<p>@Walker1194 - nothing more to add here other than “been in your shoes”. Thankfully, the CC community will be here to help. 
You’ll be pleasantly surprised the friends you make on here. Already met several CC moms and dads whose kids will attend schools with my S’s – including one probable roommate. Sing with me: “It’s a small world…” Enjoy the ride.</p>
<p>I’ve had singer friends who are graphic designers on the side. Did not mean to offend, but there are some people who are really talented visually and vocally and they combine it all together. As for me, no amount of schooling could ever make me a visual artist of any type - well maybe stick figures.</p>
<p>VT</p>
<p>I also don’t have anything profound to add, I don’t think except to tag onto the “You’ve come to the right place!” sentiment.</p>
<p>Many of us have had to be talked down off the ledge this past year and it’s not over yet! I’ve had some of the KINDEST PM’s this past month from those who went through it last year and before.</p>
<p>I do want to say that I think the vast majority of people end up in a career that’s only tangentially related to their bachelor’s degree. I, for example, have a degree in Communication Studies with a concentration in Television. Right out of college I was a flight attendant, then a prison guard, then a real estate appraiser. Left work to stay home and raise my kids, and now, 21 years later I’m going to re-invent myself again. Still don’t know what I’m going to emerge from my “mommy cocoon” as, but whatever it is, all of my past work, time as a mom, AND education will have contributed to preparing me for it. And I think all of our kids are the same. Any education is preparation for life and if they DON’T end performing professionally, and they don’t start their own business or do some freelance teaching or whatever, there are many employers that only ask that a person have a Bachelor’s Degree in any field. They will be in GREAT shape. I just know it.</p>
<p>Edited to add: I’ve posted this article before, but I think this is a great place to post it again!
<a href=“http://tomvanderwell.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2012/01/16/10-ways-being-a-theatre-major-prepared-me-for-success/[/url]”>http://tomvanderwell.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2012/01/16/10-ways-being-a-theatre-major-prepared-me-for-success/</a></p>
<p>Short Answer: yes, we were realistic enough to create a backup plan. </p>
<p>Long Answer: Did that include NOT “totally going for it?” No.</p>
<p>Odds are, my Son, no matter how talented, no matter how driven, will not become a Broadway phenom and may not make enough money to sustain himself as a working actor at all. But…our favorite phrase? “Somebody gets to be Peyton Manning (right place, right time, household name*)…why not go for it?” Be realstic about your chances, but totally go for it.</p>
<p>Backup Plan: He was a good high school student, and has an all-around passion for theatre…must work in the industry. The end. So, attend a BFA MT program with a good solid core curriculum. Now you can earn a second degree in two more years or so if you choose. Be an music/theatre educator, be a music business professional, be a director…or some other field altogether. (Reiterating… with BFA, a minor is very hard to do…)</p>
<p>I love this quote from above: “My daughter is starting to realize going to a college with different options might be a good idea in case her desires change. She doesn’t see that happening (neither do I), but I applaud the maturity she is showing in thinking in such a manner.”</p>
<p>I don’t believe you are “jinxing” yourself to have realistic expectations…and I also believe your theatre path will lead you down unexpected avenues and your future will become clear as your life unfolds. I was a management major…did I become a manager at a fortune 500 company and have my face on Time Magazine…no way. But I use those skills to be successful in life every day, and it got me started. Same for theatre majors…</p>
<p>*p.s. In recent months, this example is not as wonderful as it used to be…lol!</p>
<p>First, let me second the sentiment that there’s something about high school Junior year… and particularly this month leading up to AP exams! It is truly the crux of HS, and in my experience in spite of college applications Senior year is much easier in many ways.</p>
<p>Second, I’ve recently been a big CC advocate of considering a BA. Our D is a talented and serious MT kid, yet she unexpectedly decided to apply ED to a BA program over all of her BFA alternatives and could not be happier. For her, a balance of artistic and academic challenge was a critical part of what she wanted from her college years, so I think it’s important not to assume that a BA represents any form of cop-out. For some kids it’s not a matter of a back-up plan, but of getting the full education they crave.</p>
<p>So as you make that final list this summer, at least give some BA programs a good hard look before ruling them out.</p>
<p>… oh, and DO breathe!! ;-D</p>
