Automatic Deferral? Please help

Colleges and Universities A-Z Brown University
1

<p>I applied ED, but wasn’t able to complete all the testing I had expected to in the required time (got really sick). So Brown received all parts of my application within the ED deadline, except instead of receiving the required two SAT II scores, they received only one. </p>

<p>My question is this: Did they ever actually read my ED application, or did they just automatically defer me because my application was considered “incomplete”? I wonder because I had several unique hooks, “best in career” recommendations, an outstanding counselor rec, scores of 5 on 4 AP tests, very high SAT I scores, a 780 on the one SAT II I did take in time, national recognition in more than one EC, multiple community college courses, an additional recommendation from a prestigious employer who “loved me”, a part-time Job during the school year since 9th grade, I speak three languages fluently, and I’m even half Native American and I’m not exaggerating any of this.</p>

<p>If they did in fact read my application and then decide to defer it, I’m kind of hurt they didn’t just “ignore” that one seemingly insignificant but nonetheless missing SAT II score. I’m also offended that Brown admitted ED some of the people from CC that they did. I didn’t know Brown was so much like what Harvard has become; are they also aiming for an undergraduate body composed mainly of unqualified “urban” outreach students? (I know I won’t be hurting anyone’s feelings by saying this, I’m just angry, and you guys were admitted ED and I wasn’t, which makes you one step above me anyway.)</p>

<p>Would anyone who knows the mechanics of Brown’s admission and deferral process please enlighten me? How do they actually go about deferring people? Do they defer any application that’s incomplete? Or do they read the application and then decide whether the missing information is important enough to warrant deferral? If you don’t actually know, do you have any suggestions as to how I could find out if my application was ever actually read? Could I just call the admission office and ask? My interviewer told me I could call/email her if I had any questions; would she be a good person to ask? My counselor is swamped at the moment so I’m trying to find out on my own. </p>

<p>I appreciate it.</p>

2

<p>I'm guessing you could call admissions and ask if they can give recommendations as too weaknesses in your application which you could improve, and also (maybe?) ask if your lack of an SAT II would have given you a worse chance.
But if you do this be verrrrry polite, any phone call you make could go on your file! I'm doubting your interviewer would know, but it couldn't hurt to ask her.
Of course, I'm just another deferree so what do I know? I sympathize with your anger but you will have to accept the fact that, yes, Brown is "another Harvard" in the way that there are no guaranteed acceptances, you can be amazing in every way possible and still not be accepted. Our class (of 2008) is the biggest class yet ever. $h!t (important $h!t) happens. Life sucks. Yep.</p>

3

<p>Don't ask about weaknesses, just ask if maybe a missing SAT II score would lead to defferal. And do not go beyond that, don't ask if adding a 800 score would get you admitted or anything like that.</p>

4

<p>There is a good chance that yes, your application was put into the "incomplete" pile and was not read. My one experience with this happened with a student I interviewed; she was notified by Brown that her application was incomplete and so would be automatically referred to regular decision. Since you didn't get that notification, it's hard to know what to think.</p>

<p>Calling the alum who interviewed you would be a good idea -- it's what the student I interviewed did when she called me. I called admissions and did learn what happened.</p>

5

<p>No harm in calling the alum, but not likely to be that helpful. I spent years as an alum interviewer for another elite college and I could never understand most of the denials of the people I interviewed. And the admissions office never offered any explanations. It is simply very competitive.</p>

<p>However, you DO have to get over both the resentment and the assumption that but for some deficiency in admissions policy, you should have been an automatic admit, without even needing your other tests scores. If this attitude comes through in your communications with the colleges, or even worse in writing in your application or recommendations, then you could be in trouble. Remember, great as your record may be, it merely establishes you are one of very many well qualified applicants. I mean it. These colleges REJECT, not just defer, lots of people who are clearly quite well prepared for academic success. I believe Harvard rejects most valedictorians who apply</p>

<p>So do not contact anyone associated with Brown admissions, not the admissions office, not your interviewer, no one, until you calm down and get some perspective.</p>

<p>Read a few posts about kids with great records who were shut out in admissions. The classic is "still picking up the pieces" story about andison. Did not seem to have the entitlement issues displayed here, but shut out nevertheless.</p>

