"The Asian Factor"

Applying to College
1

<p>There is a certain X factor to college admissions - some call it a "hook," some call it the "crapshoot variable." To a large degree, that X factor has become synonymous with the "race card." With no intention of being either a troll or a whiner, I am posing two questions to my fellow CCers:</p>

<p>1) Do you think Asian-American applicants suffer from their lack of URM status combined with a (statistical) lack of the prep school and legacy advantages traditionally attributed to Caucasians? Or would you argue that they in fact benefit from a combination of minority status and the more nurturing environment of upper-middle-class students?</p>

<p>2) If you feel Asian-American applicants do suffer, do you disagree in either a sense of "fairness" or a sense of "sound policy" with respect to the need for colleges to maintain diversity? One argument for Affirmative Action points out that URMs have traditionally found the paths to important roles in society blocked by discrimination, and that this discrimination could even come into play in admissions; conscious Affirmative Action could be considered a correction for existing problems. But do Asian-Americans suffer from "positive" or "negative" discrimination? Does the assumption that they are talented applicants translate to an assumption that they are capable employees in the workforce? Does that matter?</p>

<p>I think this is a relevant question to ask in college admissions, and we Asians whine about it so much (;)) that perhaps an overall discussion is in order, preferably not on the "Chances" threads of URM applicants.</p>

2

<p>is it unfair that asian parents push their children from an early age towards getting into a better college whereas caucasian parents push their kids towards having a good childhood?</p>

<p>Is it fair to make sweeping generalizations based on race? </p>

<p>Does George Bush really hate black people? More at 11.</p>

3

<p>Your first point is well taken. By the way I see no relevance to your last point, even if it's a joke at the expense of our president.</p>

4

<p>It turns out that most stereotypes in life are in reality half TRUTHS - some positive and some negative - however one has to keep quiet about these things - lest if offend the PC Police</p>

5

<p>Asians don't suffer as long as they don't apply as science/engineering majors.</p>

6

<p>My D goes to a high school in which a fairly large percentage of students -- more than 30% --is Asian. An even larger percentage of students in the top 10% is Asian. I have been impressed over the years by the great dedication of many of these kids to achieve, whether it is in academics, the arts, or in instrumental music. The notion of colleges discriminating against these kids in the name of diversity appalls me, in the same way that selecting kids for a sports team to fulfill a color quota would. Even though my non-asian D can't seem to crack the top 10% in this school (which lets her out of some state school scholarship $), when she'd have no problem in most other schools in our state, it still seems wrong. Olympic athletes get to the Olympics because of life-long training. Kids who train all of there lives to achieve academically shouldn't be left out because of being Asian. Unfortunately, leaving race blank on an app won't help because of names. So unfair. I'm not naive enough to miss the point of college's wanting diversity to make themselves more attractive, but it still bugs me. The resentment some kids have toward Asians is sad.</p>

7

<p>I believe that on occasion, Asians do suffer. I have viewed some statistics of certain schools, which also include the race of the applicant, and Asians with ostensibly superlative SAT scores and GPA's have been denied and Caucasians with lower and less acceptable academic criteria have been admitted. I think there are certain "quotas" for Asians becuase generally they score higher than any other race. Ultimately, if schools based their decision solely on SAT scores then Universities would be comprised of chiefly Asians (which some are, especially on the west coast). I think it's a form of prejudice and it's inequitable. Decisions should be made regardless of race and color.</p>

8

<p>I believe Qwilde is making up numbers to support his point. I seriously doubt he can get the SAT scores of denied applicants and therefore support his argument. Also, just because you had high SAT scores doesn't mean you should get into any school. There are lots of other considerations involved. Even if someone who had high SAT scores was denied, that is not sufficient to support race discrimination. What an inflamatory, unsubstantiated post.</p>

9

<p>It is true, however, that Asians have the highest average scores on not just the SAT, but many other examinations as well. Why is it that not all the top universities and colleges are Asian-dominated?</p>

10

<p>I resent the comment that I fabricated statistics, but I'm sorry if I offended you. The question was based on a generalization, so no matter how I word an answer it will probably seem sectarian. However, here are a few statistics and statements regarding race analysis:</p>

<p>"SAT mathematics scores for Asian students at the lowest family income levels exceeded those at virtually the highest levels for other groups." nsf.gov</p>

<p>"In the 1995 freshman class at the University of California at Irvine, the 75th percentile math SAT scores of blacks admitted were a remarkable 20 points lower than the corresponding scores of whites in the 25th percentile. UC Irvine actually rejected 1,516 Asians and 546 whites whose math SAT scores were higher than the median score for black enrollees, as well as 879 Asians and 637 whites whose verbal SAT scores were better than the black enrollee median. Not surprisingly, the graduation rate for that cohort of blacks was about 47 percent, as opposed to 68 percent for whites and 73 percent for Asians."</p>