<p>VT, I think your post did NOT mean this, but it CAN be read (by worried students or parents looking for a “safety plan”) to mean that you can pursue all of the jobs you mention and actively pursue MT performance also. I have had 2 voice therapy colleagues email me and ask me to clarify that this is NOT true of medical voice therapy. Voice therapy is a great fit for someone who does not want to actively pursue performance (or did and is ready to move on) but has a passion for the world of theatre and/or music and a great ear!</p>
<p>Let me start by saying that I am incredibly happy in my diverse career: currently coaching MT and working as an SLP-CCC in an NYC voice center, seeing both performers and “regular” voice patients. I have also made a living:
- performing professionally (not a passion of mine)
- directing educational theatre prograns (a stronger passion but not as good a fit for my passions as what I do now)
- teaching full-time in a high school for 7 years - and no, I did NOT teach theatre:) </p>
<p>But getting an SLP is a long and rigorous route:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>undergrad prerequisites including, Anatomy & Phys, Anatomy & Phys of Speech and Hearing, Acoustic (Physics of Sound), Statistics, Neuroscience, and Intro To Communication Sciences and Disorders</p></li>
<li><p>At least 2 years of FULL-TIME (Fall-Spring-Summer-Fall-Spring-Summer) Master’s work, including a minimum of 500 clinical contact hours in varied clinical placement settings. Also, national exams that must be passed with a certain score. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Again, to clarify: there is ABSOLUTELY no way to do MT training or serious auditioning while in your last year of grad school, as you are doing clinical rotations during the day and class at night, for the entire year! </p>
<ol>
<li>A mandatory 9 month supervised job, called your clinical fellow year or CFY, which is required before you achieve your American Speech and Hearing Association Certificate of Clinical Competency (CCC).<br></li>
</ol>
<p>Once you do all of that, finding a job as a voice therapist is not easy, because there are many fewer voice jobs than any other field. It involves working really hard to attend workshops and conferences and meet the top researchers and clinicians in the field, so people know you and know what you have to offer as a clinician in an extremely competitive job market. It is VERY true that singers and actors make GREAT voice therapists, b/c they understand the world of their patients, but you have to put your performing CAREER on hold while you are in school. Once you are out of school, the only way to see patients and actively perform in an 8-show week is to have a private practice, but private practices thrive on referrals, so no one STARTS in a private practice; that happens after people know you as a clinician.</p>
<p>So here’s thing - SLP, music therapist, and full-time classroom teacher (as in Teach For America/get an MA or MS in Education, as VT mentions) - those are CAREERS that can only thrive given time to pursue rigorous advanced degrees. AND they require their own kind of “auditioning” - full-time mandatory supervision under a master teacher followed by building knowledge and a network in that field. In addition, all 3 REQUIRE continuing education (attendance at conferences or at least online courses).</p>
<p>So, they are not “fallbacks”. You can do MT/performance and SLP, but one has to be on hold while you pursue the other. I did NOT do SLP as a fallback, nor did any performer I know who is an SLP - we all worked in performance first, and for various life reasons decided that we wished to pursue SLP. In no cases that I know are voice therapists “failed” performers - they are truly passionate about both, and they pursue those CAREERS one at a time. </p>
<p>Am I am glad that my voice therapy job provides me with stability and excellent medical insurance? YES!!! But if I was primarily or even strongly driven by that, I would never have lasted and probably never been hired in the first place at a voice center. I have to have the highest level of expertise to deal with my Broadway and other professional performer patients, and that requires immersing myself in the medical side of performance. SLP is a complementary CAREER for actors, but it’s not “just a job”- at least voice therapy isn’t. </p>
<p>In case I sound like the black cloud of doom - you don’t have to have all of the life answers now! I started grad school in SLP at the age of 35. My prior experience in MT is what GOT me my first notice in a voice center, when I was just an observing grad student - I was able to talk to patients about the roles the were playing with total expertise, and it was that knowledge combined with my teaching experience that job me my first voice center job for my CFY, an offer I received a full 8 months before I graduated.</p>
<p>Junior year is absolutely the hardest year, academically. </p>
<p>Well, everyone beat me to the wisdom I would have shared - so I’ll just say “yeah, what they said” from the perspective of a mom who adores her kids and wants nothing more for them to be happy, which DOES include a certain level of financial security, too - let me add that the most useless degree is the one they don’t finish.</p>
