<p>"Is it documented fact or is it extrapolation? If it's fact please don't tell me to ask some one else, tell me where you got it. If it's speculation, say so."</p>
<p>It is a documented fact, but because of agreements with Wechsler, only the school can provide you with the documentation.</p>
<p>These two recent articles from the Mt. Vernon, Ohio newspaper in the aftermath of the alcohol related death of a Kenyon student should be relevant to this discussion:</p>
<p>I think that in addition to looking at different schools' overall social atmosphere in terms of substance use, you have to look carefully at subcommunities. At virtually all top schools, there is a drinking culture that is more or less dominant, and its the "easy choice" in terms of meeting people and getting out. If you want to take a different path, itll take some proactive work on your part. My experience was, the more you find people with common interests (theater, club sports, music, spirituality, debate...) the easier it is to have fun without drinking. </p>
<p>I went to parties all the time in college where virtually everyone was drinking, and had a great time while abstaining (or nursing one drink all night). If you're around people you enjoy, and who enjoy you, they won't care -- I guarantee. No one seemed to notice. I also spent half of college as a legal-age drinker, and spent alot of time in bars sitting around talking, listening to music, etc. In high school I thought the lines were alot more defined -- there were the kids who drank, who were invited to the parties, and the kids who didnt and studied hard, etc. In college, (or top colleges at least), everybody studies, and to some extent, everybody parties, because you have to have fun and blow off steam and meet people. You can go out and not drink and have a good time -- but you have to be outgoing and fun to be around and secure in that decision. </p>
<p>I think you can perhaps rule out some schools because of the social culture (perhaps) but I think you have to think more about finding the right people no matter where you end up. Extracurriculars of interest especially, maybe substance-free residential communities...Its not going to be <em>easy</em> wherever you go, itll take some effort, but itll pay off. You can't generalize about the experience at a place like Stanford, for example -- its large and diverse and there is such a spectrum of experiences. Plenty of people make their way happily through school without binge drinking -- don't limit your choice of school unnecessarily thinking it will be easily avoided though.</p>
<p>I am looking for a school like emswim too. so, how about we make a list of some schools that match this criteria too?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Its not going to be <em>easy</em> wherever you go, itll take some effort, but itll pay off.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't think that's the case. There are colleges where it is easy to be a non-drinker or occasional drinker. </p>
<p>According to the most recent COFHE survey at my daughter's school, taken in the spring semester, 30% of the freshman had not had alcohol in the previous year (in other words, abstainers) and 43% had not had alcohol in the previous month. Those numbers shift slightly away from abstension in subsequent years, but still 35% of the sophmores and 30% of the juniors had not drunk alcohol in the previous month.</p>
<p>Those are pretty significant percentages, enough to achieve a critical mass of kids who are not basing their social activities around alcohol. Enough so that there are going to be a sizeable chunk of freshmen on every floor of every dorm who do not drink or drink like normal people. Certainly enough so that it wouldn't be considered "weird" or unusual.</p>
<p>There are schools out there where the drinking culture is not dominant. For example, I believe that most of the woman's colleges have similar, if not even lower, binge drinking rates. I saw a published binge drinking rate for Grinnell that was in the same moderately low range (33%). Actually, if more kids (and parents) would look at this issue in choosing which college to buy, it might actually bring some good old-fashioned free market pressure to bear.</p>
<p>Go to Wheaton College in Illinois. No drinking at all...grounds for expulsion. Good LAC that can get into any graduate school in the country. They have gotten a little wacky recently. They had their first dance in school history last year.</p>
<p>Is there a lot of partying at these schools, or at least a large number of non-bingedrinkers? Johns Hopkins, Chicago, Emory, or WASHU?</p>
<p>Quote: "Actually, if more kids (and parents) would look at this issue in choosing which college to buy, it might actually bring some good old-fashioned free market pressure to bear."</p>
<p>I think we are just leasing for four years. (I hope). :)</p>
<p>New approach to clubs in Madison:</p>
<p>Good idea??</p>
<p>Out of the schools on your list:
10 highest in party ability</p>
<p>Miami of Ohio -- 8.5
Stanford --- 7.5
Princeton --- 7
Rice --- 3.5
Wash-U --- 6
Duke --- 5.5
Notre Dame -- 6
Emory --- 7
USC --- ?
Michigan --7.5
IU ---?
