You bring up a good point.
I have read many posts where “Asian” applicants are encouraged to apply to schools where they are under represented. But do those schools proactively reach out to prospective applicants to get them to apply and enroll? Like fly-ins for URMs.
Or are we here on CC assuming these “Asian” applicants will have an advantage?
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Well, hard to counter the Haberson blog + Harvard data IMO + anecdata.
Though, very hard to separate the effects of kids applying to these highly rejective programs from ethnic effects.
@neela1, I’m not surprised that the Asian parents got a call. I am familiar with the demographics of a peer school to yours. 20-25% monoracial Asians (Btw, picked a random year and zero kids not from the 2 largest U.S. Asian groups). IF the families had (by and large) listened to the counselors and nobody got in to EA/ED, there would be phone calls.
Not that the phone calls do anything! But you gotta get something for all that tuition.
@CFP, I have no doubt that there is a nascent cottage industry set up to advise middle school Asian American families (as well as US born Asians abroad) on how not to be a “typical” Asian student. 15 years ago, I doubt you would have seen many Asian names on a NYC fencing roster.
Well, males probably have an advantage applying to majority female SLACs. They don’t need to be flown in, do they?
Some of my thoughts…
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Recognize that at some point an SAT/ACT score is high enough and that increasing it will not bring additional benefits. Therefore, don’t tell a kid with a 1550 SAT they need to retest. And definitely don’t tell them “it’s somewhat low for an Asian” (yes, I’ve read this).
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If they have a very reachy list mention that those schools are a reach for pretty much everyone and not just for those of their ethnicity.
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If someone is passionate about STEM and is a highly accomplished kid shooting for top ranked schools, provide them your honest guidance and maybe add suggestions for targets and safeties if needed, but don’t disregard their aspirations and redirect them in a way that doesn’t make sense.
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No they don’t and that’s not what I was asking.
I’m curious to know if colleges that have a low percentage of Asian-American students actively reach out to Asian-American applicants to attract them to the college.
However, it is common that students do not want colleges that want them. For example:
- Students who want a certain major tends to pile into colleges known for that major, causing the major at those colleges to be more selective to stay within capacity. But the students do not want colleges where the major is under capacity, because they do not believe it is good there.
- Students do not want colleges where there are “too few” of their own race or ethnicity, perhaps out of fear of discrimination, or lack of cultural activities and amenities.
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Very true, but to some degree, I think “suck it up, buttercup”. It’s a strategy. No one has to apply to a particular school. It’s up to them if they want to maximize their chances, or not.
It’s a moving target isn’t it? A half-century ago, Wesleyan was considered, “Diversity University” because they were attempting to recruit African Americans in numbers approaching their percent in the U.S. population. If Americans thought of Asians at all, it was in the context of a major land war that was going on at the same time. Thus, the Freeman Asian Scholars program (named for the AIG co-founder, Manfred Freeman, Class of 1916) was born. To this date it is Wesleyan’s biggest merit scholarship program - but for internationals.
I can recall as recently as the 1990s Wesleyan having a separate admissions brochure directed at African Americans, Latino/Hispanics as well as one for Asian/Asian Americans. Indeed, in the chapter most devoted to the subject in, “The Gatekeepers” (circa early 2000s) it seems as though all it took was being non-white to have a “DIV” (denoting “diversity”) sticker attached to one’s file. Btw, the chapter that includes Tiffany Wang (begins around p.124) is FASCINATING, given the topic at hand.
I have a lot less contact with the admissions office than I did back then, so I am by no means positive what is still the practice. I am pretty sure there have been major changes in the outreach materials since then.
Ive never heard of that. Im sure there are schools that would love high achieving kids from any ethnicity because that would raise their class profile but Ive never heard of any selective college making an active effort to recruit Asian kids.
I don’t really know what I’m saying. I just find it off putting to tell someone to apply to a school where they are fewer of “you”. I feel the same about telling girls to apply to schools where there are more boys.
ETA: when I first moved to the US I was enthralled by the diversity of its people. I grew up in mostly mono cultural European countries and to me the benefits of diversity were easy to appreciate. Having lived here for close to 25 years now I see that diversity does not “happen” but needs “worked on”. It’s a new way of thinking for me for which I might not have developed the right language.
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Most of the fly-ins that my daughter looked at were aimed at first generation and low income students, but the ones that mentioned race included Asian-American students.
For example, Amherst’s Access to Amherst
“As part of Amherst College’s commitment to diversity, the Office of Admission will be hosting Access to Amherst (A2A) - formerly called Diversity Open House (DIVOH) - in the fall to introduce prospective applicants to Amherst’s campus, student body, faculty, and classes. A2A is available to all prospective students, but the selection committee prioritizes the invitation of students from historically excluded groups, such as African-American, Hispanic/Latinx American, Native American, and Asian-American backgrounds, as well as first-generation students. To support socioeconomic diversity, the selection committee will also prioritize students from families with limited financial resources, regardless of cultural or racial background. Those are priorities for participation, but are not meant to imply any exclusivity regarding the program or selection process. Should you have an interest in attending, we encourage you to apply no matter your demographic or economic background.”
