<p>Let's start a poll!</p>
<p>For the Asians in here at least.</p>
<p>Are you for or against affirmative action? And...do you take affirmative action personally?</p>
<p>I am firmly against affirmative action, especially in college admissions. I actually had a debate on this in my AP Goverment class. Here are several reasons:</p>
<p>1) Affirmative action is supposed to be compensation for minorities whose ancestors have been horribly discriminated in the US in the past (black slaves, Mexicans, etc). However, most of the people who currently benefit from affirmative action are recent immigrants from Africa, who are not descendents of former slaves.
2) Although Asians did not suffer as much discrimination compared to blacks and Hispanics, Asians are discriminated more currently. For example, in elementary school, I lived in an area with mostly black people, and I was often picked on by both black and white kids, because I was the only Asian.
3) Since Asians are a minority, I consider it discrimination for colleges to reject Asians just for being Asian. It is true that the percentage of Asians in top schools greatly exceed the percentage of Asians in the US. However, because of the culture, Asian students are usually very hardworking. It's not fair for some black guy to take a slot that an Asian kid deserves at a good college. It encourages people, such as rich black athletes, to be lazy.</p>
<p>There are a plethora of other arguments, but I feel that this already enough evidence of the flaws of affirmative action.</p>
<p>i'm asian =D i guess i qualify =D
08.08.1991 is clearly racist lol "rich black athetes to be lazy"...i had always thought atheletes were hardcore lol...i guess 08.08.1991 is just another bitter asian kid out there o.O probably ever consider colleges look a bit into personality than just simply stats? o.O probably those urms have more worthwhile experiences than you lol</p>
<p>I'm white, so I obviously can't speak as an Asian here.</p>
<p>But, I've always wondered where the vehemency against affirmative-action from Asian-Americans came from; it seems like the totally wrong target. Asian-American applicants aren't hurt because of Affirmative-Action, they are hurt in-spite of it. They are hurt in the admissions process because admissions officers consciously or unconsciously hold the same stereotypes about Asians that most people on these forums do. There is an assumption that Asians are swarming top colleges, and that they are all just "math drones." The problem is that if you get rid of affirmative-action, that racism is still going to exist. </p>
<p>All these studies that are cited by the anti-affirmative-action about how whites aren't really affected by affirmative action because 4/5 of the spots would go to Asian applicants, they are all flawed. They all assume that without affirmative-action that the world will be color-blind. That's false. Racism against Asians will still exist in the college applications process. Getting rid of it would just make things slighty (very slightly) easier on already privileged white applicants.</p>
<p>What really needs to be done is to work on correcting racist stereotypes.</p>
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<p>One of the smartest things I've heard in a while.</p>
<p>"It's not fair for some black guy to take a slot that an Asian kid deserves at a good college. It encourages people, such as rich black athletes, to be lazy."</p>
<p>So you're saying Asians deserve to be at a good college over Blacks? ... And most blacks are not rich. If you're able to become a D1 athlete, or go professional straight away, it's because you work very hard. Those athletes push their bodies to the extreme, which is why they usually end up with damaged knees and various other body parts. I feel being a D1 athlete and being a 4.0 GPA student with all the top credentials take the same amount of work. </p>
<p>It's true that us URM's have ancestors that went through a lot of crap back in the day. But I think it's a pretty weak argument that Asians experience more racism than Blacks and Hispanics, because they don't. And because of society, we still go through a lot more crap. </p>
<p>Sure, Affirmative Action is to our benefit, but do you think we like some bitter college rejects telling us we're the reason they didn't get into college, when the real reason is that they were under qualified, and didn't take advantage of all the opportunities they had?</p>
<p>If everyone didn't give URM's such a hard time, maybe they'd be hearing us speak out a bit more about A.A.</p>
<p>Oh dearie me. Another AA thread. Here it goes again...</p>
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<p>Your assumption that I am racist is based on flawed logic. For your information, I am friends with people of all races, including many blacks and Hispanics. However, I am not friends with anyone who racially discriminates. As I have mentioned before, I have been a victim of racial discrimination myself when I was a kid. It is true that affirmative action can cause people to be lazy, including rich black athletes, who arguably benefit the most from affirmative action. They can do much poorer academically than middle-class Asians (such as myself) in order to get into a good college. You saying that I am racist because of that makes no sense at all, in fact, it was originally brought up by my AP Government teacher during a class debate on affirmative action.</p>
<p> [quote=Armando] So you're saying Asians deserve to be at a good college over Blacks? ... And most blacks are not rich. If you're able to become a D1 athlete, or go professional straight away, it's because you work very hard. Those athletes push their bodies to the extreme, which is why they usually end up with damaged knees and various other body parts. I feel being a D1 athlete and being a 4.0 GPA student with all the top credentials take the same amount of work.</p>
<p>It's true that us URM's have ancestors that went through a lot of crap back in the day. But I think it's a pretty weak argument that Asians experience more racism than Blacks and Hispanics, because they don't. And because of society, we still go through a lot more crap.
