Back to Square One

Parents Forum
21

<p>Sage44 - So many issues on your plate. I totally sympathize with the stress of the moment. I don't feel I understand your situation well enough to recommend direction to go. But... a few things I've learned while doing the college app process all over again for transfer: there are a number of schools whose applications are truly just clicking a few buttons online and pressing submit (plus paying the fee, of course). If you think more apps at this time, might be wise - seek those out. There are also many schools where SATs aren't needed at all - have you already looked at these? Are any of them of interest for your S.
<a href="http://www.fairtest.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.fairtest.org&lt;/a>. Whether his old SAT scores will suffice seems to vary school by school for transfers; freshman apps may be more restrictive, maybe not.
I would think he could certainly take the kinds of courses you have in mind at venues which wouldn't compromise his Freshman status at a future school - Adult Ed, Continuing Ed kind of thing.</p>

<p>Finally, do I interpet the situation correctly? S has been accepted to a couple of LACs which are appropriate; but you are uncertain he'll be ready for the experience by fall? and you are certain he is <em>not</em> ready at the moment? In that case, I think you might consider accepting the admission to whichever school he most prefers (hoping that the deposit $ are not too stiff). A lot can happen between now and late August. Meanwhile, you can figure out what is involved in informing them that he wants to defer for a year - deadlines for doing this under varying circumstances.</p>

<p>Keep the faith. We are here to help.</p>

22

<p>I'm missing something. What is the danger in accepting one, and then deferring ? You can still apply elsewhere next year (right?), or attend the one deferred. By August, he may be ready to go (kids can change awfully quickly at this age.) If not, it's no big deal in the scheme of things.</p>

23

<p>If child accepts the offer from one of the LACs admitted to, then defers for a year in order to gap, is it ethical to apply to other colleges during the gap year?? If it is ethical to do, because child and child's needs have changed, then I assume that all we do is forfeit deposit. Are there any other obligations beyond that for addl monies??</p>

24

<p>It is ethical unless you've signed an agreement prohibiting you from doing so. I think it is a financial agreement rather than an ethical one, and the agreement says you forfeit the deposit. But you can see if the college has a form.</p>

25

<p>Sage:</p>

<p>fwiw: Harvard's dean of admissions has stated repeatedly that he definitely prefers kids who have taken a gap year, for all the positive reasons. Of course, your child may not be considering H, but the point that many educators look favorably upon a gap year.</p>

26

<p>It sounds to me like you are jumping too far ahead, trying to fit your child into a predictable albeit slightly different timetable. Without knowing the circumstances, I think it's fair to assume these are substantial issues if your child has lost all forward momentum. That sounds serious...I wouldn't be concerned too much about college plans, I'd be focusing right now on what's broken (I'm sure you are). Sounds to me you will be throwing your money away if child starts college this fall. </p>

<p>Of course I'd contact each school with your concerns and the possible scenarios so you know the alternatives for your own sake. Sounds to me child might not want to hear about taking things like time management,etc. I doubt if these would be effective in any way if he hasn't worked through his major issues.</p>

27

<p>2331 - I agree with you - this kiddo sounds like he needs time to 'heal' - and not ready right now to face too much relating to college. But mom needs to at least inquire about all the options available and then decide from there the when/where things. There is alot of time to make decisions - albiet now or later - but they need to be informed decisions.</p>

28

<p>2331clk - I'm trying to preserve options, knowing that if too much time passes between the end of high school and the start of college that it'll be back to square one with the loss of many skills, the need for new rounds of standardized testing, etc. Child has/had all that was needed to move on to the next stage until these issues set in, but IMHO would find it very difficult to start all over again to rebuild to that readiness state. I fear it would end here.</p>

<p>I think child has a lot of wonderful things to offer, but husband and I are quite near retirement age and frankly are very tired from the struggles of a lifetime and raising a special needs (ADD, processing speed, some health issues) child. We, of course, are willing to do what is right to wait this out, but we, too, are ready to move on to a quieter time in our life and can't imagine 6 more years of the dance (1 gap, 5 college...particularly if they contain as much upheaval as the past 1-1/2).</p>

<p>Child is receiving therapy trying to root out source of demotivation/paralysis, but it's slow going. And I am in 100% complete agreement with you that it would be money down the drain to start college now. Sad part is that child needs the social part of this because child lacks close friendships here, and the top LAC offers a very nice social match along with great academics...but, ahhh, it's not simply about the social. We mourn the fact that the timing of the crash and burn is just so bad.</p>

