Auditioned schools with slightly higher acceptance rates

<p>Seeing some of the lists our next batch of kids are starting to make, I thought I'd give veteran parents and advisers a chance to share some of the wonderful schools they've found that have slightly higher acceptance rates for auditioned BFAs and BAs.</p>

<p>In this field, "higher" means 20-30% acceptance rates, as opposed to the 10-15% or lower that are usually accepted by the very selective theatre programs (such as CMU, BU, Purchase, etc.). So often kids new to the process are drawn only to these schools and aren't even aware of the names of schools where they have a better chance of getting in, and where many, many students are extremely happy and successful.</p>

<p>I have no intention of insulting any schools by insinuating that they aren't as "good" as schools that have lower acceptance rates. The flat truth is that auditioning kids should have some schools on their list that do accept more students, for whatever reason (not going to Unifieds, being less trendy, having some element that the general crowd isn't drawn to like geography, etc.). Please let's not get into nickels and dimes about whether or not a school "deserves" to be in the "top" group; let's just make a helpful list for kids coming up. </p>

<p>I don't know how to format this list. I think it would be nice if we put a tiny bit of distinguishing information and an idea about the size/location/etc., but it will get very unwieldy if there are long entries for each school. Maybe 2-3 lines each? </p>

<p>I'll start with the two schools my D actually auditioned for. I guess my entries will reflect what she was looking for, so write yours however you want. Please copy the previous schools to make a comprehensive list, and try to keep it in alphabetical order.</p>

<p>Adelphi University (western Long Island): auditioned BFA, Acting/Design only (no MT degree, but with voice and dance classes), theatre minor, academic honors college</p>

<p>SUNY New Paltz (1.5 hours north of NYC): auditioned BA, Acting/Design only (no MT degree, but with voice and dance classes), great NYC connections, good liberal arts</p>

<p>nalajen asked me on another thread how I “know” acceptance rates. I’ll admit that I don’t. They change a lot, depending on the year, the school, the weather, etc. None of this is supposed to be exact; it’s just a way to make a balanced list, because so many kids pick pretty much all incredible longshots and so many lovely “lesser-known” schools are excellent, and actually could give them some options.</p>

<p>To say that “if you’re going to do this, you should shoot high and not compromise yourself” is a disservice to the kids - since that’s like telling someone “only apply to Ivies; nowhere else is worth it” - and to the schools themselves, which so often get overlooked because they aren’t “the most highly regarded” (whatever that means).</p>

<p>I don’t have stats, am just going on what the schools tell people. Some are what I’ve been told, and some are what others hear. So this is why I just use a general spectrum of “higher” to "less high. </p>

<p>For example, from my D’s list, BU told us that they audition about 800 and would offer spots to about 80 for a yield of 45-50. So I’m calling that about a 10% acceptance rate. CMU probably auditions more, and accepts fewer. Minn asks 60 to its callback weekend, then accepts 20, and I’m guessing they audition at least as many as BU. Monclair State takes 16 into Acting (according to a list on a thread that’s gotten buried - which posts the size of the class but not how many audition); they probably accept more than that, but I can safely assume that several hundred audition. </p>

<p>Some schools manage their yield differently - they call or write to their first-choice kids until their get their number, and if the kids turn them down, they start calling their next preferred kids until the class is full. So it’s impossible to guess how many they actually offer admission to - a bit more than the class size, but who knows? If a school like BU offers admission to almost twice the yield they want, we can think that at any school (either because of a student’s preference, finances, etc.) they probably offer admission to at least 50% more than actually enroll.</p>

<p>On the other hand, Adelphi told us a year ago that they audition about 400 and accept about 100 for a class of 30. I think New Paltz is about the same. You still need to work hard to make these cuts - as I said, these are acceptance rates that compare to very highly selective college admissions. But they’re way better than 10%, and I do believe kids who are auditioning should have a couple of these schools on their list if they don’t want to be shut out of getting in anywhere. We all say “a balanced list,” but we don’t always help them understand what that means, or find the schools that will help balance it.</p>

<p>I’m not that familiar with schools like Marymount Manhattan, Pace, Hartt, UArts, and others that aren’t in or near larger cities. Would anyone say that they do offer a SLIGHTLY higher chance of acceptance? Higher than 10%? We have kids going to schools in Texas, the Carolinas (and I don’t mean just UNCSA, which I suppose is in the “higher selectivity” group?), and other states - could anyone make some recommendations? A new thread yesterday mentioned IL State, an auditioned BA with an excellent program, for example.</p>

