Asian male legacy at Harvard? Advice for parent?

Parents Forum
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<p>thanks for all the advice! I tend to agree in some way with everything posted although I think I would rather try to gently shape the course of his high school career where I can to optimize his chances for later success… maybe similar to how you would water, prune, or even transplant flowers in your garden. if that means setting him up for Ivy admission, then I suppose that is a happy coincidence. But I’m never going to prune a tulip to a rose, or an oak to a dogwood, am I!?! I do see how you could suffocate or break a child with excessive pruning and I will try to avoid that trap.</p>

<p>To me, that means encouraging him to keep up a good GPA, as was mentioned a few times (even if sometimes he’d rather play video games) - which so far he has been able to do. Personally I wish that our school relied less on the computer for education so that internet and computer games were not such a distraction. But I suppose if they didn’t, he would just have to learn how to control it later.</p>

<p>In addition, I will encourage those EC where he is showing active interest - I think golf might be forcing the issue a bit, but hopefully sailing and skiing will provide that balance to the violin/science/computer programming that he is doing. The violin I don’t think he is passionate about (he does it because he wants to be competent), but the science and computers are from a genuine desire to learn more about those subjects. </p>

<p>I’m not too worried about standardized tests… I guess I may ask him to take the SAT next year just to see how he would do but previous performance would suggest that he would be fine without any additional test prep.</p>

<p>His GC echoed the curricular rigor and gave us a tentative schedule including APs. She told us rigor was more important than GPA.</p>

<p>I am actually realizing I am going to have a bigger problem with S2 - who while probably equally or more intelligent, just is not compliant and thinks that homework is optional even when it seriously drags down his grades. Hopefully he’ll grow out of that…</p>

<p>thanks for all the input!</p>

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From the bottom of my heart, I say Good Luck With That! If it ever happens for my son, I’ll come back and give you some hope.</p>

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<p>“Do you think my estimation that the Asian male / legacy thing cancel out is correct or totally off base?”</p>

<p>It is always an advantage to have the hook. I don’t believe that gender, nor being Asian versus white, has any meaningful impact.</p>

<p>My feeling is that it may be possible to push a child to achieve at a level that gets him into Harvard, but that the kids who are actually going to thrive at Harvard are the ones that don’t need much pushing. Your pruning analogy is apt. You want to reinforce good habits; you don’t want to mold the kid into a different plant.</p>

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<p>Gotta agree with those who suggest he choose his EC. If it isnt something he is passionate about, that can come through loud and clear on applications/in interviews.</p>

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<p>While I agree that S should pick his own EC, I think it’s fair to provide some input - i.e. if he is currently doing piano, violin, sailing, skiing, soccer, track (forgot although he didn’t do this year), trumpet, science olympiad, lego robotics, computer programming, chess, etc… that maybe it would be a good idea in 9th grade to focus on a few and take them as far as they can go. And that it probably wouldn’t hurt if those EC were unique in some way to distinguish him - as long as he didn’t feel strongly about one vs another. And also that being better at an EC, if interest is the same, might also be a reason to focus on that EC over another. </p>

<p>So I won’t force him to do junior ski patrol, although I will point out that it will probably help him get a ton of volunteer hours doing something he has SOME interest in… and might make for some interesting and hopefully unique essay topics if it comes down to it. </p>

<p>I do have some reservations about ski patrol though, but if he loves it, it does have some attractive qualities and may be memorable to an adcom? assuming he can write well about it!</p>

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Holy cow. He is doing all that already? Please don’t add more. If you want him to pare that down a bit, which seems like a good plan, which does HE have the passion for?? As he gets older, having leadership positios in some of the group/team/club activities will be helpful. If he is still enjoying all of these activities and its not too stressful for him, let him continue. Things may fall into place on their own. No need to artificially trim it down yet, IMO.</p>

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Believe it or not, it can happen. My youngest in middle school thought homework was stupid and showing work was a waste of time. Even though it meant getting a C in math and not being allowed to take accelerated math in high school. Eventually he managed to graduate from high school, attend a top 25 school in Engineering where he minored in math and is now in a PhD program. Sometimes they just take a little longer to get there.</p>

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<p>Asian discrimination was discussed in an episode of NPR’s On Point recently:
[Discrimination</a> Against Asians In College Admissions | On Point with Tom Ashbrook](<a href=“http://onpoint.wbur.org/2013/03/11/asian-discrimination]Discrimination”>http://onpoint.wbur.org/2013/03/11/asian-discrimination)</p>