29

<p>Sage,</p>

<p>I have not read through the entire thread (will do so later) but just wanted to let you know that there are still colleges where the application deadline has not passed. I did a search through common app, you may have to scroll through a few pages but there are still schools taking apps.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.commonapp.org/search.cfm?pg=1&srtCol=4&srtOrder=ASC%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.commonapp.org/search.cfm?pg=1&srtCol=4&srtOrder=ASC&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

30

<p>Sage,</p>

<p>what does your son what to do? Has he expressed any desires or reservations? Has his therapist made any suggestions? Does he like the LACs he applied to? Does he feel comfortable there? Does either of the LACs have support services for his ADD and special needs?</p>

<p>And community college is NOT the end of the road. Oldest DD, started her college career at a community college which gave her a great foundation especially with regards to calculus, biology, chemistry and all her other lower division pre-requisites for vet school. She transfered to a top tier 4 year university and will be graduating in May with a BS in animal science. She will be continuing with grad school and vet school. All at the same 4 year university. Her small class sizes (at CC) in chem and bio really helped her for o-chem, micro, biochem and her upper-division sciences. She is graduating right on time with regards to her high school graduation, it really doesn't have to be the end.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

31

<p>My community college fear is rooted in the fact that I think child can achieve a 2.0+, but not the 3.0+ needed to transfer from a community college into a 4-year institution. Bottom line, I believe, it would be easier for child to get accepted directly into a 4 year college (when "healed", ready, and with promised supports) than to transfer into one because of special needs and processing speed issues..but again, that's my perception at this juncture.</p>

<p>So, main bias against community college is transfer requirements may be more difficult than direct admit for dear child and lack of social opportunities (which are important for dear child).</p>

<p>We've found that what's made this process so difficult that there are so many requirements that it's hard to meet them all.</p>

32

<p>Sage44, I am in a somewhat similar situation with my child minus the college acceptances. I understand how frustrating this is and the wishing about how things could be. I almost feel emotionally paralyzed, damned if you do, damned if you dont. I'm trying to realize that it is ultimately up to our kids to make their choices and mistakes. I would have a heart to heart with your son and see what he feels is the best direction for him. </p>

<p>My D keeps bouncing back and forth between what she wants to do and it's driven me to the edge lol. She's dismissing colleges that are a good fit academically because the state they are located in is not "cool" and I don't mean the weather. All this made me realize that she is probably emotionally immature and not ready for a true college experience - yet.</p>

<p>katwkittens, what a wonderful story. It gave me hope as it's looking like my child will be starting at a community college.</p>

33

<p>DD did not lack in social opportunities at her community college. She was able to make many friends and especially a large diversity, but did not have as much exposure to "partying", more "studying" friends. So she was able to transfer with a 3.85 GPA. </p>

<p>The community college also had writing and math labs and extra tutors available for note taking skills, research organization, time management, writing and math skills. All provided at no charge. </p>

<p>Since her lab classes were often taught by the professor who did both the lecture and lab, she developed wonderful relationships with them. Some she later did research for and some willingly became her mentors, who went on to write great letters of recs for her. Once she got to the 4 year, the dept. chair remarked how the letters (from other college profs) really helped them when deciding on dept. scholarship awards, as did her previous research.</p>

<p>Dept. chair is now her mentor/advisor and at her last meeting also commented on how DD was better prepared than others especially with regards to writing, and her lab techniques. All the result of her CC instructors. Since there were always less then 20 students in her classes, they really focused on the lab write-ups, essays, and presentations, something not often stressed in large 4 year universities for science majors.</p>

<p>Community college success is subject to the same things as a 4 year college. You get out of it what you are willing to put into it. Truly researching all your options will result in optimal results for your child.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

34

<p>Katwkittens - I agree with Kyedor, your story is one of great hope. I believe, however, that your DD is a much brighter student than my dear child. Perhaps, tho, some of that fairy dust will rub off....</p>

<p>Kyedor - I feel your pain. If only I could talk with my child (and heaven knows I try). My child will not even talk about anything of substance. It's like the child is not there. This has been true it seems like forever. </p>

<p>My child seems to have very few, or very few shareable thoughts. We are not able to engage in any meaningful conversations so no forward progress is possible. It is horrible. We cannot talk or plan together. It's not like we have a bad relationship; it's like child is vacant. Child wants to be an "adult" and not be "managed", but does not function as an adult. It feels like nobody's home. Very odd. Like the child views life in a pixie like way. If there are plans, I'm certainly not really aware of them. I do know that child has a longing to be Navy seal, but with plethora of prior and current health issues, that's not likely to occur. I've gently suggested, as have military friends of ours, that likelihood is small, but that good approach would be to prepare for allied field, but pixie like thinking keeps child focusing on that longterm. It's like child is living in a dream and can't seem to see reality, or plan interim steps to find colleges, figure out steps to apply, etc. To me, it's really quite stunning, because we're here to help, answer Qs, etc...but there are never any discussions, Qs, etc. Like no one's home. It's like child doesn't know what to ask, or forgets what to ask, or doesn't care to ask, or expects us to do the work, but yet if we intervene throws a hissy fit because child is an "adult". Really quite amazing.</p>

