<p>So my mother has basically told me I can’t go to UPenn because she doesn’t want to play. What are some of the pros about the school from actual students that could help me convince her that it will be worth it in 4 years versus me attending a state school … I’m desperate because UPenn is my dream</p>
I think college is really only effective if it challenges you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. If you go to a state school, you may coast by, easily getting the grades you want, etc. Short-term, it seems like a great plan, but long-term, I think it sets you up for failure. If you go to Penn, you will have to work much harder since the average student’s capabilities are much higher. By being challenged constantly (academically, extra-curricularly, intellectually), you will be mentally tougher, better educated, and better prepared for any future challenges.
The quality of education is higher, and there is a reason Penn doesn’t accept many AP scores. For example, the introductory general chemistry class here covers not only AP material, but <em>even more.</em> One reason Penn is ranked so high is because of its high quality and quantity of research. Professors here are top-notch in their fields, and there is generally a decent correlation between professors who are good at their research and professors who are good/love/passionate about teaching.
Penn has SO many more opportunities than your average state school. In terms of internships, professors, programs, networking, research and clubs, there is a reason that Penn is Penn.
Penn is much smaller than many state schools. We have a very condensed urban campus, so you end up seeing a lot of people you know on Locust Walk every day or anywhere else. I think it makes adapting to college easier when you don’t feel as lost in a huge crowd of people.</p>
<p>OP: “What is the course workload like in the sciences? How challenging is it to get a 3.6 GPA or higher when majoring in a science such as biology?”</p>
<p>3.6+ is a pretty good GPA if you’re majoring in a science since many classes are curved pretty harshly. Considering that many of the lower-level classes are curved to a C+/B- (= GPA 2.7/3.0) and that usually only the top 20-25% of the class will get an A/A- (= GPA 4.0/3.7), you will need to put in a <em>considerable</em> amount of work to maintain a 3.6+ GPA in a science. The average person who takes science classes is probably smarter/more hard-working than the average Penn student, so be prepared! To answer your question about course workload, it’s pretty high since you have to study a lot outside of class. Tests are not like high school where regurgitation is the norm, but they test your understanding of the concepts. (Ex: instead of asking how an operon works, the question gives you a hypothetical scenario where the operon has been altered and asks what happens.) I’d say expect to put in 10-15 hours/science class outside of class if you want a solid grade.</p>
<p>To add to what quakerlove said, I would like to emphasize that quality is much more important than quantity when it comes to studying for science classes. You need to develop efficient study habits, and to do this you must be flexible. If something doesn’t work, try something else. Staying up all night studying isn’t worth it if it just tires you out and does not get you results. For me, it’s better to study gradually. A good method for me is to go over my notes, keeping an eye for important concepts, then do a lot or practice problems, thinking about how these concepts are applied. </p>
<p>So I would suggest you take time before you enter college to think about your learning style and how you perform best. You may not know yet, it took me time in college to figure this out. I would advise you to try not to procrastinate as it seems like in general this habit does more harm than good, although some people tell me that is how they get their motivation.</p>
<p>1) How many classes a semester do most CAS students take? I’m considering transferring as a sophomore this fall, but given my double-major ambition and requirements I still have to fulfill I’m looking at 4-5 classes a semester until I graduate. Is this considered a heavy workload? </p>
<p>2) How is the math department at Penn? Is it one of their strong suits? The university I currently attend has a pretty solid math department; if I transfer to Penn I want to make sure I’m transferring for the right reasons. </p>
<p>Thanks in advance to any and all who can offer advice!</p>
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<li><p>4-5 is what just about everyone takes that’s not dual-degreeing. You’ll be fine.</p></li>
<li><p>While we’re obviously no Harvard or MIT, our math department is very strong regardless - with the exception of our introductory classes (the 104-114-240-241 sequence). Those classes are utter ****. There are probably some other students on here more knowledgable about Penn’s math department, so I’ll let them answer this in more depth.</p></li>
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<p>I will be attending Penn next year. I want to go pre-med and I am a Vagelos MLS Scholar. Would you suggest taking Chem 101 or Chem 115 in preparation for the MCATs as pre-med? I got a 5 on AP Chem. Is there really much of a difficulty difference between 101 and 115?</p>
<p>Definitely not. I mean there will always be those super-geniuses who can achieve a lot with little work, but from my experience this year, I’d say academic success at Penn is strongly correlated to the amount of work you put in. Those who slack (no matter how inherently intelligent) will suffer grade wise, but those who put in work do <em>tend</em> to achieve good grades. You may have to work harder than someone of a higher IQ to achieve the same academic results, but it’s not impossible! Also, remember that doing well in academics isn’t the only point of college. Challenging yourself in other ways – socially, extra-curricularly, etc. is also just as important!</p>
<p>To add, quakerlove, while it is not impossible to succeed at Penn as someone with “above average IQ,” don’t think that you will be the best. In a class of 2,400, you will meet people with levels of intelligence you never even thought possible. I would classify myself as pretty intelligent, and I work extremely hard at everything I do, yet I would say I was slightly below average in my class.</p>
<p>Most people find that they don’t care how they perform relative to their peers; they set their own standards and try to meet them. For me, my initial goal was a 3.5 GPA; after freshman year and a 2.98, I readjusted my goal to a 3.3. After realizing my passions, I again readjusted my goals to a 3.5 major GPA and a 3.2 cumulative GPA; these goals remained the same until graduation, and I wound up with a 3.48 major / 3.12 cumulative. </p>
<p>As I have found in the real world, goals need to be realistic - easy enough that they are attainable but difficult enough that it requires exceptional effort to attain them. Goal-setting like that sets you up for success.</p>
<p>What would you guys recommend in my particular case?
