My son is interested in DAAP (applying next year) but I’m worried his stats are borderline. He currently has a GPA UW 3.323 and W 4.02, ACT 33. I know his ACT score is fine but concerned that they don’t put much weight on rigor. His Junior and Senior course loads are heavily weighted with AP courses.
He will also very likely attend the DAAP summer camp this year - would that help his application. I am having him attend mainly if he likes design as has very little exposure to the field.
He also wants to combine this with computer science so I’m not sure if that is a feasible double major or minor.
you should talk to an admissions counselor. DAAP is a very rigorous program and demands lots of time. not sure he would have time or be able to fit the classes in for a 2nd major. my daughter is an ID DAAP student. she was able to start her college career with 19 credits from AP courses…but due to the specific classes needed to take in DAAP she did not get to use most of her AP credit towards skipping courses. good luck and really talk to a DAAP admissions person.
Thanks for the feedback. He will have about 32 AP credits going in but you’re right - that doesn’t help when a lot of required coursework doesn’t overlap with AP courses. I believe Ohio State offers a minor in interdisciplinary design that might be more doable. Will definitely give admissions a call before we proceed much further down this path.
As @daapmom mentioned, DAAP’s programs are very demanding and difficult to combine with other majors. My daughter was just accepted into the DAAP Industrial Design program and she will need to make the choice if she wants to focus almost exclusively on design as that will be required if she chooses DAAP.
There are other programs at other schools that let the students achieve more “balance”. Of course, that comes at the cost of depth - which is a choice each needs to make on their own. My D applied to Georgia Tech’s design program (which is more technical than DAAP as it requires Calc and Physics), the IDEAS program at Lehigh, and the PDI program at RPI in addition to several design schools. Each of these have different focus and feel. With IDEAS and PDI, essentially 1/2 of your course work is math/science or engineering/comp sci oriented.
Also, as you mentioned @singermom4, many schools offer some sort of design minor that you can combine with another degree such as comp sci. A minor is a much smaller commitment as it typically is 4 or 5 classes in total. So, if your son has a stronger interest for comp sci but would like some exposure to design, then a minor may be a good option.
We spent a lot of time with my D trying to determine the right balance for her. She still hasn’t made a choice yet - I suspect she will make a last minute decision!
Thank you for your insights! I suspect that will be our issue as well - figuring out the balance. Studying design has been a more recently expressed interest but it seems to be taking root. He will definitely apply and hopefully attend the DAAP summer camp in order to get a better feel for what industrial design entails. Comp Sci seemed to be more of a default choice and he appears more interested in design.
Did you consider/visit RIT, Boston U, Ohio State, UW-Madison or UMN-TC? We live in the midwest and I’d prefer he was closer than farther. It’s possible our geographic search area is different. I will look into the programs you have mentioned as well.
You son sounds like my daughter. She wasn’t sure what direction she wanted to head last year. She enrolled in an art/design program this summer at CMU and really liked industrial design.
As far as design schools, my D applied to Ohio State, DAAP, Georgia Tech and CMU. We visited Virginia Tech but didn’t get to tour their design facilities. We considered Syracuse but didn’t visit as they had a 5 year program. She also applied to several engineering schools that have a design program of some sort. Per my earlier message, that included RPI, Lehigh and a few others, She also applied to WashU as a reach. We are in PA and my daughter prefers schools more on the east coast but she did apply to a few schools further away.
A few other notes. We have noticed that some industrial design programs have more of an art bent and some are more technical. RISD for example is more art focused. GT is more tech focused. The other schools are somewhere in between. Some schools require a portfolio when you apply (e.g. CMU, Syracuse, RISD) and some don’t (GT, DAAP). Also, some schools you don’t really apply to the design school until your sophomore year and you are not guaranteed to be accepted. It is based on your portfolio you develop as a freshman. Ohio State falls into this category. Finally, some schools offer design as a minor (GT, Ohio State) and others don’t (DAAP).