<p>I’m also curious if we’ve seen changes this year, or over time in general, as nalajen pointed out in her question on the other thread - have some schools been recently inundated with auditioners, so that their acceptances rates have gone down? What role do the Unifieds play in all of this - is it typically schools that don’t travel where you can get more like a 25% acceptance rate instead of 10%, just because they don’t have the hordes of kids auditioning? </p>

<p>I’ll say one more time, at the risk of sounding obnoxious, that I am not trying to help kids “play a numbers game” here. They have to work just as hard on their auditions, and they can’t count on anything. This is basically a very tight spectrum between chances at Harvard, Yale, Stanford … and Tufts, Vassar, Haverford. It’s just a good idea to have a few schools where you have a statistically slightly better chance, and lots of our group this year did. I also want to make the point that the “slightly less selective” schools offer still an enormous level of quality and that to get into them is an enormous accomplishment. There are no safeties, nor likelies, nor matches, in auditioned school admissions.</p>

<p>If people actually know admissions stats, that’s great. I think even anecdotal information is helpful, though. Even if it starts an argument, it keeps the subject under discussion for people to learn from.</p>

<p>When I suggest audition based college programs to my advisees, I put them on a very very rough spectrum from most to least selective in general “groups” but it is not scientific, but moreover, it is not really by acceptance rate itself. There are BFA programs by audition that have low acceptance rates but better odds than other schools with low acceptance rates. This is because the school may draw more from just a regional basis and not as much nationally and the talent pool overall is not as competitive. I can think of lots of highly talented kids I know who went onto some of the most well known programs or never applied to X, Y, or Z colleges and so those talent pools at X, Y, and Z didn’t have many of those kids who are at the top of the heap nationally in their applicant pool. </p>

<p>For example, the applicant pools at CMU and at University of Idaho are very different and while there may be SOME overlap of students who applied to both, there are lots who apply to University of Idaho who never applied to CMU and lots who apply to CMU who never apply to U of Idaho. U of Idaho likely draws more from the Northwest region and CMU draws heavily from a national talent pool. And sometimes it is not only a difference of whether the school draws a national or a regional pool of talent but for example, I think it is easier to get into Roosevelt than into NYU/Tisch. I have seen many who got into Roosevelt who did not get into the most competitive programs, even though Roosevelt may have a low acceptance rate. Sometimes the most well known or sought after programs are harder to get into than other programs that also have low acceptance rates but are simply less competitive in terms of their talent pool. Or sometimes, even if the top talented kids apply to a school like Roosevelt, but are admitted to the likes of CMU or NCSA, they end up selecting the so called top program over their acceptance to Roosevelt, leaving slots open at Roosevelt for kids who would take that slot as they are not holding acceptances to the most competitive programs. These are just examples. So, it is not ONLY about acceptance rates when it comes to audition based schools and their level of selectivity/competitiveness.</p>

<p>Thanks, soozie! Probably this thread should have been “Advice on creating a balanced list,” since everything you are saying is very important, and was in the back of my mind, too. There are lots of things to factor in - geography, academic standing, financial aid, gender (probably), etc. I guess I was having a gut reaction, hoping next year’s class can have nice results, however they can manage it. And “balanced list” always seems to be the advice given, however that’s defined.</p>

<p>I do think we could steer some kids towards the “other” end of the spectrum by suggesting schools that fit that profile, either in general, or for specific reasons.</p>

<p>But if this becomes a discussion rather than a list, let’s go for it!</p>

<p>It seems to me that the list would be the schools that are known regionally. It seems like most people know about the schools that draw from a national pool. Also helpful would be the weight academics play into the equation.</p>

<p>Yes, absolutely. So we have this idea of 1) slightly higher audition acceptance rates in general; 2) regional distinctions; and 3) interplay between academics and auditions.</p>

<p>We’re not going to solve the great mystery of the process, of course. I just hope we can get kids from jumping so fast into the “have to go to the top 10,” then maybe looking at Unifieds schools, and thinking that’s all there is. </p>