<p>1,909 Asian Americans (or 64.9 percent of all Asian-American rejectees) and 2,041 whites (62.0 percent) who were rejected by UCSD had math SAT scores higher than the African-American enrollee median
722 Asian Americans (24.5 percent) and 1,549 whites (47.0 percent) who were rejected had verbal SAT scores higher than the African-American enrollee median
583 Asian Americans (19.8 percent) and 1,147 whites who were rejected (34.8 percent) had both higher verbal SAT scores and math SAT scores than did the median African-American enrollee
222 Asian Americans (7.2 percent) and 325 whites (9.0 percent) who were rejected had GPAs higher than the median GPA for African-American enrollees
49 Asian Americans (1.7 percent) and 138 whites (4.3 percent) who were rejected had higher verbal SAT scores, math SAT scores, and GPAs than did the African-American enrollee medians.
ceousa.org</p>

<p>Articles
<a href="http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/10/10/asianhttp://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8716%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/10/10/asianhttp://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8716&lt;/a>
<a href="http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8716%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8716&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>There are many more statistical analysis papers and documents if you look. There are also online sites that people list their statistics and indicate whether they were admitted to certain schools. You will often find there are Asians with incredible scores, who were denied, and there are caucasians with definitively lower scores who were accepted. It seem's, as if colleges are perversely trying to de-asianify.</p>

<p>Decisions should not be based on color or ethnicity, but on merit. Personally, I don't list that I'm an immigrant and that I'm Irish.</p>

11

<p>bakke v. california all over again.</p>

12

<p>Asians are held at a disadvantage when it comes to admissions. Period.</p>

13

<p>They certainly don't have an advantage, let's just say that.</p>

14

<p>But what about the second question? Do they also suffer from affirmative action as employees, or does it help? Are they discriminated against or in favor of?</p>

15

<p>You know, the thing about life is that once you're out of the college admission/(maybe) graduate school, no one really cares whether you're Asian or Black, etc. as long as you're GOOD. In the real world, there is no Affirmative Action, no "quotas" (except for manybe politics, lol). Even though I don't think Affirmative Action is fair, if you're good, you are good, so at the end of the day you will (probably) get the job you wanted. Plus, Asians are still WAY over represented in terms of numbers in most universities respective to the number of Asians in America. Life could be worse... </p>

<p>Though yes, my life would be better if there were no Affirmative Action.</p>

16

<p>I think this all goes to show how this is a white man's world. and how the white man is trying to pull down and raise other races to the white mans average</p>

17

<p>The only reason why the Asian population is having a more difficult time in terms of elite college admissions, is because of how admissions has changed at these schools over the past number of years. Because there are thousands of applicants at the ivy league and the majority of them have the grades and standardized test scores, the elite colleges are looking for applicants who stand out from the others. While it may sound like a stereotype, many Asians excell in math and science, have extremely high SAT scores, and are proficient at an instrument such as violin, flute, piano ect. As Golden points out in his book about the high price of college admissions and who gets left outside the gates - Asian applicants have the most difficult time with college acceptances to the elite schools - because due to the nature of their Asian culture where they are encouraged to excell in certain areas, many of these extraordinary applicants appear too similar. This is exacerbated when they come from the same geographic area.
Asian applicants can however win at the admission game, but to do so they might to distinguish themselves from the other Asian applciants.</p>

18

<p>The only reason why the Asian population is having a more difficult time in terms of elite college admissions, is because of how admissions has changed at these schools over the past number of years. Because there are thousands of applicants at the ivy league and the majority of them have the grades and standardized test scores, the elite colleges are looking for applicants who stand out from the others. While it may sound like a stereotype, many Asians excell in math and science, have extremely high SAT scores, and are proficient at an instrument such as violin, flute, piano ect. As Golden points out in his book about the high price of college admissions and who gets left outside the gates - Asian applicants have the most difficult time with college acceptances to the elite schools - because due to the nature of their Asian culture where they are encouraged to excell in certain areas, many of these extraordinary applicants appear too similar. This is exacerbated when they come from the same geographic area.
Asian applicants can however win at the admission game, but to do so they might to distinguish themselves from the other Asian applciants.</p>

19

<p>Mintie, you sure are idealistic!</p>

<p>I think after the new book by WSJ Dan Golden, it has become clear that Asians are at a disadvantage in college admissions. He claims they need 50 points higher on the SATs to be even with white applicants. He also revealed that in general they are given lower scores on "personal qualities" by adcoms.</p>

<p>Someone has always suffered. Blacks, Jews, you name it. </p>

<p>Is it fair? NO! Is much in life not fair? YES!</p>

<p>Legacies, athletes and development (rich) kids get as much or more of a boost in admissions than URMs. Much of the corporate world is still very white and very male.</p>