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<p>I'm not saying Asians deserve to be at better colleges than blacks at all! I just believe that when comparing the percentage of academically skilled Asians in the US with the percentage of academically skilled African-Americans, the Asian percentage is higher. That DOES NOT mean that the blacks who are academically skilled should give their spots to Asians, because if they are truly academically skilled, they are able to get into top colleges just as easily as the academically skilled Asians without affirmative action.</p>
<p>Also, I personally have nothing against athletes. I was just using "rich black athletes" as an example, because they benefit the most from affirmative action. I know that not that many black people are rich. In fact, most of the rich black people are recent immigrants from Africa, whose ancestors did not suffer racial discrimination. That strengthens my argument, because most of the people benefitting from affirmative action are those African immigrants, not the descendants of former slaves whom affirmative action is supposed to benefit.</p>
<p>Against; from each according to his ability, to each according to his ability.</p>
<p>Way to almost quote Marx (and completely contradict him) dude.</p>
<p>the claim that you were inclined to be racially biased was based on the belief that rich african athletes should be valued less than middle class academically inclined asians...i guess i'm wrong at that comment sorry...wow looking back at my previous comment...i apologize for the tone...i don;t know i guess i just woked up and was bitter why my breakfast was so bad =( lol...anyhow...i just thought being an athlete requires more than acing all your classes. Also colleges do not only cared about academic skillz lol...i think they care as much about your personal circumstances and individuality and experiences
08.08.1991, if you're taking gov right now i guess you're already a senior so there's really no point in debating about this lol =D enjoy the rest of your senior year!!!</p>
<p>The sad fact is that in this country, only blacks, Hispanics, Irish Catholics, Native Americans, and Muslims are "allowed" to be victims. If a Jew or an Asian faces discrimination, or is quota-ed by a top college, it's ok because we managed to be successful in this country even though we started out in slums as well. The Politically Correct mafia could care less about Jews and Asians. </p>
<p>This is not to say that the above mentioned groups have not faced extreme hardship and discrimination in this country, they definitely have. My point is that no one seems to want to acknowledge that Jews and Asians have too.</p>
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<p>Apology accepted. My main concern regarding affirmative action is based on race, not athletic ability. I think that athletic ability should obviously be a factor in college admissions, but sports should be secondary to academics. Between a 2.0 superior athlete and a 4.0 academic genius, the academic genius should be accepted. But if it was between a 3.5 superior athlete and a 4.0 academic genius, then the athlete should be favored, and I have no problem with that.</p>
<p>Also, I am not a senior. I'm a sophomore.</p>
<p>basically what id say is take off the category which asks for race on a college app</p>
<p>and if there such a thing as affirmative action - make it based on income not race</p>
<p>actually..if u take a look here..asians r at a disadvantage BECAUSE of affirmative action</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority</a></p>
<p>A 2005 Princeton study showed Asians (not whites) bear nearly 80% of the cost of affirmative action in college admissions. Nearly four out of every five spots given to blacks and Hispanics in an affirmative-action regime would go to Asians in a purely merit-based system.</p>
<p>The average cost or benefit of college affirmative action in terms of SAT points (on 1600-point scale) is as follows:</p>
<pre><code>* Blacks: +230
* Hispanics: +185
* Asians: −50
* Recruited Athletes: +200
* "Legacies" (children of alumni): +160
</code></pre>
<p>Though I'm not Asian, I feel affirmative action is wrong. College spots should be based on aptitude, not who your ancestors were. I don't care if a college ends up being mostly white, mostly black, mostly Asian, or mostly whatever, so long as anyone can get in based on skill, not race.</p>
<p>I agree with everyone that stereotypes are totally wrong.</p>
<p>This site has good stats on SAT/ACT scores compared to ethnicity.
<a href="http://www.blackexcel.org/06-sat-act-scores-by-race-ethnicity.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.blackexcel.org/06-sat-act-scores-by-race-ethnicity.htm</a></p>
<p>Ironically, those who chose "prefer not to respond" scored highest on average. Asians on average only score .1 higher on the ACT than Caucasians. So obviously, Asians do not have that much of an advantage.</p>
<p>I'd be for Affirmative Action... if it was based on socio-economic factors, and not by race.</p>
<p>I agree with sleepy_sentry, financial, racial stuff shouldn't be taken into the consideration of acceptance, you can apply for aid/support after you actually qualify for the college, but then that would be an Utopian world now wouldn't it?</p>
<p>I'm surprised everyone seemed to skip over post #12</p>
<p>
[quote]
The sad fact is that in this country, only blacks, Hispanics, Irish Catholics, Native Americans, and Muslims are "allowed" to be victims. If a Jew or an Asian faces discrimination, or is quota-ed by a top college, it's ok because we managed to be successful in this country even though we started out in slums as well. The Politically Correct mafia could care less about Jews and Asians.</p>
<p>This is not to say that the above mentioned groups have not faced extreme hardship and discrimination in this country, they definitely have. My point is that no one seems to want to acknowledge that Jews and Asians have too.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>i think it brings up an excellent point.</p>
<p>Like others here, AA should be based on socioeconomic conditions and quality of schooling. Race shouldn't matter.</p>