Not sure what you mean by this? Are you asking how “Asian” this Asian-American kid is?
^This.
4 Likes
No not at all. I was just wondering when we see the chance me threads, should we encourage students to put emphasis on their ethnic/cultural backgrounds and/or their race. Someone upthread suggested that this would be important only if the student is URM, and this information boosts their chances. I’m trying to see the situation from the eyes of the students themselves. Just thinking out loud.
ETA: one of my kids considers themselves American full stop. The other strongly identifies with my ethnic/cultural background.
Pushing back? No one is going to stand up for a demographic group that is 5.7% of the population and are overrepresented at elite universities.
You must understand that the universities themselves could easily admit more Asian kids if they wanted to. They dont. Admitting more Asian students defeats their diversity agenda and most schools dont want to touch the legacy issue.
It’s just an ugly fact that some people refuse to admit or believe that smart Asian kids shouldnt “chase prestige” or should stop “gaming the system”.
I guarantee you that if Harvard rated other ethnicities lower on their personality scores, there would be demonstrations night and day.
2 Likes
I’m maybe the wrong person to join this fight as I am very skeptical of prestige and chasing it, but I will certainly stand up to anyone telling a smart, accomplished student that they are not enough.
2 Likes
Well, having spoken to a few Asian American students in real life (all go to “top” NYC private or public high schools), there are 2 camps (as noted above):
-
FGLI (and middle income FG) - they seem to be savvy about applying to enough colleges so that there is always an affordable choice and good about negotiating aid packages themselves. They know about quest bridge and all that stuff. Avail themselves of the help that school provides. This is, in short, the BEST part of the American immigrant story that I am privy to. They will vault themselves into the “top ranks” of the educated class in 1 generation. At least, in NYC, there are enough of them going off to colleges that I imagine they will be a source of support for each other. That’s an “advantage” that many FG Asian American students have. They are not alone. I have not really heard much from these kids about the disadvantages suffered by Asians.
-
2nd gen+ (college wise) Asian Americans. They already feel that they lack the innate drive of the 1st gen immigrant kids (if they are not) and they are the ones who are very worried about the perils of being yet another musical, STEM oriented 1500+ Asian. All I can tell them (in real life) - no point dwelling on this. Best step forward, write your story, and try your best.
3 Likes
I’m second to no one in my admiration of the Jewish people.
Perhaps I misunderstood @teleia 's point in that post, but I interpreted it as how can we best support these students when they come to CC for advice?
When I see a Chance Me by an Asian KID (A KID!) asking for advice and that advice is that “your 1540 SAT just doesn’t cut it for an Asian”… I hear an adult telling a child they just aren’t good enough. The application process is stressful enough without that type feedback. We do not know these kids or how they will mentally and emotionally handle that.
Now on the other hand I believe it is important to set realistic expectations for applicants. Recognize their accomplishments and help them form a balanced list. I admit I do not know how best to apply this to the Asian demographic and after reading the 200+ posts in this thread I still do not.
Without arguing the admissions chances, etc. of the Asian demographic, I would love to get opinions on what advice and support the CC community should be giving high stat Asian students.
8 Likes
Thanks. Personally I think we should neither encourage nor discourage. How much a person connects with their ethnic background (whether they are Asian or of some other ancestry) is personal and whether or not they emphasize it is an individual choice. I find it sad though that many Asian kids feel it necessary to hide that aspect of their personality because they believe it will hurt their admission chances.
Separately, I would caution anyone from asking an Asian American kid if they’re “Asian, Asian American, or American” because it smacks of “perpetual foreigner syndrome” even if that was not the intent (and I understand it wasn’t yours either).
4 Likes
Thank you for an excellent restatement of my original OP. I agree that telling a kid that their SAT/ACT is too low solely because they are “Asian” is unwarranted. Like you said, they are kids!
And is it even correct at all schools or all “top schools”? I don’t think we know that at all except from some litigation discovery (e.g., the Harvard case).
(I also still don’t understand how “Asian” furthers any understanding of the kid’s chances. It is ridiculously broad).
3 Likes
Truthfully, I haven’t seen any of this “1540 not good enough for an Asian” on CC. Not much on Reddit either.
If you are coming from a competitive part of the country from a strong school with kids all aiming for the same colleges, 1540 will not keep anyone out or get you in. It’s the rest of the profile and you have to be different in meaningful ways. Same advice for everyone.
It’s not just sad, it’s cruel. But shouldn’t the Asian background be celebrated in the personal essay or the activities perhaps, and not in the Stats? That’s where I’m questioning the utility of the descriptor.
I’ve been a perpetual foreigner all my life. It personally doesn’t bother me but I would never ask this of anyone Asian or not. I’m trying to find ways to help students that I feel are dealt with unprofessionally (for lack of a better word) in these boards. I’m sorry if I offended anyone. It was certainly not my intent.
3 Likes
Very carefully, because you have to stand out. This is all candidates, not just Asian Americans.
Would you mind elaborating for the benefit of the thread?
CC responses typically places great weight on hooked vs unhooked candidates and many high achieving Asian kids are unhooked so they’re thrown into the rest of the white/Asian non legacy category.
What should we tell them? Should we be brutally honest like the college counselors who tell kids not to mention they play the piano/violin and pretend you dont want to be a doctor?
These kids are smart. They see the statistics. They’re competing in the 15-25% Asian pool.
I think many CC posters try to congratulate these kids on their accomplishments and try to create a gentle landing spot and redirect the conversation to more matches and safeties.
What is an “Asian pool”? That is half of my OP.
Are we really saying that any kid descended from the UAE will be lumped into the same “bucket” as a kid with Japanese ancestry.
If so, wow.
1 Like
Sure. It’s the sheer volume of Asian American candidates coming from some schools in some places. I know New York metro, so I am going to talk about that.
There are XYZ organizations that exist, and all these bright eyed bushy tailed kids all putting it down on their CVs. Same sounding student orgs. It’s just not so interesting. Unless you rise to national prominence.
What would be interesting is learning a 3rd language (not related to your ethnicity) and using that to reach an underserved group. Say you are Korean-American, maybe learn Haitian Creole to conduct a voter drive. And writing an essay about how that links with your ethnic background. That is just more interesting than volunteering at Korean-American church or something in Fort Lee.
1 Like
The most brilliant college admission activity I saw was the org created by an Asian American kid to get other kids to offer free music lessons on zoom.
In one fell swoop, this very talented musician leveraged her network to credibly say that she is responsible for giving thousands and thousands of hours of free lessons away.
Ivy, natch.
I’m not sure what the 1500+, nonFG musical, STEM kid is really asking for on Chance me threads.
I agree with this advice, and would just point out it applies to ALL students not just Asians. If anyone reads my past posts, they will see I often say this. Kids need to realize there are probably 100,000 school presidents/vps/treasurers/secretaries. Even more doing debate or model UN or whatever. Not saying don’t do those things but realize you are swimming in a very big pool. It is critical to make your application unusual or memorable. It can be by doing something different, but it can also be by putting your activities into an unusual context.
2 Likes
Yes, absolutely. My advice would be no different to anyone.
2 Likes