<p>IF a college did not fill nearly half of their class with recruited athletes, affirmative action admits (i.e., URMs) and legacy, and if they admit students based on (academic) merits only and without racial balancing, such top school’s class can have a much larger percentage of its class as asian-americans, as high as 40% ([Why</a> Caltech Is in a Class by Itself](<a href=“http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/12/why_caltech_is_in_a_class_by_i.html]Why”>http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/12/why_caltech_is_in_a_class_by_i.html)), as opposed to 15-19% ([“Yale</a> Tops Harvard in First-Year Selectivity”](<a href=“Index of /”>Index of /)). This is why I say, for comparable stats and ECs, the asian-american acceptance rate could be less than half those of other races.</p>
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@leanid, when I say Asians, I mean Asian-Americans. Students coming from an asian country (who is not US citizen or resident) are internationals and not even the subject under consideration.</p>
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Shrinkrap, if you are not bullied in school, you don’t know how the bully victims feel. If you have not been discriminated against, you don’t know how the discrimination feels. You just said the truth in a twisted way: “how race might affect viewpoint”… that the ‘racial-balancing in college admission feels to asian americans’. I as an Asian-American parent with children attending colleges have experienced first hand what the Floridadad said:
This statement by Floridadad is a very accurate description of what I have experienced over the last couple of years when I posted this extreme disadvantage that the Asian-American high school graduates are suffering when they apply to gain admission to top colleges. When I posted a similar post in Harvard forum last year around admission decision date, an asian girl from chicago area (apparently a Harvard alum) was the first to come out and mock the post. What the Floridadad say here is the truth.</p>
<p>These “super-selective” schools also “disadvantage” women in the admissions process since they get more female applicants and yet try to balance the class. If accepted according to more objective criteria, the classes would be 55-60% female which would be undesirable to many. I find this easier to accept and understand by believing that a diverse student body adds to everyone’s education and the applicants are competing against their own demographic for admission. The creation of an entire freshman class requires some balancing which may be a euphemism for quotas.</p>
<p>With 30,000 high schools in this country, it is arrogant to think that any one high school “should” have an acceptance to HYPS. What part of “there isn’t enough room for everyone who is qualified” is unclear? It amazes me when people talk about their high schools where kids get into multiple top schools and they don’t seem to understand that by definition they are talking about extremely privileged settings.</p>
<p>There are more female applicants in general but I believe that there are more “high stat (ACT/SAT and SAT IIs)” males than “high stat” females.</p>
<p>Correct me if I am wrong.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why more asians don’t play sports if they think this broadens one’s opportunity for admission. Athletics are a colorblind-equal-opportunity activity. By not participating, you have cut yourself out of OP’s asserted “nearly half” the admitted class.</p>
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pizzagirl, what do you mean “it is arrogant to …”?? It is not a matter of arrogance, it is what you expect if you are a common sense person. Kids ranked within the top 1% of a high school class, which school is ranked well inside of the top 0.5% of the 30,000 high schools in the country, I would easily expect they have an excellent shot at the HYPS… schools. Some of these kids also have amazing talents … perform at the Carnegie Hall, rank in the Siemens/Intel science competition, win the national science competition. pizzagirl, what is your expectation.</p>
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Well, that’s an interesting question. Why? perhaps their value, perhaps their self selection in that it is hard to compete … my two children participated in the town sports clubs, school sports teams and high school varsity teams. They did ok, but not as god as to be recruited for it. There are some asian-american kids who do get recruited in more individually oriented sports like tennis, cross country, swimming, etc. </p>
<p>About
I admit it is a bit of stretch — 40-45% maybe … check yourself: [Why</a> Caltech Is in a Class by Itself](<a href=“http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/12/why_caltech_is_in_a_class_by_i.html]Why”>http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/12/why_caltech_is_in_a_class_by_i.html)</p>
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<p>“Shrinkrap, if you are not bullied in school, you don’t know how the bully victims feel. If you have not been discriminated against, you don’t know how the discrimination feels. You just said the truth in a twisted way: “how race might affect viewpoint”… that the ‘racial-balancing in college admission feels to asian americans’. I as an Asian-American parent with children attending colleges have experienced first hand what the Floridadad said:”</p>
<p>“toughyear” I have been bullied and I have been discriminated against. I have also hung out on this board for way more years than i care to admit. And I have read or participated on almost every thread where the word “affirmative action” is tagged. Floridadad knows this. And Floridadad might say that because my kids are fairly well off, even though they are black, they would not have any perspective that is different from he or his kids. I say his view of "most of “collegeconfidential” is an example of why that is not true. I do NOT see “most of CC” as supportive of affirmative action, I do not see most Asian kids saying nothing, I do not see "most of the people on CC have no problem with the way asians (okay, maybe most have a problem with how URM’s ) are treated in the college admission process. To me, it seems like "all anybody wants to talk about! Who is right? Neither of us has done research on the opinions of “most of CC”. I can tell you there are a few people who make the most noise, but that is not research. </p>
<p>I am sure I am more sensitive to anti- AA sentiment because I am black. I am sure he is more sensitive to Anti semitic sentiment, and you to anti-Asian sentiment. Yet floridadad and I are not poor! How can it be that people of different races can have a different experience, a different world view if they are not poor?</p>
<p>Pizzagirl:</p>
<p>The issue is not whether there is not enough room for everyone at the top schools. With acceptance rates of only 10%, or even less, that is a given. The issue is that in order to admit URMs, super qualified asian-americans are being rejected, in favor of URMs that while often pretty good candidates, are often truly not even in the same league as the asians being rejected. And often the asians being rejected are from poor families, and have had much tougher lives than some middle and upper middle class URMs who are given their spots. I have no solution to the problem, because I think everyone would find it distasteful if there were no URMs at our top colleges, but let us not pretend that asian-americans have nothing to complain about. They didn’t discriminate against african-americans. Yet they are being asked to pay the price to remedy that discrimination. And what was their “crime”? To work really hard, and be tip top students. And to outshine other racial groups BY FAR. I am not saying that there should be no affirmative action for URMs, but the system has devolved into a situation where URMs are admitted just for the sake of achieving “diversity”, even though a particular URM may not have had a difficult life at all. Under the current situation, for example, Barack Obama’s daughters would be given preference, in the interest of achieving “divesity”, even though they plainly have not lead disadvantaged lives. It is easy for us to tell the asian-americans to simply grin and bear it, because, by and large, WE don’t make OUR kids grin and bear it. Instead, we have selected THEIR children to grin and bear it. And then we try to justify it by stereotyping the asians as humorless, nerdy academic grinds, who somehow therefore deserve their fate.
