Audition/class size numbers

College Majors Musical Theater Major
81

<p>NYU works differently than the others on this list. At NYU, 50% of admissions is based on academic review and 50% on artistic review. </p>

<p>There are some programs on this list where the acceptance to the university itself is separate from the BFA acceptance. At NYU, it is all or nothing...ONE process and where both are weighed equally. It is also holistic and not simply a GPA and SAT cut off, etc. </p>

<p>Again, one should only apply to a college, be it NYU or any college, by assessing if their academic skill set is within the ballpark......reaches, matches and safeties are fine and recommended. Far reaches (not remotely in the ballpark) is a waste of an application. The schools put out the information you need to assess if you are in the ballpark. Still, unrealistic students and parents still apply when not remotely in the ballpark. I can't tell you the unrealistic outlook I have seen in my work with SOME people.</p>

82

<p>I agree that purusing these #s is only one part of the process in putting together a viable list. A caveat emptor should come with this list because the #s are definitely skewed in ways one cannot access at some of the schools.. For instance, at our UM info session cycle 2007 we were told that due to state legislature laws the MT program had to take 3 Michigan residents.. Some other public universities might have this stipulation since they are state funded ( I asked at PSU and they do not). Also, just like a girl was pre-admitted to CMU from the summer program and apparently some(5?) had a heads up from Steinhardt's summer program, UM always takes some (6 this yr, 3 last, 4 the yr before) kids from MPulse thus lowereing the #S. This is probably true of other programs, such as OCU and so on. So in addition to the #s and a realistic academic assessment based on info the schools provide, I highly recommend getting an OBJECTIVE appraisal of the talent by an audition coach different from the ones the applicant trains with. I say this because the student's own coaches could be kennel blind ( old show dog term), especially if the student is one of the best in the area, always gets the leads, and so on. Also, the home coach just may not be that familiar with this entire MT process or the individual schools like the audition coaches are- just look at their track records. It is well worth the $ upfront to get a realistic assessment of talent ( not to mention you will most likely get much needed help onlmaterial=priceless!) when one figures the thousands that can be spent on apps, travel, audition fees, food, hotels, planes, rental cars, trains - you get the picture. If you cannot find a good outside source in your own area-try working professional actors, college professors- then investing in one trip to a good audition coach can make the difference in your acceptance success as he/she will be able to help you flush out an appropriate list that should result in at least one school to attend- all one needs in the end. JMHO.</p>

83

<p>I completely agree in getting an assessment of one's artistic talent from someone who is familiar with the talent pool for a BFA program and this may not be your local teacher who works with you. </p>

<p>I also agree that there are factors like the one you mentioned above. In my D's class at CAP21, she told me a third had done their summer program and none of the programs my D applied to, including NYU, knew her from Adam in any capacity. I didn't know this until after she started school but it is food for thought.</p>

84

<p>This may show my total ignorance but how does one assess "one's artistic talent from someone who is familiar with the talent pool "? In a small town a big fish may not have the chops it really takes, and in a big town, the opposite may be true. But because of their peers or the numbers, they may not know. We have tried to not personally be involved with determining that level, cause we are doting parents. When everyone is telling you "She really has a future/potential, blah, blah blah, how do you really know if you are in the ballpark.</p>

<p>Sorry if this is disjointed... my second grade class is eating snack right now and I am kinda distracted!!!! :)</p>

<p>Snogg</p>

85

<p>
[quote]
For instance, at our UM info session cycle 2007 we were told that due to state legislature laws the MT program had to take 3 Michigan residents..

[/quote]
Again, wow! I wonder if other Michigan programs have this stipulation, or just MT because of its reputation? I will also ask about any other state programs. Something I never would have thought of. Good info to have....</p>

86

<p>SS, if you are able to find the post where the 1/3 info was discussed, I'd appreciate seeing it. It may be my failing memory but I don't recall that Tisch has ever released that kind of info. In any case, as has been said, even an increase in acceptances between 3-5%, or 10-15%, the bottom line is that it's a selective process! The actual numbers are not all that meaningful, in my opinion.</p>

<p>For Tisch to do an academic pre-screening of candidates, they would have to change their entire admissions process for these kids. The elimination of E.D. and regional auditions would probably be the first change. I'm curious how you think this could be accomplished. </p>

<p>Some would say that allowing all audition is a more fair and open process than limiting applicants by a 'quick review'. The responsibility should be on the students and their families to make the decision as to whether or not they want to apply to a particular school. The audition fee would still be there even for just a preliminary review, wouldn't it? And most schools do not charge an audition fee so I don't think that's an issue.</p>