<p>It's like child's life is deferred out because it's all so confusing and overwhelming that child either can't cope or just doesn't know what to do and so does nothing...and time just passes....</p>

35

<p>I sympathize, Sage, as my husband and I have been there with our son. "Impaired reality testing" was one of the labels the psychologist applied to him. The mistake we made--our son was in 10th grade when he crashed and burned--was we focused too much on salvaging college plans. Not that we weren't seeking answers to what was causing the crashing and burning; we were, and I know you are too. But we were too focused on nitty-gritty details concerning college choices as more and more doors seemed to be closing on him. </p>

<p>He was drowning on the way to a ship he wasn't ready to sail, and we were standing on the shore throwing life preservers at him as we pushed him on toward that ship. What he really wanted was permission to paddle back to shore and sit for awhile until he was ready to swim back out and catch another ship. Of course, we were too concerned that there would not be another ship or that it wouldn't be as good as the first one. </p>

<p>In the end, and after much trauma and upheaval and some therapy, our son took a 5th year of high school at a local private day school that helped him with his organization problems, his procrastination, his lack of attention to detail, etc., and to repeat some classes to bring up his grades. But most of all he needed more time. </p>

<p>I'm not suggesting this to you, as it doesn't appear that your child needs more high school. But I am suggesting that the whole subject of college may have become larger than life. It's important, yes, but there are many different paths to get there. After 5 years of high school, our son will need 5 years to complete college. We knew that when he went in. I wish it weren't so, but the alternative, not going at all, is worse. </p>

<p>What about a combination of 1 or 2 classes at a cc plus some other activity that your child would like to pursue? Classes of your child's choosing, not things that college admissions people want to see. Maybe something completely different, something hands-on perhaps (my son loved ceramics). Or something in a subject area that your child truly enjoys. And an activity that your child might really enjoy, not something that college admissions people would be impressed with. By the end of the year, my son was ready to go to college. His friends had all gone before him, he'd had enough of living at home, and although he was still scared, he was ready to tackle college. </p>

<p>If the LAC(s) would still take your child after a year of taking a smattering (perhaps even some non-transferable) cc classes and working/volunteering/river rafting/whatever, perhaps giving your child a year to mature while knowing that there is a college out there waiting and without having another round of college apps and tests to face could go a long way toward taking the heat off and allowing your child to resurface?</p>

36

<p>Sage44, is your kid communicative with other people? If he isn't communicative with anybody, then he needs a therapist and the school talk should be diminished.</p>

<p>If he is communicative with other people, then a high school or college counselor would probably be more helpful then his parents in helping him figure out what he wants.</p>

37

<p>Sage44 - Do you think the 2 college acceptances is the cause of the recent change in your son? Suddenly the prospect of leaving home and attending college is a scary reality, not just an unattainable pipe dream. It is certainly not unusual for all school work to cease after the first college acceptance! </p>

<p>Your description fits my son in many ways (except no interest in becoming a Navy seal). When we sent him off to college I realized that one possible scenario would be our returning in 3 weeks to take him home, unbathed, teeth unbrushed, after not getting out of bed for 3 weeks. Somewhat to our surprise he has actually been functioning at college and he made it through the first semester. </p>

<p>I think it is too early to give up on your son attending college in September. There is a lot of time between now and then. He needs some time (and has some time) for the idea to sink in. Take it one step at a time. Let's graduate from HS first! :)</p>

38

<p>Sage, we had some similar issues with our oldest. We really wanted him to go to a four year college, get a "fresh start" after a horrific senior year in high school, and he was accepted to two LAC's, and we even put down the deposit for housing, and then he chose to go to our local community college and work. He is now at one of the Cal States, in his sixth year of school, and it looks like it will be seven before he is done, but it does look like he will get a degree. Let's just say he has had ups and downs, and I happen to know that you can transfer to a four year school with a <em>less than stellar</em> GPA at a community college. So, no matter what happens, don't feel like it is all over for your S concerning college. In this country there are so many options, chances at starting over again. At every level.</p>