We do this by proclaiming that there shall be “holistic” admission standards. Which really simply means SUBJECTIVE admission criteria, because if we simply went by OBJECTIVE admission standards, we really couldn’t reject them with a straight face.</p>
<p>Oh god, another ‘Asians are discriminated against’ thread, which is pretty ironic, since i think that asians occupy the largest percentages in nearly all fields higher education. Posts like these make me wonder if the people who make these threads would only be happy if universities were 100% asian.</p>
<p>It’s well known that Asian students game the test taking system. However that simply isn’t enough, especially when you have hundreds, if not thousands of applicants, with the same stats. </p>
<p>I’ve never quite understood how some people feel they’re entitled to or they’ve earned their place at a given university, and it was ‘taken’ by some URM. The truth is, at least with all the universities you named, these are private universities, and they can set whatever criteria they want for their admissions. But just because the criteria that they use doesn’t particularly favor you, or the things you deem as ‘important’ for being admitted into a university doesn’t mean you’re ‘discriminated’ against.</p>
<p>Asian students make up a large majority of many of the top universities. It’s not as if you’re talking about blacks or native americans, both of whom usually make up less than 5% of admissions of most universities (with stanford being a notable exception at 10% black)</p>
<p>Ultimately, the truth is, If your child gets rejected, asian or not, it’s simply due to the fact that the university didn’t feel that your child was competitive enough in light of other factors.</p>
<p>“It’s well known that Asian students game the test taking system.”</p>
<p>My parents spent less than $100 for the bluebook and SAT II prep books.
I guess I “game the test taking system”.</p>
<p>toughyear, you’ve posted that you have one child at an Ivy League school and another at a top non-Ivy. It’s a tad difficult for me to accept that your children have actually been discriminated against in admissions under these circumstances.</p>
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<p>Let’s spread the blame, quote unquote, a bit more, and talk about the effects of legacy and developmental admissions. Legacy is no slam-dunk at these schools, but it is a highly significant tip. Those tips are taking away spots from super qualified unhooked (fill in whatever highly represented ethnicity you want). At least with legacy the student has to be academically qualified, but there’s no such restriction when it comes to a developmental admit. </p>
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<p>The Obama girls are going to be given preference in college admissions because they’re children of a US President, which is pretty much one of the most hooky of hooks. Their ethnic background is waaaaay behind this in importance for an admissions office.</p>
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<p>Nope. Your child can be competitive and still be rejected…because there simply aren’t enough seats for these schools to admit everyone who is “qualified”.</p>
<p>Your child can be competitive and still be rejected…because there simply aren’t enough seats for these schools to admit everyone who is “qualified”.</p>
<p>SlitheyTove</p>
<p>How do you interpret this?
I attended one of the best HS in the country. And, my HS usually have multiple acceptances from Princeton, Penn, Columbia, Cal Tech and Stanford and so on. However, Asian males RARELY get accepted from those schools even with max-stats, interesting ECS and awards. In fact, zero acceptance from those colleges in the past three years.</p>
<p>Are we (Asian-American males) just unlucky or “not good enough” compare to white students or URMs?</p>
<p>“Nor should they be penalized because they seem to value academics more than other ethnic groups. Not to mention the fact that colleges are purposely rejecting the most super qualified applicants. Don’t we want the very best doctors, engineers, etc. that we can find?”</p>
<p>Maybe for doctors, but not for all fields…</p>
<p>Student 1) 4.0 GPA Econ major, no extracurricular activities</p>
<p>Student 2) 3.75 GPA, Econ major, sports, many other extracurricular activities, social service, etc.</p>
<p>I would rather hire student #2 who is more well rounded and won’t be socially awkward at trade shows, company dinners, etc.</p>
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<p>Not good enough in sports, but only for lack of trying.</p>
<p>Bay</p>
<p>What do you do if you are not a good athlete?</p>
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<p>Or is it white and legacy applicants, rather than the small number of URMs, who would be the main beneficiaries of widely believed limitations on and higher standards applied to Asian American applicants, at highly selective universities?</p>
<p>Funny how this possibility is usually ignored in most of these discussions.</p>
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<p>So do people of all racial and ethnic groups.</p>
<p>Are we (Asian-American males) just unlucky or “not good enough” compare to white students or URMs?</p>
<p>…or Asian females…hmmmmm…wouldn’t THAT be an interesting thread! Certainly white male and black female discussions are interesting. It’s complicated…</p>