<p>Ultimately, students (and parents) need to go into this process, most importantly, well-informed, and, almost as importantly, with realistic expectations.</p>

87

<p>Just a few notes-the Steinhardt numbers are skewed (as are the Tisch numbers-they include both acting and MT) because they dont include just MT but also VP majors-unfortunately, those are the best numbers we have-50 acceptances offered out of 275 auditionees for an acceptance rate of 18%. I am surprised about the required admission of 3 Michigan residents but it is just another example of how complex this process is and that you can never know it all! I am surprised that NYU does not think that it would be beneficial to place some academic standards on their BFA applicants. My S made the decision to audition even though he knew that the odds were stacked against him. Strangely though he made the cut at Michigan, Indiana and Penn State-all good schools. Everyone has made the point, and will continue to make it as we all seem to be afraid to mislead those new to the conversation, that you can not make decisions or assumptions about your acceptability(? word but you get my drift) on numbers alone. There are many factors-academics, talent, type-that are fed into the admission equation.</p>

88

<p>I figured I'd simply contact this nice gentleman at Tisch to get some "2008 facts & figures" :D. </p>

<p>Well, I didn't :D. I did get a very nice email back congratulating my D once again with her acceptance into CAP21, that it was a very competitive year, that her incoming class will have approximately 64 freshmen, and that they had more than 2000 qualified applicants. Of course, I have no idea what this number is for. </p>

<p>In my email to him, I asked for specific numbers for Tisch Drama, # of auditioners, # of acceptance offers and intended # of students by class/studio. I tried, just thought I'd let you all know :).</p>

89

<p>Tisch doesn't have vocal performance, I don't think. Only Steinhardt does.</p>

<p>Also, does NYU tell applicants (for drama) who are not accepted why they have not been accepted? In other words, if a student passes the artistic/audition standard but doesn't pass the academic standard, is the student notified of that? I recall posters here in years past saying "I got in through the audition, but my SAT scores weren't good enough, so I wasn't accepted to NYU" etc. How did they know that?</p>

90

<p>A few things to add-when my D auditioned for Tisch we were told that the average GPA for Tisch acting majors was 3.2, and 1200 SATS[old scoring]. So they were more than transparent-they actually gave the stats for acting majors only, very helpful and I've advised many kids whose parents assumed they couldn't apply there due to grades. Guess I've had the opposite of Soozievets experience in that regard, parents who think their kids have to have a 3.8 to audition at NYU.
And she also has another great point about assessing a kid's talent. It's tough, as they arent "done" yet at age 17, but if not living anywhere near the professional show biz centers I'd probably advise a summer program that's very professionally minded, or a trip to a top school to see a production. I'm thinkinig of one of our local grads who auditioned at 11 schools and got in nowhere. This was not a surprise to those of us in the business but her parents and other non pro adults thought she was a top talent.</p>

91

<p>It would not be strange to have the academic qualifications to be admitted academically to Michigan, Penn State or Indiana but not NYU. NYU is a far more selective university than the other three. This is true of the stats of admitted students but also the admit rate. The admit rate for the entire university (NOT TISCH itself) was 24% this year. Of the schools you mentioned, UMich would be next, then Penn State and Indiana last in terms of academic selectivity for admission. These four schools are not in the same ballpark in terms of academic selectivity.</p>

<p>NYU does not need to place "some academic standards on their BFA applicants" more than any other university. It is the responsibility of applicants to research the admit rates to the university (the academic side) and the stats of admitted students and to apply to schools that are in their ballpark....reaches, matches and safeties. Reaches are fine (as long as there are academic matches and safeties on the list to balance it). FAR reaches when not remotely in the ballpark of any of the stats of admitted students, do not make sense (I'm referring generally now, and not to any applicants here). Applicants need to self screen. It is not OK to just create a list of school that offer one's interest but to assess the academic qualifications necessary to be admitted. I could assess an applicant and tell them if they are in the ballpark and if the school is a reach, match, or safet yand also if they are a FAR FAR reach and would NOT be accepted at all. A reach is fine, but a FAR reach is a waste, in my view. There's a difference between a reach school and a FAR reach that is entirely unrealistic with NO chance. People can do this themselves.</p>

92

<p>NMR...I have read people post that as well but Tisch does NOT tell the applicants that information and I believe some who are not admitted may draw a conclusion that it was due to academics (could be...but it is not information the school gives out).</p>

