process, especially my admissions counselor! The first time I went to submit my portfolio for admission (you have to email the portfolio to your admissions counselor, it’s a weird system), my counselor strongly advised I take out some pieces/add some more observational sketches before the deadline and submit again, as she was sure I’d be admitted but wanted me to get the best possible scholarship! It was amazing, and I did indeed get a great scholarship. Just wanted to put that out there, because LCAD definitely has had the most friendly admissions team so far.
As for gaining more helpful critiques from her art teacher, I would say first your daughter should go to your teacher and be honest with what she wants to gain from her class. If that doesn’t work, as scary as it is, the internet (and precollege!) is a lovely place. Most of my harshest critiques (but the most helpful!) came from art forums online, precollege instructors, and then those friends I had made from precollege!
Also, most college admissions teams are willing to give critiques on pieces when you email them. I did this with Ringling and Parsons, and got very helpful feedback (and of course, LCAD’s admissions team helped me with my portfolio a bunch)
I am from Texas and applied to University of North Texas and University of Houston. Do I want to go there? No. I applied in case my financial aid was absolutely terrible from all the schools I was accepted to, or if I just didn’t get into any schools in general (which was a silly thought, looking back). However, I was in your D’s shoes a year ago. I really didn’t even want to think about attending UNT or UH, so applying felt like the end of the world in my teenage, angst ridden brain. Keep encouraging your daughter and reassuring her about the reasons, and she’ll understand.
@pastelrain Thanks for responding and the food for thought. Ringling is the way to go for my D; we got thrown off our initial plans when MCAD made their offer.
I kind of cracked up about your comment about the end of the world, teenage angst comment. I know my D thinks UIUC will be the death of her. The difference between my older S and D (middle child) is that S knew that it was a lot of easier to just say sure I’ll apply (even though I don’t plan to go there and if I say sure easily we don’t have to discuss it numerous times until I agree to apply) Whereas my D rather just say no way in hell so we can discuss it endlessly until she agrees. I love her immensely but she’s very stubborn like her mother.
@cag60093 our family went through similar stress re the economics and making sure our kids apply to our state ‘safety’ schools too. And in both my kids’ cases we’re lucky that we live in NY and several of our state schools have strong art departments - but these weren’t my kids dream schools or necessarily a great fit for them for various reasons either. But kid1 understood that it was going to come down to financial aid $s, so applied to her SUNY of choice and it was a viable option based on the #s.
Kid2’s a junior and we visited one that’s an ok option (not quite the right major but he liked it in general) and will be visiting another soon (that does offer illustration as a major), but he understands that we need him to apply to at least one as our financial safety net.
What also helped is that both of my kids follow alot of artists on social media and many did NOT go to traditional art schools and often make a great case that it’s not necessary and to avoid starting your career out with huge debt. Granted, they’ve all done a lot of hustling and networking to get where they are and may have missed out on the benefits, alumni connections, networking etc of a more traditional art school that may have made launching their careers easier. So try to find a gentle way to impress on her that where you go to school is not the ultimate defining of her success.
Ironically, I have a BFA and teach in a small college art department…but I still find this article makes a lot of good points: “Don’t go to art school -The traditional approach is failing us. It’s time for a change.” https://medium(dot)com/i-m-h-o/dont-go-to-art-school-138c5efd45e9 (oh and the book link has been updated and available in the comments)
Thanks for the link to the article, @ArtAngst. My D also follows many artists on social media and she definitely has her favorites. I will share the link with her too when she’s open to listening.
My sister received a BFA and MFA in sculpture way in the early 90s and developed a career in the sculpture field, but not as a working sculpture. She’s on the management side of a studio. Given that my D is considering a career in art, my sis would like my D to not limit herself to just art. My sister admits now that she decided to major in art because she had natural skills, but she didn’t allow herself to consider other interest areas as a college student.
My H and I think D has natural skills and talent but we are also trying to encourage our D to be open to other schools, LAC and larger unis where she can have other options in addition to a BA in studio art. She really enjoys history and Chinese, but she thinks she wants to work in the art industry and it will be easier to make connections in that industry by attending art specific college. We think those jobs are super competitive, super limiting, and we don’t quite understand the career path since we are non-artists.
Our hope is she’ll get a really good sense of art school experience at Ringling’s precollege and then decide which path is best for her. I apologize if I hijack this thread with my questions. I just find this thread helpful in consider art college options. Thanks.
I believe RCAD pre college is a week longer than MCAD…
I will say that when D attended Ringling pre college it was very intensive and her art exploded in those few short weeks. I loved her work beforehand but it had a whole new look by the end of pre college.
She loved every minute and produced most of her portfolio pieces during that time. Hard to go wrong although I know it is expensive. We originally signed up D to make sure she was really ready to commit to a 24/7 art college. She never looked back and neither did we.
Critiques–I don’t think my D’s high school AP art teacher was great at critiquing either. Maybe because the class has people with many different final goals (not everybody is art school bound). She was better at telling what pieces to include in portfolio.
The internet is a great source. Concept.org has many forums (general and for specific schools) where kids post their portfolios for admission and get feedback. Just reading other’s critiques may help. Good way to learn what is looked for in a portfolio even if they aren’t your own pieces.
I’m glad your D is looking for critical feedback-- many students just want to “do their own thing” and shrug off the needed criticism that is needed to grow (and their art looks the same coming out as it did going in).
Thank goodness for sons who just say “Okay, Mom. whatever you want.” (and then turn away before doing the eye roll!). Think of the safety admission as a cheap insurance policy–not ever planning on using it hopefully but lets YOU sleep better at night. But I’d think twice about a program which isn’t even on the books yet–I’d keep looking for another financial safety with an established program.
@gouf78 I laughed at your comment about your son and the eye roll. My DS was exactly the same way when it came to applications.
That being said, he wanted to stay in Calif and wasn’t completely sure he wanted to attend an “art” college (just in case he wanted to change his major) He applied to several Cal State & UC’s. He applied to just one art college. After acceptance letters rolled out, we did some tours. Cal Poly San Luis Obispo looked like a good match for him and had a great Graphic Design program. Then we visited LCAD. He chose LCAD. Never looked back. He is doing exceptionally well there.
@cag60093 So many changes can happen with our kids between application submission & acceptance. I think finding another safety with an established program as @gouf78 suggested is a great idea.
@gouf78@samsamg - Thanks for your comments about looking for another safety with an established program. My D will be thrilled to hear that she was right!!
My kids don’t just roll their eyes; my older son also sends me emojis with helicopters in flight when he thinks I’m going a bit overboard. We all chuckle about it.
@samsamg Glad to hear your S is doing well at LCAD. I think you suggested about attending the open house in March. We will have to consider it for next year.
I’m so excited to share that DS received his acceptance letter to VCU Arts today! This is a game changer in our search for the right school for our son, as it’s a top Art school that is part of a bigger 4-year university, which really appeals to him. The Graphic Design program is supposed to be tops there, so that’s another plus. The icing on the cake is that we are Virginia residents so it’s in-state tuition for us, and it’s quite a bargain price for such a prestigious Art school. We are all so happy and relieved. We will attend the Preview Day next month before we commit, but I"m quite sure this will be the school for him.
Whereas my D rather just say no way in hell so we can discuss it endlessly until she agrees. I love her immensely but she’s very stubborn like her mother.