<p>From my alum interviewer days: my elite college estimated that only about 10-15 percent of the students it admitted were academic superstars. This was a lot, and this particular college gets a huge proportion of the superstars that exist nationally. Another top college estimated that there were only about 300 math/science superstars per year applying to college across the country. They would accept virtually all of them they could convince to apply. On the other hand, 800's, 5's, and "best in career" recommendations do NOT define a superstar. These are merely somewhat better than average among the applicant pools at these colleges. Superstar, and hence automatic admit, status comes from national or international level accomplishment in something. So an Olympic medal, a math or science olympiad medal, significant published research, etc. People like that get in. Period. This group is so small that no college has to worry about accepting too many.</p>

<p>The next group is very large: People with top grades and test scores, and superb recommendations, go into a huge pool of "very well qualified". At a place like Brown this pool is much larger than the number of students they could possibly admit. So, once establishing that someone is very well qualified, they look to balance the class across interests, extracurricular activities, geography, some predictions about likely majors... This means that any one kid's prospects depend on who else happens to apply that year who overlap on these metrics. The identical mix of qualifications may get someone in one year and not the next. That is why the admissions are so unpredictable.</p>

6

<p>If you really want some feedback now, try having your guidance counselor contact the admissions office on your behalf.</p>

7

<p>My main question is whether my application was read and then deferred or just deferred automatically because of the missing score. Sly_vt gave the only pertinent response, it seems. If my application was not read and automatically deferred, then I have no issues, as it was simply a matter of established administrative procedure that couldn’t be helped. However, if Brown did indeed read my application and then choose to defer it, I don’t want to waste anymore of my time with them as I’m being recruited elsewhere, and although Brown was my first choice, I don’t like the school enough to engage in the desperate, albeit entirely acceptable, begging and “continued interest” letter-writing that is common practice among the miserable bunch of deferred applicants. If they didn’t say “yes!” the first time around then they’re not worth it, in my opinion. Call me a pompous son of *****. I don’t care. A little more candor in the application process would do us all some good. </p>

<p>None of the “attitude” I’m currently exhibiting came through in my application, recs, or communications, by the way. All five of them showed me their recs, even let me edit and make suggestions for improvement, even though I signed away my right to see them. I also had no reason until now to question Brown’s academic integrity and therefore no reason to be peeved. How was I supposed to know they admitted some of the… um…questionable applicants they did? I’m also not just academically qualified. I’m not stupid enough to believe academic qualification is enough. I’m also not just a standard-strong applicant. I understand very well why several of the 2300s on CC were deferred. They were boring and a dime a dozen. I’d defer them, too, and then probably reject them RD because there were too many of them, keeping only a handful for academic padding, of course. </p>

<p>I repeat. I am not seeking inane and patronizing responses about how academically gifted students are commonly deferred and rejected. That is entirely beside the point and something even an idiot understands. My question concerns administrative procedure at Brown and how an applicant might go about learning about it. Also, why is it wrong to simply call the admissions office and ask? There’s no secret to hide. Why should they care whether an applicant understands their deferral process? I shouldn’t even have to give my name if I don’t want to. It’s a simple and straight forward question, is it not? Should I have any reason to be frightened?</p>

<p>Afan, I already explained why I can’t with a clear conscience possibly ask my counselor to deal with my questions right now. She’s been entirely and unfairly at my disposal the last few months, neglecting hundreds of other kids who are now knocking at her door in the race to the RD finish. Why do I need a liaison for this anyway? I just turned 18, they should legally be “ok” talking the applicant instead of their mums and dads and counselors and guardians and what have you.</p>

8

<p>My guess is that you were automatically deferred, as they saw your incomplete application and decided to not pass judgment until you had submitted all required pieces of the application. I doubt they read your application at all.</p>

9

<p>From what I know and have read, incomplete applications are deferred (at least that's what it said on my deferral letter from Duke. I know, different schools, but still...)</p>

10

<p>If the SATII was required, then your file was incomplete. I doubt it was read. I suspect policy is to mark these files incomplete until all pieces are in. If still incomplete at the deadline, the file simply isn't considered/read until it is designated complete.</p>

<p>After all, there are plenty of kids who change their minds and don't finish applications. Sometimes SATs get sent or an application gets submitted (and so a file gets opened), but then the students decide not to apply so they don't complete the process. It would be a waste of admissions' time to read these files.</p>