93

<p>I am sure the whole process and its level of competition is a big shock to many kids and parents, unfortunately. Kids who are stars in their high schools all over America must be stunned to come to, say, Unifieds and stand outside the rooms and hear all the amazingly talented kids belting their hearts out. I am sure it must be unnerving to say the least.</p>

94

<p>You don't need a 3.8 to get into NYU, that's for sure. I have seen applicants who did not take a challenging course load whatsoever, who ranked at the bottom 50% of their class, who had a 1000 on the CR/M SAT and had a 2.8 GPA and wanted Tisch. One's stats need to be in the ballpark of the range that NYU PUBLISHES like all colleges publish.</p>

95

<p>MTgrlsmom, funny you should post here. It was your comments on an old thread that had stuck in my head.</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/nyu-tisch-mt/457977-number-freshmen-entering-tisch-acting-mt-each-year.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/nyu-tisch-mt/457977-number-freshmen-entering-tisch-acting-mt-each-year.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>THe thread discussed Arthur Bartow's comments on a 15 - 17% Tisch acceptance rate and how that squared with an info session statement about Tisch accepting 1/3 of academically & artistically qualifed kids.</p>

<p>
[quote]
MT, the comment makes sense to me. It appears, then, that less than half of the kids who apply are qualified in terms of both academics & talent. If 45% pass both academic & talent standards, only 1/3 of them are given an offer. That would be an overall acceptance rate of 15%.

[/quote]
Always, the 1/3 figure refers to the number of kids selected from the pool of those both academically and artistically qualified. Sorry for my fuzzy memory. That still doesn't tell us how many would have been academically cut before auditions were granted if NYU operated in the same way as Michigan. (Michigan works their system into a rolling admissions process, so I don't think it would be unworkable at an NYU.) I think the rep was trying to let applicants know that while they may be wonderful, two out of three bright, talented kids will still fail to gain acceptance.</p>

96

<p>A lot of "theatre kids" in our area have not been accepted to schools that they thought they would be going to upon graduation from HS. I think being realistic about one's chances, and even somewhat "pessimistic" is the best advice I have found on CC. A lot of these kids are devastated and have to shift into a different gear. We are now helping some families that are going into this process next year (a local magazine published an article about my daughter's BFA audition experience), and I am so happy that we are able to direct them to CC.</p>

<p>SS - I kind of knew that when I saw your post :D. Out of all the info sessions that one sticks in my head like no other, even though I chose to read through my D's notes to make sure I remembered correctly before sticking out my neck and posting here, because I did not want to get "trampled on" :). Thankfully other people were at that session and concurred. Kuhlke's comment still makes sense to me even now, although it really does not translate into any kind of hard percentage. Again, who is to know how many people actually pass NYU's acadamic & artistic bar? Who is the qualified applicant anyway? </p>

<p>I don't think that there is any need to argue about what was said at the different session, or even question people's recollection (something that tends to happens here for some reason :)). In my humble opinion, each person is still responsible for their own research and verification of facts, although in NYU's case, like my recent email exchange proved, this may turn out to be a bit more challenging than it seems at first sight...</p>

<p>Actual admission figures and percentages in the end did not really matter to my D however, she was simply determined to beat the odds.</p>

97

<p>
[quote]
I have seen applicants who did not take a challenging course load whatsoever, who ranked at the bottom 50% of their class, who had a 1000 on the CR/M SAT and had a 2.8 GPA and wanted Tisch.

[/quote]
Soozie, did that applicant get in ?? I hope not, because it will further confuse me.</p>

98

<p>Much has been said about academic acceptances, and I would like to encourage all the high school students out there who will be auditioning in the next couple of years to work hard on your school work and keep your GPA up. You should also develop good study habits and work ethic, not just in your performance classes, but in algebra and science, too! Contrary to what some (my friends whose kids are not arts majors) believe, a BFA/BM degree is not a walk in the park. My D is an excellent student and she has found some of her courses (theory, music history) very demanding, if not for the content, then for the memorization and hours of study required. She also tutors other students (her work-study job) who need help with these subjects. Keep in mind, you will have hours of practicing, rehearsing and performing on top of liberal arts classes.</p>

99

<p>Snoggie was asking how would one evaluate their artistic level of competitiveness for a BFA in MT program, particularly if they live in a small town (I can relate as we live in a town of 1700)...</p>