And Wesleyan’s
Eligible students include those who identify as Black/African-American; Hispanic/Latinx; Asian-American; American Indian, Native Alaskan, and/or Pacific Islander, as well as first-generation college students and/or those from families with limited financial resources. Undocumented students are also welcome. Please note that we are unable to support international fly-ins.
And Oberlin’s
We encourage applications from students with diverse backgrounds. To be eligible for the program, a student must be from at least ONE of the following backgrounds:
- American Indian or Alaska Native
- Asian American
- Black or African American
- Hispanic/Latino(a)
- Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander
- Low-income
- First generation in your family to attend college
ETA: However, I don’t know how much active out-reach those colleges do to Asian-American students beyond what is written in their eligibility guidelines. It may depend on the high school, the average income level of its local community, and whether the school frequently sends students to that college.
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I guess my idea is that ethnicity shouldn’t be considered at all. That’s what I was trying to point out. But I appreciate the fact that my ideas probably do not represent reality and that race/ethnicity is front and center in college admissions.
I appreciate the feedback. I’ve been reflecting on your comment, but I am not sure that indicating that a characteristic of the applicant might be particularly interesting to a school (an underrepresented minority, sex, geographic location, etc) is negating the necessity for a college to do any work. If the school doesn’t do a good job showing the applicant some love (offers to have conversations with students or profs, fly-ins if the school has the $, scholarship money, special opportunities on campus, etc) then that would be patently obvious to the applicant, and I’d be surprised if the applicant would choose to apply and/or attend the school.
I think that any characteristic can be a handicap or a benefit. Students who want to major in CS at U. of Washington are majorly handicapped, no matter what other characteristics they have. That doesn’t mean people shouldn’t apply for that CS program. Just know that the odds of admission are much longer than if one wanted to major in history. Anyone who wants to apply to a Top X school is handicapped simply because there are far more highly qualified people who want those spots than there are spots. Students from the same high school who have a number of people applying to the same highly selective college have a handicap, because colleges are unlikely to take a large number of students from the same high school.
I guess my take is that I wouldn’t dwell on any “handicapping” effects of anyone’s characteristics. I would probably only mention it if it might be beneficial to the applicant. And so long as a student has a balanced list of schools they’re applying to, all should turn out well in the end.
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I think it is clear to everyone participating in this thread that Asian-American applicants and permanent residents/green-card holders are viewed differently as applicants than international students from Asian countries. And my understanding is that in this thread, people are talking about Asian-American applicants, right? However, when I read other threads, it seems that some posters sometimes use Asian to mean both groups.
I am not entirely sure how Asian international students who attend US boarding schools are considered. I’ve assumed that they are read with other international students as opposed to with other students from their school, but I’ve never asked and I could be wrong. Someone else here might know.
Depends on the institution.
Some colleges treat a graduate of a US high school no differently than a US citizen for financial aid, for example.
I don’t feel that way as a parent of girls.
Thank you for your well thought out response. I understand your reasoning a lot better.
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@mynameiswhatever I believe you posed the question a couple of times about what defines “Asian” for purposes of college admission. I’ve seen some comments but also more questions asking for clarification. These are the Census Bureau definitions of race. While I do not claim to know a correct answer I will say this is in line with what I think when an applicant mentions race in a Chance Me.
The U.S. Census Bureau must adhere to the 1997 Office of Management and Budget (OMB) standards on race and ethnicity which guide the Census Bureau in classifying written responses to the race question:
White – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.
Black or African American – A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.
American Indian or Alaska Native – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.
Asian – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.
Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.
The 1997 OMB standards permit the reporting of more than one race. An individual’s response to the race question is based upon self-identification.
An individual’s response to the race question is based upon self-identification. The Census Bureau does not tell individuals which boxes to mark or what heritage to write in. For the first time in Census 2000, individuals were presented with the option to self-identify with more than one race and this continued with the 2010 Census. People who identify with more than one race may choose to provide multiple races in response to the race question. For example, if a respondent identifies as “Asian” and “White,” they may respond to the question on race by checking the appropriate boxes that describe their racial identities and/or writing in these identities on the spaces provided.
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Thanks for this. That actually muddies the waters a bit, focusing on college apps. Where do applicants descended from the Middle East fall? Are they Asian.
It also underscores a conceptual problem that I have with a definition covering descendants of such a wide variety of countries (e.g., Japan contrasted with Bangladesh; Singapore contrasted with Cambodia; etc).
I guess none of us really know the answer from the AO perspectives? I am assuming that’s corrected, but I’m happy to be told otherwise. And is this the same case for all the “top schools”, Cal and UCLA, and perhaps others specifically excepted?
And how do WE, as CC responders, make any inferences about college admissions chances from the broad rubric “Asian”?
There is a lot to these questions, I admit.
There is a section after you check off Asian. So one can further specify.