Hope that brain dump helps a bit. We researched majors and schools last spring and summer for months…
One last note, @daapmom and @taxguy know DAAP inside in out. Their posts have been invaluable in learning about DAAP. I’ve lurked for the past 9 months and I just want to say thanks!
You information is greatly appreciated! I don’t think we’ll get a clearer picture until he takes the summer camp. Of course, camps are usually ‘fun’ and only a snapshot of what the program involves.
I guess my other concern would be job opportunities in industrial design if it doesn’t lean technical. Another thought is to purse either design or computer science at a graduate level. In this case I would leave towards a CS major w/ design minor for undergraduate and then a masters in design.
I’m also worried his GPA is a bit low for both majors in the more competitive schools - though those would look at the rigor of his classes and essay. Iowa State also has CS with minor in design. That would be a safety option but he is not keen on going there (took a tour with his older brother in winter two years ago).
My gut feel is he would prefer the hands-on approach of DAAP to a more traditional curriculum. He has no portfolio yet and would need to start working on that for some of the schools. Did your D also have to create a portfolio from scratch during her application year?
I don’t know about DAAP, but the summer CMU art/design program was INTENSE. My daughter was in studio from morning to midnight most days during her 3 weeks. CMU tells the students that this is what they should expect in undergrad art/design school and from what we know about the top schools, including DAAP, this is the case. Of course, she had fun, bonded with some other girls, etc. but it was a ton of work. They also worked on portfolios (with pieces she did prior to and at the camp) and had faculty review their portfolios as part of the program.
Also, in terms of career prospects, it sounds like you are of the same mindset we are. Earlier in high school, my daughter wanted to pursue a career in art. We nudged her to design, but she was more focused on graphic/communication design until this past summer where she took the industrial design class (which we recommended to her). We have showed her the career outlook + average salary info for art, graphic design, industrial design and mechanical engineering. Over time, she has decided she wants to look at engineering too as the $ and job opportunities are better. She has done some robotics this past year and really likes it. If your son likes hands-on building and programming, I definitely recommend a FIRST robotics team. It’s a great experience.
We also have told my D that it’s possible to major in engineering or a more technical degree and then get a masters in design, but the reverse likely isn’t possible. Or, she can find an undergrad program that combines both. I forgot to mention that she considered Purdue as well, since they have good interdiscplinary engineering programs that combine design and engineering. They have an ID program too.
My daughter really wants a hands on, project-based curriculum as well. Some CS programs and engineering programs have started the transition to this model. Olin, a tiny engineering school near Boston, is pioneering project based-engineering education. It is 100% project based. Very interesting approach, but tiny so not for everyone and is very difficult to get in to. It’s interesting to see where things are going though… and some other schools are adopting some of what Olin has pioneered.
Sorry for the long post. I’m sure I put you to sleep.
Great discussion here about the art vs technical aspects of the different ID programs at various colleges. @fatherofsam it sounds like you’ve done a great deal of research. Thanks for your insight.
I’m an engineer/ high school STEM teacher/ FIRST robotics coach and I’m seeing more students showing an interest in the blending of art with engineering (usually mechanical engineering). It’s a natural fit. I wish more schools offered this type of program. One aspect of the ID programs I’ve seen is very minimal requirements for math courses. To me that’s a disappointment because math is such a useful skill to develop.
@fatherofsam 's comment about getting an engineering undergraduate and a masters in design sounds like a good alternative if you don’t find and ID program.
My son is interested in the art focused ID programs. We haven’t visited the DAAP program yet but it looks to be more art focused. For the schools we have visited here’s what we found:
RISD and Pratt- traditional programs with art focus
CMU and RIT- art focus with opportunities to work with interdisciplinary teams, opportunities for taking technical courses outside your major, opportunities for a technical minor
In general, I think doing a double major at these schools would be very difficult because of the intensity of the ID program.
@singermom4 my son started focusing on his portfolio at the start of 11th grade and I felt he had pressure to get his work up to the level that the colleges are looking for in time for the admissions in his senior year. The portfolio development can be very time consuming. I recommend your son get portfolio feedback early by attending national portfolio days or portfolio reviews at art colleges. My son did two portfolio reviews at RIT and several others. The feedback is very useful in guiding the improvements to the portfolio.