<p>I think it would be ok to call or even email them to ask if a file is missing something, like your SATIIs, would it get read? We've found Brown admissions to be very accomodating.</p>

11

<p>There is nothing wrong with asking whether an incomplete application is reviewed at all. I was cautioning against communicating with admissions offices until you can discuss the issue in a civil manner. Your posts here indicate that you are both too angry for this now, and insulted at the notion that Brown might have actually read your application and deferred you anyway. </p>

<p>I suggested your counselor do the communicating because I assumed she could be calm and professional. Your latest post, even more inflammatory and insulting, suggests you should avoid contact with the admissions office until you calm down.</p>

<p>If you did call and ask anonymously, you might not get much of an answer. In general, people answer vague general questions with vague general responses. If you ask "Would Brown ever review an incomplete application" you probably would not get the answer to the question you are really asking which is "Did Brown review my incomplete application?" So a top recruited athlete with 4.0 and 800's across the board, but short one SAT II might be one answer, and a very competitive student who was not an automatic admit might be another. </p>

<p>I know there is a group of deferred students who beg and plead for admission, I don't know whether that does any good. The elite colleges can safely assume that most people who apply want to go, and they have plenty of people to choose from. So keeping your application active, and completing it, does not mean you are obligated to engage in a demeaning show of interest.</p>

<p>You should really calm down before you make any decisions. I assume you were very interested in Brown, since you applied ED. If so, you should not let the deferral drive your college plans. The experience you will have as an undergrad, at Brown or elsewhere, has nothing to do with whether you like the behavior of the admissions office. Whatever you found appealing about the place has not changed one bit. There are plenty of good reasons to look elsewhere and reevaluate your preferences, but being angry at the admissions people for deferring you is not a good reason.</p>

<p>So there is no time pressure. You have ample time to take the last SAT II, if you have not done so already. Then you simply wait for Brown and your other admissions decisions. About the only reasons you would need to know now would be if you are considering EDII somewhere, or an exploding offer of a scholarship. If that is your situation, then it is worth asking, but again, the answer may not be that helpful. I gather you really want to know whether they will accept you in the spring, and they are unlikely to tell you that. In any case, make sure that your communication with the office is of an entirely different tone than you are displaying here. </p>

<p>The fact that one responds with anger and insults to others accepted implies an unrealistic understanding of the admissions process, which is why I briefly reviewed the odds. If you really knew the odds, then you should not be so surprised. You were a great applicant who was deferred. You have lots of company.</p>

<p>This is not intended as insulting, but I suspect you are so angry right now that you do not recognize how you sound, and therefore you are at risk of conveying this attitude when you speak with the admissions people. Doing that would certainly hurt your chances.</p>

12

<p>I actually doubt that you got deferred just because of the missing score. They usually contact you when something is missing. Did they?</p>

<p>But being deferred is not being rejected...at all. By being too proud about not getting in the first time around to apply the next time, you're just shooting yourself in the foot, ESPECIALLY considering Brown was your first choice, your ED choice.</p>

<p>I don't care what your question concerns. You need a kick in the butt. Look, kiddo (I usually make a point of being nice and supportive to people in situations such as yours, but your attitude is warranting different...wolfman, feel free to yell at me for being a hypocrite :)), you're unique. You're awesome. You're the best thing since sliced bread. But guess what? So are A LOT of people. And A LOT of those people get deferred! it has NOTHING to do with the academic integrity of Brown and saying so is incredible hubris. </p>

<p>I was the first girl to ever play on the boys football team. I wrestled on the boys team and got 2nd at girls state and went to nationals. i played rugby and was twice selected as one of the top 50 players in the country. I was an incredibly talented potter. I did a complex science research apprenticeship that accepts 1% of applicants, and did another project with the same university department the next year. I taught ceramics classes. I mentored high schoolers as a high schooler for a science camp. i taught for another science camp. I started taking classes at the high school when i was 12. i had recs, and supplementary recs, describing me as a "science prodigy" and an "incredible trailblazer." My grades were top. Hardest classes. YOU NAME IT. </p>

<p>AND I WAS REJECTED TWICE BEFORE FINALLY GETTING IN AS A TRANSFER!!
But I didn't blame Brown, I bucked up and worked harder. </p>

<p>So get OVER yourself, and apply again! You haven't even been rejected yet!!!! Crikey.</p>