<p>When you are applying to BFA programs which are so selective, you have to "self assess"...”Am I in the running artistically?” or “Am I reasonably in the ballpark?” How does one know this? Well, you can look at how you are doing in your own school or community...”do I get cast well or do I stand out or win any awards?” for example. (often if you can't rise up in your own high school or small community, you will have more difficulty being competitive with those who have done so when they are all competing for these BFA programs) “How would I do in a more "competitive group" of kids?” (such as in the state or region or at a summer theater program where kids come from all over and tend to be a concentrated group of talent). One can self-assess amongst a wider talent pool of kids your age who may also eventually apply to BFA programs....be it at regional or state events or at a summer program, for example. It is not like you have to get a lead in your region or win a regional, state, or national award, but if you do, you will know that at least in a certain talent pool, you are competitive. It's a bit of a benchmark that helps you to assess. The BFA talent pool is way bigger than one's school or local community and made up of lots of kids who have risen to the top in their local regions. If you audition for theater productions outside of your school, you get one idea, or if you enter a regional, state or national competition, you might get a sense of how you can compete. I think the summer programs are one way for you to assess how you fare in a concentrated and bigger talent pool than your local one, too. Some students enter state or regional thespian competitions or adjudications for All States for Chorus. There is NFAA on a national scale. These are other ways to ascertain how you fare in bigger talent pools. It is not like you have to do those things to get into college at all, but I am just saying these are ways you can get a handle in how you’d fare in such talent pools.</p>

<p>If you don't win an award or are not cast as leads on a regular basis, that's totally FINE because I know LOTS of kids who enter such competitions on a state or national level and didn't win one or maybe didn't even enter at all, and who are not always cast as a lead who are in top BFA programs. So it is not the end all and be all whatsoever. But if you DO win certain awards outside your local community or garner significant roles outside of your high school, I think you can say to yourself.....”hmmm, I was able to get in the top 5 or 10% in a national pool of kids in my field (NFAA) or win the state X or Y awards in music or theater, among a talent pool who very well may be the types who are going to be auditioning for the same selective BFA programs, so maybe this is another benchmark that helps me to see that perhaps I CAN compete and that I am an appropriate candidate to go for these long shot odds schools which will have an applicant pool of standouts from all over the country.” </p>

<p>I would encourage applicants to get feedback from voice and acting coaches as to your potential as a BFA candidate in Musical Theater, and hopefully these folks are familiar with the level of students who have been admitted in the past. This may not be your regular voice or drama teacher. The person has to have worked with students who have gone onto BFA programs and be both familiar with the talent that has been accepted and the qualifications necessary to get in. </p>

<p>You can also try to self assess your skills against anyone you know who has gotten into BFA programs. If you know kids who have been admitted to BFA programs, try to honestly self assess in comparison to their skill sets. Think, too, about how you fare in casting situations (over time) and things like that. Try to compare yourself to the talent pool outside your local area that you have come in contact with, such as at summer programs if you can attend them. If you know ANY kids who have gone onto BFA programs in recent years, try to compare yourself to their talent level and achievements, as just another self-assessment tool.</p>

<p>To help determine if you are in the ballpark ARTISTICALLY of candidates who seek BFA admissions examine how you have fared with awards or casting beyond your high school, consult with acting and voice professionals who know others who have gotten into BFA in MT programs and have worked with them to get their assessment, and self assess your own talent in comparison to those whom you may know who have been admitted. If you can attend any programs outside your region, like a summer program, that will be one way to put yourself in a bigger pond. Same with entering things like state or NFAA competitions.</p>

100

<p>SS...the profile I shared is akin to several students who have come to me wanting NYU and if they worked with me on the entire process, they took my advice and did not apply (that profile will NOT get into NYU). I have heard of kids who I only assessed initially but did not work with to finalize their list who still applied with such a profile and of course, they did not get in and their list was very unrealistic and they are left without a program. For those who took the advice to have a more realistic list of schools.....they are all going to BFA programs and added schools I recommended that fit their qualifications (I've had this happen with students who added schools like Roosevelt, Marymount Manhattan, Shenandoah who would NOT have applied had I not encouraged such schools as appropriate for them artistically and academically). The ones who chose to apply to the unrealistic schools are the ones left without a program. However, just to clarify, anyone who worked with me to finalize their list and help with their admissions process ALL have a school to attend. I'm referring to those who did not take the advice or finalized their list and took care of their process on their own who were not successful and very unrealistic in terms of their college list.</p>