Thank you @fatherofsam and @geode111 ! I don’t think I could enough information on this topic so I really do appreciate all the detailed insight!
I had not considered other design camps - the one at DAAP is only 1 week - a longer camp would give a much better feel for the subject and a good start or review of a portfolio. We were mainly looking at DAAP because it is ranked so high in design and it does not require a portfolio. My S has always had an artistic interest but drawn art has taken a back seat to his music in recent years. This late resurgence of interest has gotten us scrambling!
He tends to get a bit narrowly focused once he fixes on an idea but I will make the suggestion of a mechanical engineering degree. Currently he is drifting away more from CS and towards design - though it could be the novelty of the idea that excites him. I think we will plan for different scenarios - it’s still more than a year before he will need to make a decision. His college counselor wants him to try for the extreme longshot of the Brown/RISD dual degree program (need to apply to each separately, get into both, and then your application goes to a review committee to determine entry to the dual degree program). We need to figure out a good university tour plan for spring break - all the choices are geographically spread out and several are reaches.
@fatherofsam is the CMU camp on a first-come basis or based on the merit of the application?
@singersmom4 I believe the CMU camp is based on merit, but they have expanded the # of kids that they admit in past year or two. Technically, it is an art + design camp. My daughter took a drawing class, an animation class and an ID class. They did not require a portfolio to be admitted into the camp. They have two, 3 week camps and some choose to do the full 6 weeks. We chose the 3 week camp.
We looked at the Brown/RISD program too but didn’t pursue primarily due to cost, though it would have been a long shot to get admitted as well. My daughter has pretty good stats (3.85UW with 9 APs, 35 ACT, decent ECs, etc.) and I doubt she would be admitted to both Brown and RISD. Also, similar to the 3/2 engineering programs, I think it would be hard to move and live on a different campus after bonding with a group of friends.
@geode111 - I agree that more schools should offer a blend of design with a tech field such as engineering or computer science. Schools appear to be heading that way but slowly. Stanford’s product design is actually a specialization of mechanical engineering. MIT has a similar product design program within ME. Northwestern has a similar program as well. These were reaches for my daughter, both in terms of admission and cost so we looked at these only briefly. My daughter did apply to Olin and RPI’s DIS program both of which place heavy emphasis on design and hands-on, project based work but have an engineering component as well…
It’s tough when our sons/daughters have such wide interests! At least my son, a junior in HS, is more focused on comp sci. Won’t require so much research!
@fatherofsam I took a look at CMU’s website and it appears they are only offering a 6 week camp (which also runs into our school year - or band camp at least). Though when I mentioned the 3 weeks to S he balked a bit. You mentioned a good point about bonding with college friends and that is one of my concerns with DAAP coop program. Since the kids disappear from campus for a semester, doesn’t that affect the solidity of their friendships?
Another thought if he purses a technical degree such as CS as a major and design as a minor with the intention of the a Masters in Design - how hard is it to get into these graduate design programs? Will a minor in design or possibly no design experience count against getting in to the better masters programs? I suggested S contact heads of departments at the design schools he is interested in to ask this question. Of course, he is still behind on his analysis of the different schools so we can plan our spring break trip so it could be false hopes here!
@singermom4 - I checked now as well and it does look like CMU quit offering the 3 week camp. Last year, art and design was the only camp that was not a 6 week camp. We couldn’t have done the 6 week camp as that is a HUGE commitment. That’s disappointing as I’m sure that’s the case for many families.
With co-ops, I would think all the kids are on the same schedule. So while it disrupts them a bit to be away, they are all back at the same time, can share experiences, etc. With 3/2 programs and the Brown/RISD program, I feel like they would be pretty much on their own… Not sure if anyone with kids in DAAP can share their experiences.