<p>If we can get people to chime in somehow on some more varied alternatives, I think it will help everyone. Years ago on the archived thread there was a list (page 8?) that I think put them by state and maybe starred the most selective or something like that.</p>

<p>Maybe we can update it (probably 5 years old now, or more). Make a list with notations for region, audition selectivity, academic selectivity, etc.? Perhaps it would be good to start with that old list and make corrections … I’m by no means an expert on this at all, was thinking a group effort could have really great results and be very helpful.</p>

<p>Maybe we could start a new thread called “Building a Balanced List” and work from there. Any other input or ideas?</p>

<p>This whole process confounded me. We were very naive, and in the end, thankful that she had choices despite not know her odds. She auditioned for 1 very long shot that she never had any hope of getting into (but really wanted to audition for…), one long shot (which we really did not realize how much of a long shot it was) and 3 others that were less of a long shot and that she did get into. I think this list should include audition and non-audition programs and a little description of what both mean. There are lots of parents who are as clueless as I was…maybe we will even learn of new programs that are never mentioned on cc.</p>

<p>Are these the final entries for this topic or are they listed somewhere else? This is the exact info I am looking for to help my S build his application/audition list</p>

<p>Yes, please keep going! Building the balanced list is so important. Johnsuz - do you want to give us a few of your S’s specific needs/interests/qualifications?</p>

<p>I’m in the same boat, I suppose. Rising senior, my list is made up mainly of ultra-selective schools and non-audition safeties (or those wherein you audition for the BFA at the end of freshman year). </p>

<p>Speaking regionally, what are some good “less selective” schools for Acting oh, say, west of the Rockies?</p>

<p>To StrangeBro - I know that the Santa Fe College of Art & Design (I’m not sure I got name right - it used to be College of Santa Fe) participates in the Unifieds, as does Cornish in Seattle.</p>

<p>I love this board–I am on it almost daily and have learned SO much. Thanks to those of you who have educated and welcomed those of us just entering the process–I really appreciate and value your advice. </p>

<p>My S has just finished the Guthrie Summer Elements program and, of course, loved it! He arrives home tonight (we live in FL) with the task of finalizing his application/audition list. His stats are: SAT R:700 M:580 W:580. First ACT (last Fall): 26 (the math kills him!) GPA: 3.8 unweighted. He will have taken 6 APs by the time he graduates. He has done a few community theater productions and every school production since 5th grade–he attends a small christian school–approx. 80 kids per grade.</p>

<p>He really loved the collaborative process at the Guthrie–and their ‘out-of-the-box’ training–very innovative and different than anything he has done in high school. He will apply to both their BFA and BA programs–the difference, according to the school: “the BFA makes actors; the BA makes theater”.</p>

<p>If any of you know of other, even lesser-known, programs that have innovative, collaborative cultures, I’d love to hear of them. S is a pretty laid back guy–with theater (and guitar) being the only things he works really hard at. We have visited Elon, Coastal Carolina and College of Charleston. He was impressed with Elon, but realized he wants a more ‘happening’ town or city. (loved Charleston; the program–not so much). He has visited his best friend at Auburn and loved the school–the ‘something-going-on-at-all-times’ feeling. Anyone know anything about their BFA program? or ones in similar settings?</p>

<p>Any suggestions for schools to research would be appreciated. I have been studying the Freshman Class Size thread with much interest. We really need to identify some safer schools–I realize there are no true safeties for theater majors (and that is scary)–but schools with solid programs and higher acceptance rates have to be out there. Thanks again in advance!!</p>

<p>I am also interested in this topic, though a little more specifically. Schools that offer a Musical Theater major as BFA or BA, or concentration, as part of a Theatre Studies/Performance curriculum, that ALSO allows for a double major (with Business/Marketing emphasis) and perhaps even an additional language minor. Three important things are: school’s with both BFA and BA, not only casting the BFAs in musicals; the school actually does musicals; equal importance in teaching the acting, voice, and dance components of performing in musical theatre.</p>

<p>I know that’s a lot, which is why this task is so daunting!</p>

<p>MrsDrz - Welcome! You are int he Theatre/Drama forum. There is also a Musical Theatre forum that you may find to be more relevant. Here’s a recent discussion about double majoring:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1146005-double-major-major-minor-dual-degree-ect-realistic.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1146005-double-major-major-minor-dual-degree-ect-realistic.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>There are lots of great discussions going on over there. NOT running you out of this forum, as there is some really great information here, but wanted you to be aware of the other as well as it is specific to MT.</p>