<p>Not much new information presented, but it was an interesting discussion.</p>

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<p>I have to believe that this is too young to talk about anything but keep your grades up, develop some strong interests, learn how to treat people decently, develop at least a couple good friends, and have some fun. As a parent I can’t imagine anything being more important than that. </p>

<p>Harvard can bounce around your head but I wouldn’t articulate those hopes and dreams to him. Think of the devastating blow you could deliver to your son if he does not get in. </p>

<p>I think he should pick his EC based on passion. I am sure Harvard can see through the EC’s pick because they look good and those that are there for passion. Just picking up Golf for example wouldn’t be enough- you would have to excel for it to make a difference. </p>

<p>The kid entering high school is not at all the same as the kid exiting high school. A lot happens during those four years- emotional, messy, and wonderful things. Focus on raising a man, not a Harvard student. If Harvard or some other wonderful opportunity comes it is a bonus. If it doesn’t you still have succeeded.</p>

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<p>I have not read thoroughly, but I have skimmed. I agree with those who say that if your middle-schooler might be a candidate for Harvard or its peers four years from now, it’s not too early to start thinking about it. Not brow-beating him about it, of course, and not shopping for the sweatshirts and window decals just yet, but just thinking about it.</p>

<p>A friend of mine, who has done alumni interviews for Harvard for many years and who managed to pack her own kids off to Columbia and Harvard, gives two pieces of advice that go together in my mind: “let your extracurriculars tell your story,” and “begin with the end in mind.”</p>

<p>“Let your extracurricular activities tell your story.” If you’re a musician, besides being in the school orchestra, play in a jazz trio or a klezmer band or whatever fits your instrument. Do something over the summer that involves either performing or becoming a better musician. If you’re an outdoorsman, do a wilderness adventure program during the summer, or volunteer on a conservancy project in a state park, or something like that. You can, and should, still do the things you like, or the things that you find otherwise meaningful or valuable, but you should take some steps to make sure that the time you spend out of school lets people know what makes you tick.</p>

<p>“Begin with the end in mind.” By the time you’re filling out the Common Application in the fall of senior year, you want your extracurricular activities to show some kind of significant accomplishment. So, at the outset, figure out how you’re going to make that happen. Whatever you choose to do, whether it’s track or music or volunteering with little children or working in your family’s florist shop, make sure that year after year, you can show that you’ve acquired new skills, or taken on more responsibility, or somehow achieved some kind of demonstrable personal growth. Exactly how you do this will depend greatly, of course, on what you choose to do, and also on what you’re capable of doing. But have a goal and a plan, even if you have to adjust them along the way.</p>

<p>All of this, of course, is in addition to taking serious, demanding academic classes and doing well in them, and doing really well on standardized tests.</p>

<p>Naturally, with a 14-year-old, you can’t say with complete certainty who he’ll be four years from now. Teens change a lot during high school. Many teens develop new interests and let old interests drop. That’s all right–as long as you’re replacing old interests with new ones, rather than replacing old interests with marijuana and Xbox. I wasn’t too alarmed when my daughter, who wanted to be the star of the spring musical said basically, “I’m not getting anywhere in the drama department, but I’m really good at languages. I’m going to drop out of the musical and take Arabic at the community college instead.” But I wouldn’t have been as cool with it if she’d said, “I’m going to drop out of the musical and watch reruns of Full House on ABC Family.”</p>

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<p>^Yes, I think this is the philosophy I hope to take… and if HYPSM or some combination thereof is the goal … they say that if you shoot for the moon and miss…</p>

<p>we might still end up CM or HM or even our state school UM which isn’t too shabby.</p>

<p>But I think having some type of plan will be good for us.</p>

<p>Speaking of good for us, it might be best for my son (and me) if I took a bit of a break. I can have obsessive tendencies which don’t always serve me well.</p>

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<p>People have mentioned on CC over and over again about how adcom could see through ECs picked because they looked good. I would like to know some examples. D2 picked a volunteer work which gave out food to homeless people in NYC. She chose not to be a sandwich maker, but be the person to actually give out food. She often did that on very cold nights when no one wanted to go. I have asked her not to do it because of frigid temperature. She said to me, " I only have to be out there for few hours, but they have to be there all the time." So if an adcom could see through it as “padding my resume,” then they could be totally wrong. My niece went to a third world country to do some volunteer work. Her parents paid for it, but she was sincere with her intentions, not to pad her college application, which she didn’t care that much about. I would really like to know when an adcom looks at a kid’s ECs, how do they determine if an EC is a padding vs real interest? I don’t think I can, but of course I am not a paid professional when it comes to college admission.</p>

