One of my Asian friends, who is salutatorian of my school, got rejected from Columbia early action. I do not find that super surprising; however, one of my African-American friends, who is around rank 60, got into Columbia. My Asian friend has a lot more awards, extracurricular, better SAT scores, and works harder (sleeps less than 5 hours a day), so I feel kinda sry for her :(. Do you think AA is unfair?
History is unfair, life is unfair, socioeconomic conditions are unfair. In the grand scheme of things, this is a relatively minor inequity if indeed it is one at all. I’m sure your salutatorian will do just fine.
Extracurriculars are subjective, and most of the time you don’t know the whole story. The rank 60 could have written incredible essays, had absolutely glowing teacher recommendations, (two extremely important factors in the admissions process), experienced extenuating circumstances etc.
Race is certainly a factor, which is something you probably can’t change so you’ll have to learn to accept it.
Uhh, since when is it a badge of honor to sleep less than five hours a day? Especially as a high school kid. I’ll get my eight hours per night, and because I’m rested, outperform anyone who is sleep deprived. Life is to be lived, and some colleges aren’t that impressed with stressed out super achievers.
Columbia is worse off for not having her. She will be much happier at a college that wants her. Eventually Asians will wise up and stop applying so much, go to schools that want them, get rich, and give their money to those schools. That is exactly what happened to Michigan in the 1920’s when the Ivys started discriminating against Jews.
Yes. I think that so-called Affirmative Action in the US is being abused and has completely lost its original purpose, at least in regards to college admissions. There is absolutely no reason why universities can’t use family income, quality of high school, first generation status, etc. as substitutes for Affirmative Action. Since certain groups (African-Americans, Hispanics, and Native-Americans) are more likely to live in poverty, more likely to attend poorly funded high schools, and are more likely to be first generation college students, a race-blind admissions process that looks at these factors would still level the playing field.
Some people would contend that Affirmative Action SHOULD unfairly benefit these groups, since the United States government has previously discriminated against non-Whites for hundreds of years. However, if you examine Affirmative Action’s effect on Asian-American students applying to college, you’ll find that Affirmative Action does not strive to accomplish social justice. Even though immigrants from certain Asian countries have been discriminated against in the past, and have faced unfair obstacles to success in this country, Affirmative Action responds by creating higher standards for Asian-American students.
Today, the goal of AA in the college admissions process is not to combat injustice, but rather to enable college admissions officers to artificially craft their student bodies on the basis of ethnicity. MIT doesn’t want their student population to be 90% Asian, which would be the result of race-blind admissions. Personally, I see nothing wrong with my college being 90% Asian, because I’m not a racist. But that’s besides the point.
@Nevets04 Using income instead of race opens up a completely different can of worms though. Poor whites (<20k income) have virtually the same SAT scores as rich AAs (>250k). Using income in place of race would cause even more disparity within colleges and would reaffirm the racist notion that black people just simply aren’t as smart as everyone else.
It happens. For Asian-Americans (and I am one, mind), we will be expected to not only deliver in academics but also be unique in extra-curricular pursuits. I wouldn’t say that it’s because we’re being discriminated against, it’s because there are just too many high qualified Asian applicants. I chuckled at @Nevets04 's hypothetical of a 90% Asian class.
Cultural, socioeconomic and ethnic diversity adds quite a bit to the quality of education, in my opinion.
Hear, hear. Well put.
@marvin100 The University of California system still has said diversity without the use of affirmative actions. Instead, programs that encourage education in minorities could be used to promote higher acceptance rates within these communities
When I first began researching the college process, I quiickly realized that males are heavily favored over females at most top colleges. I think about 25% more females apply to top colleges than males, and at the most selective LACS, the percentage is higher. Yet the top colleges will still try to admit 50-50, and males with lower grades and test scores will have an advantage. White and Asian girls are the most affected by this. I suppose this is why colleges do look at many other factors, such as first gen to college. It still annoys me, but there is nothing that can be done about it. I do get it, and I like what Burdened said above. Barring all women’s colleges, it would be pretty dull to only have white and Asian women on campus:-)
Here we go again, people assuming all you need to do is have top stats and hit the submit button. Kids, there’s a full application to fill out, 3.5 years of good judgment to show, commitments to the right things, at the right levels. Plus an ability to write well (and that’s more than some hs assignments.) You don’t get into a top school just for being top of the heap at your one high school.
Anyone who wants to rant about how unfair AA is, is supposed to go to the Race in College Admissions thread. That’s where you vent.
Anyone yet to apply should be tying to learn what their college targets really want to see. Put your energy there. Unlike CC, adcoms don’t deal in summaries (sal, scores, what someone’s hs friends think of their ECs.)
Imagine this:
"One of my friends (we are students at a non-US school), who is valedictorian of my school, got rejected from Columbia early action.
I do not find that super surprising; however, I know of many American friends, who play sports, have less than 2300 SATs, etc, got into Columbia. My non-America friend has a lot more awards, extracurricular, almost perfect SAT scores, and works harder (sleeps less than 5 hours a day). Do you think top American school admissions is unfair?"
Why doesn’t anyone carry the banner for international applicants when the rally cry about “where are the meritocratic admissions policies”? The fact is every decision is a zero sum game. You want a women’s crew team? You need to set aside some slots. You want a superior biology dept? Then you better aim for some STEM superstars. You don’t want 30% non-US students b/c your main duty is to domestic applicants?
No one said it’s supposed to be drop everyone on a spreadsheet and offer admits to everyone above a certain cutoff. If you think differently, then I invite you to apply to the 85% of US schools that do practice meritocratic admissions. I guarantee you that your salutatorian friend would be admitted at EVERY SINGLE one of those 85% of schools. But you can’t call down some of the various features that make schools like Columbia so desired – their ability to bring in diverse people on factors beyond sole academic merit. Blasphemy? Go to one of the other 85%.
There is a pinned thread at the top of this forum for race in college admissions. Please continue the discussion there.