I want to get a dual degree from Wharton and SEAS, but I would also like to graduate in 4 years. Would it be bad for me to take intro courses in economics and math if I have experience in them from AP courses? </p>
<p>Yes, it would. When you want to dual-degree in Wharton and SEAS - especially if it’s not M&T, but rather an uncoordinated dual degree - every credit matters. Take all of your AP credits, especially in econ and math.</p>
<p>I took both AP Econs sophomore year of high school and didn’t even think about economics until taking BPUB 250 (calculus-based microecon - Wharton core requirement) freshman spring. I did extremely well regardless. They don’t assume any real prior knowledge.</p>
<p>As for MATH, they reteach the important MATH 114 stuff in MATH 240, and what you learn in MATH 104 (calc BC equivalent) is essentially useless. Take your AP credit and run with it. There’s a girl in my M&T class who retook MATH 104 despite having calc BC credit, and she regretted it.</p>
<p>Thanks. What would u recommend for someone whose school only offered macroeconomics? Should I still take intro to micro or skip to the calculus based microeconomics? </p>
<p>The calculus based microeconomics doesn’t really assume that much prior knowledge of microeconomics. You’ll basically be doing all of the things you did in intro to microecon by drawing graphs and stuff, but you’ll be doing them rigorously using mathematics and optimization in particular. It makes a lot more sense this way and it’s okay if you haven’t seen it beforehand.</p>
<p>However the course is very computationally intensive and you should be very comfortable with basic calculus. You don’t need to know anything particular after AP BC Calculus; they do use Lagrangian multipliers a lot since it’s pretty much the only accessible optimization technique, but those are taught on the second or third day of class.</p>
<p>Hey everyone, I was looking at the credit for IB/AP, and I was wondering what Geography Free (2 c.u) means, what classes can you skip with this?
Thanks!</p>
<p>How hard is it to do well in Wharton? I know the classes are curved, but I’ve read in different places, both on CC and elsewhere, that a portion of the class isn’t competitive and average GPA statistics are misleading. What would you estimate the median gpa is for a student who is willing to work hard? Also how much time working per week is considered working hard at Wharton?</p>
<p>Thanks so much for the thread, it’s a great asset for high school kids.</p>
<p>I assume you self-studied for the AP Micro exam and got a 5? If so, then skip to BEPP 250 (or ECON 101, although I’ve heard that the class is taught horribly). Otherwise, you’ll need to take ECON 001 or ECON 010 in order to graduate from Wharton. As previously mentioned, they’ll reteach everything in the class.</p>
<p>In regards to the rigor of BEPP 250, I disagree strongly with feuxfollets. If you know how to take derivatives, you know all the math needed in BEPP 250. They’ll teach Lagrangians in class, and you’ll have to do one homework problem with them, but the professors will never put Lagrangians on the exams.</p>
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<p>I’m not positive, but it most likely means you’ll get two free elective credits that count as general geography classes. You won’t be able to fill any major requirements with them. Ask an advisor to double-check on that, since I’m not at all confident about my answer.</p>
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<p>That’s a tough question to answer. I’m actually not aware of what the average Wharton GPA is. I’ve found that it’s pretty easy to do well if you’re willing to put the work in. The Wharton class is so diverse in terms of learning speeds, styles, and skills that I can’t really give an average amount of hours worked per week on Wharton classes.</p>
<p>You’ll find out quickly how much you’ll feel comfortable working in order to do well. I will say (and I’m sure you’ve heard this before) that Penn has a huge work hard, play hard attitude. Kids go out and have fun. We’re not studying 24/7.</p>
<p>In terms of grading curves, they normally turn out favorably. My MGMT 101 class ended up being curved to 35% As, 55% Bs, and 10% Cs. I can’t speak for the specific curves on my other Wharton classes (MGMT 100, STAT 430, and BPUB 250), but they’ve also treated me favorably. Specifically, I felt that I got a higher grade than I deserved in both MGMT 100 and MGMT 101.</p>
<p>@Keasbey Knights: I was referring to ECON 101, the calculus-based microeconomics, not BPUB 250. We most certainly had to do Lagrangian multipliers on our exams.</p>
<p>And what do they teach in BPUB 250 then? I mean pretty much every profit maximization with whatever other factors you throw in turns into a constrained optimization problem. </p>
<p>@detoidi: I don’t know of anything done for prefrosh. As for internships, there are lots of career fairs held on campus, along with speakers from various companies who come to give talks and interviews. Also some of the clubs have connections with companies and you can get interviews through those (I know someone who got this through Penn Electric Racing).</p>
Also, remember that doing well in academics isn’t the only point of college. Challenging yourself in other ways – socially, extra-curricularly, etc. is also just as important!</p>