I’m not sure how hard it is to get into grad school for ID in general. I suspect they will need a good portfolio and grades but I haven’t really researched this. For Georgia Tech, I had read that if you take a minor in ID during undergrad, you can pursue their 2-years masters without any additional coursework. I’m not sure about other schools. I think contacting the design schools is a great idea. I do think there is a path in most schools to get that masters without a bachelor’s in design.
Good luck on your search. I’d like to say that we have it all figured out… but that’s far from the truth!
my daughter is a 3rd year ID DAAP student. With regard to co-ops. they will take basic courses first semester with all DAAP freshman. 2nd semester they start their program with their major in DAAP. they will have their summer off first year. then they go into trimesters. 2nd semester of their sophmore year, they will upload a resume and portfolio with work they did their freshman year, and any projects they might have done on their own. they will meet with their co-op advisor and the advisor will tell them which jobs to apply to with regard to their talents thus far. 2 weeks after the semester starts they will be going to classes as well as interviewing for co-ops. so spring semester of their sophmore year they will be on a co-op…you do not pay the full tuition the semesters they are on co-op, you will pay a fee of $450. then they will be in classes summer semster, and so on…every other semester for the next 4 years will be the same. at school taking classes, then a co-op, then taking classes, and so on. they will be competing for the co-op jobs with students the year ahead of them. they will be on the same schedule with everyone they start with. the ID program is a 5 year program because of the co-ops. if they want to get their masters they go for another year after applying for the masters program. the first co-op for my daughter she found something on her own (you can do this as long as the company does not work with the co-op program at UC). it was a learning experience for my daughter, because she had never worked before because in high school she played travel softball so she was unable to work due to the commitment of softball. her 2nd co-op was found through the co-op program and she was able to help create a product and design and help build it. it was also a product that the company introduced to the market place during a trade show. she is now starting the interview process for her next co-op…since the other group that she had competed with for previous co-ops is graduating this year it is just her group (i think her ID class started out freshman year with 100 students and is now down to 67 students).
i hope this has helped you all a bit…co-ops are an amazing thing for the students to go through, job experience, plus they get paid…but once they start the co-ops they only have 2 weeks off between semesters. makes it very hard to see your student when you live out of state.
@daapmom - Thank you so much for the detailed information on the co-op program. It provides great insight in how it differs from a traditional curriculum.
So it is only co-op students on the trimester schedule other students at the university are on a two semester system? What if your student wants to participate in marching band or other music ensembles?
What are the major reasons for the rather large drop-off after freshman year? I know this is true of many programs across colleges so I’m not alarmed just curious as to the main reasons.
you are only on a trimester if you are in a program with a co-op. you can opt out of 1 co-op but then you lose the experience. not sure about participating in marching band, etc., something you would have to ask the admissions counselors at DAAP. it is a very rigorous program and some kids just opted to leave the program. my daughter was scared because she had heard all these people doing all nighters. if you stay on top of everything you might stay up late a night or two but she has only done 3 all nights in her time there…both this present semester. happy to say that portfolios just "went live on wednesday last week and she had an interview on friday and got offered a job today. now to start looking for a place for her to live.
@daapmom - Great info about the co-op experience with the ID program! It sounds very intense but the rewards come very quickly. congratulations to your daughter on her co-op.
The ID curriculum shows 5 co-ops over the 5 years. Are you saying 4 are required and the 5th is optional? How many weeks is a trimester? Do the hiring companies help students find housing during their assignment?
the summer co-op that she will be on is may 8 - august 5. fall semester starts august 21. if you do not get placed on a co-op you can “opt out” and take your general required classes and electives but cannot take anything in DAAP. some co-ops have housing but most of them do not. so you are on your own to find housing. her first co-op she found on her own and it was in yonkers new york and we found her a room in a family’s home using airbnb.com, her 2nd co-op was 30 minutes from UC so she stayed in the house she was living in. now we need to find a room for her near toledo. she was told the company will giver her $1,000 relocation grant. she has not called them yet to accept the job. they called her this morning on her way to class and she told them she needed to check with her parents and will call them back.