<p>I teach at James Madison University in A. We have auditioned BA Musical Theatre and Theatre programs. It is possible to double major with Business (the COB does have an admissions gateway at the end of sophomore year, but students take introductory classes starting as a freshman). Depending on the number of AP/ IB/ Dual enrollment credits an admitted student has, it could also be possible to add a language minor… however, all of that together would likely take 4.5 - 5.5 years to graduate, depending on AP/ IB/ Dual enrollment credits. One of the current MT rising sophomores is completing the pre-requisit course work to declare the upper level Business Marketing Major in addition to Musical Theatre. Please feel free to PM me, or email me at <a href=“mailto:arecchkm@jmu.edu”>arecchkm@jmu.edu</a>.</p>

<p>The BA Musical Theatre program requirements at JMU are very close to the Theatre Studies/ Performance Track requirements at JMU, and students in both programs audition for both musicals and plays and work behind the scenes as well.</p>

<p>MY S just returned from the Univ of Minnesota’s Summer Elements program and he loved it–their BFA and their BA programs have moved to the top of his list (sad for me because we live in FL). I am still hoping to get more responses and advice on this thread–anyone have any other suggestions for strong acting programs with higher acceptance rates?</p>

<p>Johnsuz - I’m sure you know that the Minn/Guthrie program would definitely be a “lower” acceptance rate school, but definitely worth trying for. However, the UMinn BA dept is excellent, and if your S is interested in it, I highly recommend applying. It’s a very “likely” admit for a good student, super easy application (no essays or recs). Your S can apply pretty early in the fall and get an answer by December.</p>

<p>We have a friend who just finished her BA there, and she said the dept does wonderful things, lots of exciting performance opportunities, interesting classes, terrific profs. There is a bit of an us-them with the BFA students but not terrible, and there is collaboration: the BFA play we saw had 2 BA students in it. The play we saw that had started as a BA workshop (it was being reproduced through a local theatre, with the addition of some alums and other professionals) was outstanding and exciting, and she said that kind of thing was very much the norm.</p>

<p>The BA program is known to be more focused on the new and experimental, while the Guthrie is firmly rooted in the classical. The curriculum is online, so your S can see what the course offerings are. My D strongly considered this program, but knew that as with many BAs she would be more responsible for making things fit together for herself, and decided that she’d prefer the BFA school she was accepted to, where she can benefit from a program that’s pre-determined, and frankly more comprehensive, as BFAs usually are. But she still says that the UMinn BA would have been a great experience and she was very happy to have it as a backup from the beginning.</p>

<p>Minneapolis is such a great city for theater! I really enjoyed visiting it on our college tour. There’s alot of creativity in that town. Very evident even in the architecture.</p>

<p>but knew that as with many BAs she would be more responsible for making things fit together for herself, </p>

<p>EmmyBet, what do you mean by “she would be more responsible for making things fit together”?</p>

<p>I meant that at a large university, even with good advising, there is a certain amount of initiative a student needs to take to make their program work out: choosing classes, fitting them into their schedule, fitting them into 4 years, etc. This is pretty common for lots of BAs - it’s also one of the positives, often, since there are lots of choices.</p>

<p>But it can be an issue when a student really wants comprehensive professional training. A BFA is a sequentially laid out, structured program at most schools. Because they limit the number of students in an auditioned program, they usually have plenty of spots for them in the classes. There are choices and electives, but usually BFA students give up a little bit of freedom for a little bit more reliability.</p>

<p>At Minn, many of the BA courses would make you choose, too, among topics - maybe giving up some speech training for more movement focus, for example, the way the classes are designed. A lot of BFAs have courses with fewer credits but they cover everything evenly that way (for example, in her BFA this fall, my D will take 4 2-credit theatre courses, then 2 3-credit Honors courses in Hum/Soc Sci).</p>

<p>Nothing is perfect. But she did worry that she wouldn’t be able to make it work as conveniently in the BA at Minn the way she can in the BFA she chose instead, and that she’d be less in a “family,” more forging her own way. However, she has said frequently that she could have done a wonderful 4 years in the Minn BA and been very happy.</p>