<p>My first one should have majored in music. He’d have probably gone to his classes and might be something now as lowly as a music teacher <em>cue the condescending sniffs from certain people</em> instead of flunking out because he was pressured into going into engineering which he was probably smart enough for but had no interest in doing and was too immature to handle a FIVE HOUR math course. My husband’s idea of how to pick a career was to google “best paying job” and put him in that one. Son was too passive and immature to say, “hey wait - I don’t actually want to do that.” </p>
<p>(btw that was sarcasm - being a music teacher is a <em>fine</em> thing to be. Just not a WEALTHY thing to be. Which some people object to.)</p>
<p>He fought me tooth and nail on Daughter going into theater - one day he came home from work, hating his job as usual, *****ing about it and suddenly he looked at me and said - “okay, if theater is what she wants to do, let her.”</p>
<p>Our kids may or may not end up on stage in the long run but I do believe if they are motivated and get a good basic liberal arts education that theater provides, they’ll find the path to success as much as anyone else in any field other than, say, nursing, or welding, or some other technical field which has a shortage. I’d rather them be in theater than history, journalism, social work, or any of the “studies” group, for sure.</p>
<p>Our solution was that D is focusing a lot on design and tech - she still will grab any chance to perform, but for kids who love performing, of course, but just want to be in that theater world, tech is a good “backup” and most programs will give them experience in all those areas even with an emphasis on one aspect. Not the same thing as a double major, and not quite as solid of a backup as a double major, but from what I understand talking to friends who work in regional theaters around here, if you can do a bit of everything it makes you in pretty good shape to get a job in theater.</p>
<p>I always figured, before she changed her concentration, that D would only perform a few years before going back and doing tech anyway - I just have the feeling, for her, she’s not going to want to be fighting those ten pounds her whole life. Studying and seeking performance is such an amazing thing to do that it can never be a waste of time - they will either succeed at it, or it will give them a way to succeed at something else.</p>
<p>Look at CoachC and she’s not the only fascinating example. The experiences you have and things you learn and people you meet in theatre will give someone so much material from which to create a fascinating life than sitting in an office somewhere…thank God for office workers who keep the world functioning, but not everyone has to do that to make a living. :)</p>
<p>@snapdragon… Funny you mentioned tech because we were looking at a school that seemed to offer a very broad range of opportunity in learning the “backside” of theatre as well as performing. We will be exploring that option. </p>
<p>We did get a bit of good news today, alothough D doesn’t know yet. D auditioned for our county’s G&T program in MT in February. She made it in! D will now be able to take whatever class she wants for FREE at our arts center and also pursue student internships at a regional theatre level (not performing; mostly being a gopher and watching which I think may prove invaluable). I guess I should have looked into this program before but I haven’t had a good experience with G&T programs in the past. I honestly didn’t know the arts part existed.</p>
<p>Maybe she will come home from school in a better mood today :).</p>
<p>Great news!! ~and not to denigrate office workers either - my best friend’s husband got his master’s degree in theater management and did it very successfully for 20 years. Then home town politics (having nothing to do with his quality or performance, which was superior in all ways) made his job disappear so he went back to school to get his degree in…ACOUNTING of all things, I’d rather be shot, but, he only had to go a year because he already had a good basic liberal arts degree. Now he’s making some pretty serious steady income and keeps winning trips to Europe from being the best in the company and stuff and much of it is because he’s got an edge over the ones who went straight into it right out of school, and surely it’s not necessary to spell it out too much, all the different perspectives and experience he brings to the table from 20 years in the real world of theater - I call it the real world because it’s a microcosm of everything that happens in the real world, whereas some jobs are more narrow in the spectrum. Does that make sense?</p>
<p>Anyway - one more success story that started with theatre. Also they didn’t mind the FUN they had those first 20 years, either. And they have two talented kids, both of whom are going into…science. lol.</p>
<p>This article was recently in the NYTimes. Very intersting, many creative types and what they are doing today.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/nyregion/first-acts-of-new-york-real-estate-brokers.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/nyregion/first-acts-of-new-york-real-estate-brokers.html</a></p>
<p>When parents ask me about a back-up plan I usually say things like, “you tell me another field that will teach students to be self-sufficient, entrepreneurial, the value of hard work, how to communicate, adapt at will and on a dime, learn and memorize quickly, and take criticism daily without blinking an eye.” Those skills will take you anywhere you want to go. </p>