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<p>I completely agree with Sikorsky. It is a complete package to tell a story about an applicant.</p>

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<p>I would recommend against taking SAT as a freshman. You can take sat or act prior to HS and those scores will get “erased.” Once you start HS, all the scores stay and show, and some colleges require you to submit all scores. Thus, either take before HS, or take a practice test (blue book or practice test on CB SAT website) under timed conditions and score it yourself.</p>

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<p>I would be very careful here. Common knowledge on CC shows that they are equally important.</p>

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<p>Oldfort - to reply to your post about “forcing” ECs… I don’t think that an adcom can necessarily judge whether an EC is resume padding or not… but I do think that it is seriously unlikely that a student will be successful at an EC to the extent it matters for HYPSM unless he has an innate aptitude and internal motivation to succeed. </p>

<p>From what I am seeing in terms of elite admissions, in order for an EC to get noticed, it needs to be nationally recognized - whether that’s Siemens, Julliard caliber musician, athletics, etc. Community service would have to be way beyond a single humanitarian trip or even standing out in the cold handing out sandwiches to the homeless (as noble as that is). I think to get noticed, it would have to be in the league of Paul Farmer’s multiple trips to Haiti.</p>

<p>I suppose I could push my son to do Siemens and might make his achievements on par with the national caliber kids - after all, there are opportunities here and I could help him navigate them - but I don’t know if I want to be the one pushing him as opposed to him driving. He’s liable to be burnt out and for what purpose - unless he really wants to do academic research, that top tier school is in my mind irrelevant. He can go pre-med, pre-engineering, etc., with our state school. </p>

<p>That being said - I think the difference of opinion that I have from some of the posters here is that there really is a way to go deep that will matter… and if those opportunities are not presented, then my kid really has no chance at an elite if that’s what he wants. Well, maybe not so much a difference of opinion but of emphasis - I think you can be smart about knowing what opportunities might be a match for your kid and seeing if it lights a flame for them. If you pass those by, it’s certainly not the end of the world because I think my kid will end up at a good school - but missed opportunities are missed.</p>

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<p>OP- I guess I will have to respectfully disagree with you. You seem to be very versed in the colleage application process.</p>

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<p>I suppose they don’t. However I know a kid being groomed for Harvard who started his own foundation. I’m sure he was interested in helping people, but I’m also pretty sure he started the foundation to look good for college. There were other established organization that were doing the same work. In any event, he didn’t get into Harvard and is happily at NYU and the foundation is no longer in business.</p>

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<p>My opinion is that schools are looking for excellence and character. What I mean by character is often referred to as leadership. The best way to develop both excellence and character is to roll them together. The high school programmer can win programming contests and develop and excellent science fair project or hold down an adult-level programming job. He can also use that skill to make a website for a non-profit or start a programming club for middle-school kids who wouldn’t otherwise have the opportunity.</p>

<p>The musician can perform at the top of an ensemble and be all-state and also volunteer to teach those who would not otherwise have access to lessons, and/or play at a nursing home.</p>

<p>Those that are into sports can coach and referee, as well as captain their high school team. The most believable leadership roles are those that grow out of mastery, and the most impressive leadership roles are those that require initiative and satisfy a need in the community.</p>

<p>I would definitely encourage non-stereotypical Asian EC’s though. There are thousands of interesting things to do in the world. Why not branch out from what is expected?</p>

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<p>I think the ski patrol activity is an interesting EC, though obviously not a hook. Certainly you don’t have to worry about it being stereotypical.</p>

<p>First year of high school you just want to get adjusted and join activities that interest you (the kid). Do some browsing. You won’t be able to distinguish yourself sufficiently in an activity if you don’t have a genuine interest, so don’t overload yourself. Eventually, to be competitive, you will need to force yourself to do <em>something</em>, but now is not the time. </p>

<p>For HYP admissions, it’s very difficult to get in without founding some organization/activity. A lot of times it is a fundraiser of some kind, but it could be something else. The ideal thing would be to build it off an existing interest. If you are interested in becoming an academic and think you might enjoy teach as a career, you could start a free class or something. Look at your interests and see if there is an unmet need or gap that you could fill, to echo geomom’s post. For the OP’s kid, maybe it is something creative in the skiing arena. Free lessons for underpriveleged. Something with ski safety. Maybe expand the website of the resort. These things most often aren’t done until like junior year.</p>