Purdue --- ?</p>
<p>lol, sounds like you've never been to rice...</p>
<p>Emswim, I agree with Chedva that you should add JHU to your list,especially if your going to be pre-med.It has a beautiful campus and is more of a academic rather than a party school.Its BME dept. is ranked #1 in the nation and it has a extremely high acceptance to med school. A lot of people who have never visited nor actually know anybody who has ever attended will scare the death out of you with myths.Yes, it is a highly competitive school but not "cutthroat".Students do work together and help each other study.What do they do on the weekends?Some go down to the Harbour,movies,mall etc. The school always has some type of entertainment going on-acapella groups,theatre,etc.They have an escort service that takes students off campus and picks them up. They also have substance free dorms and all dorms/suites are smoke free.Those that do smoke must go outside to do so.There are many great schools out there and I applaud you for
inquiring now while you still have plenty of time to visit different them and narrow down your choices.Good luck!</p>
<p>Jenskate, what do you mean by that? What are parties like at Rice?</p>
<p>"take the database of several hundred alcohol admissions to the health center or hospital from the last three years and see who the kids are. What high schools are they from? What ECs do they participate in? What race are they? Stop admitting those profiles."-interesteddad</p>
<p>Isn't that called discrimination?</p>
<p>I would certainly hate to be categorized because all the other white kids or dancers or people from my high school were binge drinkers. Just because other people do something does not mean I do. That completely ruins the idea of individuality and beating the odds and creating your own person. I would hate to have to kiss my dream school goodbye because some other loser decided to mess it up for me. You simply CAN NOT do that. In fact, there is a US supreme court case which says that race can not be the single determining factor in the admissions process (Bakke vs. UC). For example, what if you have a certain student who has all the same credentials, grades, everthing as all the other applicants, but oh, they belong to a race that supposedly drinks more? You're not going to let them in? That's unconstitutional. I'm sorry, but your race, extra curriculars, and high school do not create who you are and make your decisions. You do. I would hate for someone to tell me I wasn't an individual making my own decisions anymore, that someone else was.</p>
<p>As for putting questions on an application to weed out people who drink: Any student who has recently completed the admissions process, as I have, would tell you that it's a game you learn to play. Obviously you aren't going to put "I chose this school because I want to party on the weekends." It doesn't take a phD to know that. High school seniors aren't as stupid as you think. We know how to play the game.</p>
<p>As for teachers writing on college reccommendations if a student is a heavy drinker...hello, I'm not going to give a teacher who doesn't approve of me or what I do a reccommendation nor am I going to ask them to send me in one. I'm going to pick a teacher who is going to give me a raving review. That's the way you do it, you don't just get anyone to write your review.</p>
<p>Don't penalize those who have learned to make wise decisions because of what others have done.</p>
<p>My DD goes to Rice and is a light drinker. There are lots of parties, themed and non-themed - and she enjoys them even when she is not drinking. One of her favorite parties was the Archi-student party, which I believe had a great art exhibit, body painting, live music etc. Rice has themed parties for 80's, "screw your roommate" (set your roommate up with a blind date), night of decadence, etc. etc. I do hope that there will be a reduction in drinking w/ the advent of greater scrutiny from the new Rice President - but according to my DD, Rice is great even if you are not a drinker.</p>
<p>there are plenty of parties at rice. drinking is allowed on campus, and the alcohol policy isnt very strictly enforced. 3.5 is way to low.</p>
<p>THIS IS MY 100th POST TOO!</p>
<p>My S reported that at his prospie stay at UChicago (during the week) he was invited to a couple of parties, and people were having fun doing a range of things. One of the roommates came back from the party a little drunk, the other roommate and my S stayed up til 3 AM going over calculus proofs, now that is real fun, ...Chicago style.</p>
<p>It all depends on the student. idad's son had a totally different experience at Chicago that my firend's son who had never done drugs or drank. He flunked out after getting involved in drugs/drinking at Chicago. If you really really want a nondrinking culture you should probably go to a school with that reputation - someplace like Grove City College, or BYU. Your other choice would be to select a school with substance free housing. It's very hard to get away from drinknig at any college. It can be done, but you may be more comfortable in one of the 2 previously mentioned environments. Why have to search for friends in a school where it's party central, when you can just choose one that doesn't have that reputation? I think the worst choice would be a really small school with a party reputation. You will be limited by numbers of people to choose from as friends. Even at UVA, which has the work hard / play hard / high percent of frats reputation, DD was able to find tons of friends that were interested in doing things besides drinking. With 12,000 students there are just going to be nondrinkers. OTOH, if you are at a teatotalling school or living in a substance free drom it's going to be easier to find them. I like the College ******* or Fiske Guides as a source for this information.</p>
<br>
<p>night of decadence, etc.</p>
<br>
<p>Heh. One of my good friends spent his freshman year at Rice. There was a bare-as-you-dare party a couple of years in a row, and he won it his freshman year; it was a jungle theme, and he wore two bunches of bananas on a string. The previous year, the theme had been "outer space," and the winning party guest wore a Mars bar wrapper.</p>
<p>The focus on statistics is misplaced. The difference between 35% and 45% binge drinking is simply not significant due to inevitable differences in reporting standards. The real issue is, if you don't like being around or seeing drunk people, what is the likelihood you will encounter one on campus in any given instance?</p>
<p>The fact is there is going to be plenty enough drinking to see drunks, and a lot of visible drinking and partying, at every college, except, those colleges that have a well-enforced no drinking policy. Mormon and Baptist colleges come to mind, and others I am sure. I know Abilene (TX) Christian College and Oral Roberts U. have minimal, basically invisible, drinking populations. DS2 who attends a large private in California has several acquaintances from Utah that he says chose to attend his school to get away from the drinking-shunning of that state.</p>