<p>I also found this several moons ago. And I think it’s fantastic. [What</a> Theatre Majors Learn. What can you “do” with a theatre major? Plenty!!](<a href=“http://lecatr.people.wm.edu/majorslearn.html]What”>http://lecatr.people.wm.edu/majorslearn.html)</p>
<p>As usual, Ken sums it up perfectly! That’s what makes him a perfect MT department chair!!</p>
<p>My husband rather grimly repeated some statistics he had heard recently (as if they were news) about the majors least likely to be working in their field and theater was in the top of those.</p>
<p>I take that to mean that if you have a theater degree, you can transfer the learning to a wide range of things - unlike something like, say, welding, which right now has a very high employment rate, but really doesn’t transfer into something else.</p>
<p>Anyway - we all know that math and other STEM majors have the best prospects for a high paying job IN <em>their</em> field. Being as how my daughter couldn’t pass a STEM curriculum even if she wanted to, which I think she would rather sling hash her whole life than try to do, it’s rather a useless and pointless statistic. She isn’t going to be a STEM major and nothing will change that. I’d rather her do theatre than try for a halfhearted, not particularly fabulous job prospect either major such as history or marketing or such. Yes, exceptional people in those fields will do well - exceptional people anywhere will do well, and I think my D is exceptional, and I suspect everyone else feels the same way about their kid, and frankly, if they are a theater kid, they probably are, because theater kids…well, they just are.</p>
<p>My daughter sent me a photo yesterday of a Japanese good luck kitten vase (actually a prototype of hello kitty) which she is turning into a lamp - not with a lamp kit but with all basic individual wiring elements. I am in so much awe of that. </p>
<p>I think the future is going to be bleak for people who are dependent upon a Big Employer to give them a job which takes care of them and all their needs in exchange for them just showing up to work and putting in 40 hours. Those kind of paternal, clement, beneficial big daddy jobs are vanishing, and people who don’t have creative, adaptive, entrepeneurial skills who can create their own opportunities, are going to have a hard time, which isn’t really fair, but I think it’s the way things are going…I think the things they take away from theater will be a real advantage.</p>
<p>So as often happens this time of year, there’s another new “Most Useless Majors” article out there. And of course theatre is on the list:
[The</a> 13 Most Useless Majors, From Philosophy to Journalism - The Daily Beast](<a href=“The 13 Most Useless Majors, From Philosophy to Journalism”>The 13 Most Useless Majors, From Philosophy to Journalism)</p>
<p>But look at the profile:
Drama and Theater Arts
Unemployment, recent grad: 7.8 percent
Unemployment, experienced grad: 8.8 percent
Earnings, recent grad: $26,000
Earnings, experienced grad: $45,000
Projected growth, 2010–2020: +4 percent
Related occupation: Actor
I don’t know about you, but those stats don’t jump out at me and scream useless at all. And as kjgc pointed out, our kids are learning some very useful real world skills. I am thrilled with the artistic and personal growth I have seen in my D over the last 2 years. So I will keep happily paying for her to pursue that very useful degree.</p>
<p>I’m a big believer in supporting a kid’s dreams and choices for a college major. We’ve done it with all five of our Ds. There’s a difference, though, between a so-called useless degree and the likelihood of getting work in that field. The profile details in that link don’t provide enough information to really get a good picture. The unemployment numbers likely mean unemployment in ANY job, not unemployment in a theatre-related job. These numbers are misleading, and are similar to the employment stats that many lower tier law schools publish about their grads.</p>
<p>Prospective theatre majors need to go into this path with eyes wide open about their prospects of earning a sustained living solely through theatre-related jobs. Most are not able to do this, and even those fortunate few who are, often find it a challenging balance longterm. Booking work, getting a tour, finding a subletter, doing a short-term regional show, may sound like fun (and for many it is fun!) when you’re in your twenties. When you get to your mid-thirties, are married, want to have a family, maybe even buy a home, things look a little different. All this is a different issue than what skills theatre majors learn while in college, and which may be applicable to other fields. I agree that the skills that many learn in a theatre major are valuable and will help them in many other fields. I think the larger issue is that most kids are not necessarily thinking that that may be a distinct reality in their futures. :)</p>
<p>alwaysamom - My point is related to the topic of this thread about back-up plans. I understand that the employment data doesn’t show those working “in the field” versus those not.</p>