39

<p>Sage 44- Reading about your situation takes me back about two years when our son was a senior in high school. He had always been a solid B student but still was rather disinterested in the college application process. Lots of pushing on our part to get those apps done, essays written. Most college visits were thrown together AFTER the acceptances came in (he got in to all but his first choice school, even got some merit scholarships.) But still, he seemed so distant from the process and we could never figure out why. And then it all came apart after he had sent in his deposit to the university of his choice. By April of his senior year, in the home stretch, he started to experience anxiety issues so bad he could not get himself to go to school. Did not tell us for quite a while. We got lots of help for him both from the school administration (who were wonderful) and also outside therapy and treatment. It was a struggle but he managed to graduate with his class in June despite excessive absences in his final trimester. </p>

<p>The school psychologist told me that every year they see this happen to a handful of seniors just as they are getting ready to graduate. They get right down to the end and become paralyzed at the thought of going off to college. Some even try to sabotage their own ability to graduate by cutting school, having disciplinary problems, failing subjects. It was suggested to us that our son might be doing just that- trying not to graduate because he harbored deep fears he was not ready to handle college. Of course, it was hard for us to fathom this as he had never had any LD's, disciplinary problems, even had practically perfect attendance throughout high school. He SAID he wanted to go to college but I now think it was because he knew that was what was expected of him by his parents and also a high school that sends 95% of its graduates on to college. He continued in therapy and treatment over the summer after graduation and his then-therapist suggested he might need a year off so he could get more treatment. However, our son felt he should try to go to college anyway since he did not know what else to do and did not want to stay home when all his friends were leaving for colleges themselves. I have to admit that we were not certain what to do with him if he stayed home either and in retrospect we unwisely let him start college in the Fall of 2004. While he enjoyed living away from home and the social aspects of college, he was not ready to take on the academics, as smart as he was. He found himself unable to focus in class (some were large introductory lecture courses) and stopped going to class. He tried to pretend all was well when we spoke to him on the phone but within 5 weeks he admitted he had missed so much class he did not know how to get caught up. A couple trips up to the school and some university counseling later, it was decided that his best course of action was to withdraw after 8 weeks. If he withdrew, he kept his good standing at the university and could come back after a leave of absence. If he had not withdrawn he would have failed all his subjects and would have faced academic dismissal from the university. We wanted him to have the option of returning in good standing.</p>

<p>He is still home with us now, still in treatment (for ADHD, depression and anxiety issues). He is doing better though and may return to college in the fall, by then a 20 year old First Year. We will see, nothing certain yet. I guess the only thing I would say is if I could go back two years I would have done things differently. I think we were so emotionally invested in sending our firstborn off to college that we allowed him to go even when the professionals were telling us he was not ready yet. Life throws us curveballs and we need to respond appropriately even when it hurts us as parents to lay the college plans aside for a while.</p>

<p>The other thing I would throw out to you is to really study the types of services each college might offer for emotional or learning disabilities. What environment will be more secure and helpful to the student? I now believe our son should have chosen the small LAC with the merit scholarship rather than the larger public university he never expected to get into (although the university was wonderful in dealing with our son). Anyway, I wish you all the best as you deal with this. Get all the outside help you can, ask lots of questions, and be ready for the road to twist and turn. Good luck!</p>

40

<p>To everyone -</p>

<p>I deeply appreciate all your comments. The pain and confusion you feel as a parent is so profound, and the anxiety is intense.</p>

<p>1Down2togo, Mstee, Jdasmom - </p>

<p>Did any of you experience the inability of your children to communicate with you? You know that something is really wrong, but it's like the elephant in the room. You know it's there and want to talk about it, but your child does not, or cannot. We got child a male therapist in hopes that communications would be better. They are, but it seems that if those communications are better, those at home are worse, because therapist is focusing on "parentectomy". It's like "parentectomy" is also removing loving parent connectivity and input. Independence good; child isolation not so good.</p>

<p>My child acts very calm and controlled, but I know there's ADD, depression, and probably well-hidden anxiety/fear there. So Jdasmom, in that way our kids are similar.</p>

<p>I hear your wisdom. I feel that longing to keep the dream, but I have felt strongly for a long while that going off to school now would be a huge mistake because it would destroy child's self-esteem. And, Jdasmon, living away at school and the social life would at this point be the primary motivation, like for your child...probably a form of escapism.</p>

<p>It's just so tough to come to a decision with an in absentia child, because this child has so strong a desire to be independent. How can a loving parent give voice to that child who would like to paddle back to shore without making child feel like life is being controlled as if child is a baby??</p>