Aside from UC Berkeley, where else have you been accepted?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
141

<p>
[quote]
Sakky, your brother's case is such a rarity, I didn't even consider it; i'm talking about "typical" students. Full ride to CalTech/Stanford PhD...very impressive, but not anymore impressive than the full ride Berkeley/CalTech PhD guy I know.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And who is getting a 'full ride' to Berkeley? Note, I'm not talking about outside scholarships, and I'm not talking about scholarships/prizes you may get after you ahve * already * become a Berkeley student. Those are not true full Berkeley rides, because outside scholarships can be used at any school, and you can never count upon getting a scholarship/prize after you arrive at Berkeley (i.e. it may happen, but it might not). Hence, the only true full rides I am aware of to Berkeley are those you get from financial aid because you are really poor, and athletic scholarships. Other than that, Berkeley gives few, if any, true merit scholarships, where the award money is not contingent upon your income. For example, the Regent/Chancellor Scholarship program gives money according to your need (hence, I know many people who got only around $500). So exactly which merit scholarship are you talking about? </p>

<p><a href="http://www.berkeley.edu/applying/aid/#scholarships%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.berkeley.edu/applying/aid/#scholarships&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And besides, your notion of 'typical' students just gives it away. I don't want to be overly harsh, but the 'typical' student is just another way of saying a student who wasn't good enough to get a full ride at a top private school. But that gets to what I was saying before - that Berkeley has difficulty in attracting the top top students, because they tend (for various reasons) to want to go elsewhere.</p>

142

<p>
[quote]
That's a reflection of Stanford's student body vs. Berkeley's student body....private school vs. public school.....says nothing about the quality of education available.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm not sure that it's that simple. Again, just think of it from the standpoint of an individual student deciding on whether to go to Stanford or Berkeley. Why go to a school (Berkeley) that has impacted majors, when you have the choice of going to a school that doesn't? Why go to a school that has worse advising, when you have a choice of going to a school that has better advising? Why go to a school that has fewer internship/research opportunities per capita when you have the choice of a school that has more? Why wouldn't you choose to go to the school with the better brand name? Why wouldn't you choose to go to the school with better recruiting and networking opportunities? </p>

<p>One might say that Berkeley is cheaper. But like I said before, that all depends on the person. For those who are not from California (which represent 89% of the American population), the cost is going to be basically the same. If you are poor, then Stanford might actually be * cheaper * because Stanford tends to be more aggressive with financial aid. For example, Stanford is committed to asking for no parental contribution if your family makes less than 45k a year. Berkeley still won't make that kind of commitment. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.stanford.edu/dept/finaid/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.stanford.edu/dept/finaid/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>So the point is, again, it's unclear as to which school is really cheaper. It all depends on your personal circumstances. I would say that for the majority of students at Stanford, Berkeley would not have been cheaper simply because the majority of students at Stanford came from out-of-state. And if you're rich, you probably don't care about any cost difference anyway. Hence, Berkeley, like I've said, is generally a good deal only for the * California middle class *. But that's only a small fraction of the entire population of the country.</p>

143

<p>
[quote]
Caltech sucks. Big time. Stanford PhD stipends are overrated. Do the math here people!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Caltech seemed to work out quite well for my brother. At least he's doing a lot better than those 13% of Berkeley students who won't even graduate. </p>

<p>About Stanford PhD stipends being overrated, again, he seems to be quite happy with his stipend. Stanford graduate housing is ** surprisingly cheap *. More importantly, it's easy to get. His housing is quite close to his office. Contrast that with Berkeley that has very little dedicated graduate housing, and the biggest chunk of it is actually located in Albany, which is several miles away (hence, you basically have to take the bus to get to campus every day). That's pretty inconvenient, compared to having your office within walking distance.</p>

144

<p>
[quote]
Finally, the examples given so often by you and posters such as Vicissitudes reflect a disappointment that reflects a standard or ideal that Cal may never be able to or even want to reach.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Hmm, let's see what I wrote in my post. Higher graduation rate, better grad school placement, smaller classes, better advising...yeah, standards no one could possibly want. I think we should aim for lower graduation rate, larger classes, and maybe get rid of advising altogether. That'll put Berkeley at the top.</p>

<p>Let me put it to you this way: a few years ago a new policy called the major cap was enacted such that the semester in which a student exceeds 130 units is the semester that student MUST graduate from the university. This policy, albeit a little harsh, is to help significantly raise the 4-year graduation rate. So it looks like UC Berkeley wants to achieve at least one of the standards I mentioned.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Vicissitudes has a strong notion of excellence and defines it in this case at Stanford's superior performance in the areas he names. Abcd.... is pointing out that of course the school's are different -- they have a different mission of private vs. public with all that implies regarding resources and so on. But a couple of things: abcd... has seen both sides of the fence as it were and is pointing out that the school V is holding out as an ideal is overrated in certain ways which he names.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>First of all, nowhere in this thread did I hold Stanford or any school to be "ideal." I simply pointed out a school that does some things better than Berkeley does, so what? There are some things Berkeley does better than Stanford (the football team comes to mind). Yes the schools are different, but you can't excuse Berkeley's inferior performance in certain fields by claiming that it's "different" from its peers. So if Berkeley doesn't get its students into med schools, we just say that since "its mission is different from HYPS", it's okay? Just because Berkeley is trying to provide education to more students doesn't mean that it can't also provide quality education. Heck, it's already providing pretty good education; I think it can do even better. I'm not asking Berkeley to have the best undergrad program in the country. I realize the restrictions (especially financially) that the university is facing. But I think it can be run better than it is now.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Don't be naive. Berkeley is not going to be Stanford is 20 years no matter how much you carp.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Err, a few decades ago Berkeley was the premiere university in California. Stanford has only risen to the top in the past few decades or so. Look at UCLA; 10 years ago no one regarded it to be as good as Berkeley and now most people are saying the undergrad programs are roughly equal. Olin isn't even 10 years old and has already established itself to be a respectable engineering school, luring students away from the likes of Harvard and MIT. Maybe it's not possible for Berkeley to see such drastic changes, but at least it's a goal worth aiming for.</p>