<p>First, I’ve officially changed my name to “connections” from "hoveringmom.’ I gave myself that name to poke fun at myself a few years back, when I was nervously navigating my D’s application process after my older son’s bad experience. But I don’t think it applies much anymore, although I <em>do</em> hover from time to time! I feel like I’ve made many connections recently, here at CC, in my life, my mind, heart…</p>
<p>Anyway, as to this question: I completely agree that it’s important to have fallback plans, but I strongly feel that a theatre major builds valuable skills that can be applied to many, many jobs, and anyway, it’s valuable in and of itself. </p>
<p>Long term acting in theatre, if you have the fortune to be successful (to be able to support yourself in your work) can indeed be grueling. One very successful regional actress I know, in her 30s, with kids, has recently retired - not for lack of theatre jobs - and is now teaching theatre at an exclusive private high school, and is very happy. To everything there is a season. </p>
<p>Some people like security. They like getting that nursing degree, say, and knowing there will be a job for them and that they will have one their entire lives (although who’s to say in this weird economy?). That is a very reasonable approach. Sometimes I wish my kids were like that. I have a friend whose own kids do exactly what he tells them. He told them to major in nursing and go into nurse anesthesiology, and that’s what they’re doing (two so far). Practical, solid.</p>
<p>However, not everyone is made that way. My own philosophy is that you should pursue your dream, particularly when you’re young. You can go to nursing school - to use that example - in your 30s if you want. I myself was forced back into the job market in my 40s and had to go back to grad school. People do this all the time. Why not pursue the thing you love when you’re young, see what happens? You will not be wasting your time, that’s for sure. There are SO many skills being developed in studying acting.</p>
<p>Our turn…</p>
<p>Just had this same convo with my junior D this evening… “Mom, what if I’m not good enough? If I can’t even get into a good audition school, I might as well not even do theatre because I won’t make it in auditions after I graduate.”</p>
<p>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH</p>
<p>That was in reply to my telling her that we need to develop a well rounded list of schools, including several non-audition programs. She doesn’t even want to consider non-audition schools!!! I’ve told her about all of your posts, including the stories in the background threat for this year’s acceptances.</p>
<p>So then she went on and on for about an hour or so talking about another degree, more solid, and just doing community theatre on the side. She thought about physical therapy, pediatrician (!!!)…then she looked at me and said, but mom, i just can’t picture me doing anything else! </p>
<p>AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH</p>
<p>Of course she did take the AP Calc Exam today, so her brain was drained when we talked. </p>
<p>I honestly don’t know how we are going to make it this next year…</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I especially emphasize the value of keeping some great BA programs on these lists on the off chance that some other kid has the same experience mine did and unexpectedly moves one of those to the top of the list come ED season. ;-D</p>
<p>I can say from experience that some kids who get into virtually every auditioned BFA program in the end decide they prefer a non-auditioned BA for a variety of great reasons. MANY talented MT kids decide they want something other than an MT BFA.</p>
<p>We also know some kids who ended up in top BFA programs after being REJECTED from their top choice school, which was a non-audition BA, so it absolutely goes both ways.</p>
<p>@mom2them. If you ask me (and you didn’t but I’m sharing anyway… :)), the hardest part in this whole quest is coming up with safety school that your student would be OK with which may or may not be non-auditioned programs. NU for example should never be on anyone’s safety list as Momcares will attest. The dream schools are easy. Getting into them may not be easy but dreaming about them only requires you to close your eyes.</p>
<p>So buckle up :)</p>
<p>Filling out college apps is hard enough. In MT land, you also deal with auditions. I’ve read many a post that described the audition trips as bonding experiences. I guess I can say “sort of” but to be honest, there were not too many rainbows and unicorns on our journey. How much bonding can you do when you are nervous? Or trying to find your way in a snowstorm to the audition? Or think that the audition you just did at your dream school didn’t go well and all you want to do is go home and cry but home is 2000 miles away and meanwhile what you really don’t want to do is provide any details whatsoever to the parent who is with you because you are processing. All the while the phone is ringing and the texts are flying because the other parent back home who is equally vested is waiting to hear… something… just a nugget and the silence is killing them. Not a lot of unicorns in rainbows in that.</p>
<p>My daughter also took the AP Calc exam today so I feel your pain… and mine is a senior and really doesn’t care anything about the result. AAAAHHHHH is right. You will be fine. Welcome to the club.</p>