As to fraternities at UCLA during the 80s, all I can say there was was very few people of color and it was, possibly their heyday as group. As I was a scholarship athlete there was no real need to join for the social aspects, as it would have been almost redundant. And they partied hard, as did most of us…
But, as UCLA grew in academic reputation, I know it had a converse effect on the Greek system, and I remembered reading, they had shrunk by 30-40 percent by the mid 90s. I will say, I see far more Asian females in sororities, in the west at least, than I could ever imagine…so, appreciable progress has been seen in that front.
All, my daughter dragged me into the Gant store, and wanted me to get something’s, but first, much of their gear is tailored for a rather slim work, not simpatico for a 240 pound frame, and a person who likes nachos. Well, we finally found some that fit, think xl and xxl, went to register and poof, these"casual shirts" were 175 a pop.
If you do not object to the clothing, hair, makeup or mannerisms of the UA Alpha Phis, what is it that you felt “objectified” them in the video? I’m not sure I even know what that word means anymore so perhaps you could explain that as well.
What about black students and black sorority members at UCLA? I know there are very few students as compared to CA’s black population. Do you think this is indicative of racism? I’m just trying to understand your definition of “acceptable” representations in sororities. Do you think think they must reflect the student body as a whole? Or the state population as a whole? Because you brought up the black population of AL in your post as a comparison to what is happening in sororities. How do you see that as relevant?
Well, relative to the state population, it becomes an issue, on a couple of fronts. Alabama has a sizable black population, one of the highest, percentage wise, in the nation. On a similar front, it also has one of the largest college Greek systems in the nation. While I realize the numbers are not going to reflect a percentage to percentage mirror, to have a single black person in 50 years is astronomically insulting. This is not Maine or Montana, with a low single digit populations of AA people, so that is troubling. For me, and people can come to their own opinions, but it exhibits an incredible conscription to prevent blacks from joining said groups, i.e., big black population coupled with large Greek presence should result in something better than one person in fifty years.
I thought the video concentrated on these young women as sex objects. I thought that overpowered the girly, fun message. That was my personal reaction. It was not how I expected to respond to the video when I clicked on it. I don’t believe I’m the only one responding in that way. It was not my reaction to all the sorority recruitment videos I have watched this last week. Perhaps this is the only one that struck me that way.
Alright. I didn’t perceive the video that way, but it’s different for everyone. I guess I’m not offended by a woman choosing to portray herself as wanting or good for sex, anyway.
I am absolutely fine with any individual woman portraying herself however she chooses. If this sorority made a conscious decision to produce what someone upthread (Hunt?) called a “girls gone sorta wild” video, that is fine with me. However, I think that would be a video aimed at potential sex partners, not potential sisters. jmho.
One problem for me, as I keep thinking about the video, is that I don’t know who had agency here and maybe that matters. Is the message I am seeing deliberate? Some of that discussion is going on in the media. I am reading along.
The state of Alabama could have a 50% or 75% black population, but what matters is that the University of Alabama only has an 11 or 12% black population. The sororities can’t draw from the general population, only the school population, and even then only the female population who are traditional students. So you are looking for black, single, 18 year old freshmen who had at least a 3.0 gpa in high school. Oh, and they have to be interested in pledging and have about $3000 extra each semester.
If you look at the videos of the girls running from the stadium to their houses on bid day, there is a mix of hair color, body types, weights. Most are wearing t-shirts, shorts, and sneakers. They are not all clones of the women on the videos, just like not everyone who shops at the Gap looks like the models.
So, about 36000, undergrads, of which about 4000 are AA, so about 2000 female AAs. Of that total they managed one black female in the prior fifty years??? You’re kidding me right! You’re not trying rationalize that number, are you?
Even taking the strides of the last two years, their black female AA number is at 1%. I’m not sure where you are from, but we call that falling on your face—and that’s the real polite term.
493 - "I would agree with your last post if it were established that the Alabama Alphi Phi house has no minority members; that minority women wanted to join the house and were denied due to their race. We don't know whether they conducted outreach or extended invitations to any or all of the black women who rushed. Perhaps the black women did not like them."
Bay - I am confused. Is it that you haven’t read the article, or you have read it and don’t believe it is on target?
^^I do think they need to do better, but they now are pledging almost all the black women who want to be asked, 25 out of 28. The number is not 2000 AA females in the freshmen class, more like 4000 freshman undergrad women total, 500 or so of them black women. Some of those may not be qualified (gpa, married, other issues). You also have about 50-75 black women pledging in the all black sororities. That’s their choice but then they aren’t available to join the other houses. Do you really think the sororities in Alabama were going to invite the one black women enrolled in 1963? In 1974 the blacks started their own houses. You’d have to know how many from 1963 to 2013 were ever interested in joining to know if “1 in 50 years” is horrible. Were there women who wanted to go through Rush but didn’t before 2013? How many? 10? 25? Yes, they should have been included.
The sororities, like country clubs, don’t have to change anything about the structure of the organization. They don’t have to change the dues, or the requirements for signing up for rush and attending the week before school starts. They don’t have to change their dress. Condi Rice got to join Augusta, but she had to pay the fees and follow the dress code.
I think groups are better when they include people from all races, religions, regions of the country. I think fraternities and sororities are better when the members are involved in all kinds of campus activities and majors. We didn’t have much racial diversity (nor did the university) but we did have economic diversity, from very poor to 1%ers. Several different religions. We had quite a few women engineers, probably a greater percentage in our house than in the school of engineering at the time.
But you have never answered the question, boolaHi, what do you want them to do? They can’t change that there was only 1 black member in 100 years, or 50 years, or even 10 years. They have changed the number for the last 3 years, adding 13, then 21, now 25 black members, and several hundred from other minority groups. What do you want them to do?
Sorry, sororities are not country clubs, and the legal insulation that a place like Augusta Country Club is afforded (while still repugnant in my view) does not extend to a sorority. As a previous poster previously stated, given its place within a state university a host of educational laws it has to make adherence.
The question, Boolai, is what do you want an individual girl to do at this point, assuming that they aren’t actively discouraging black girls from rushing or denying qualified black pledges?
It would be nice if the sorority made some effort to implement a financial aid system, if they don’t already, so that finances wouldn’t be as much of a barrier. It would also be nice to do some recruitment - although I suspect it wouldn’t make much difference, and would come off as awkward and forced to boot. But if the reason for the lack of diversity is that black women are either flocking to historically black sororities or less inclined to join a sorority at all (and not just because of perceived racism), I don’t see that Alpha Phi has a moral obligation to disband.
The Victorian Literature conferences I go have very, very, few black or Hispanic attendees. There are a number of likely reasons for this, among them being economic privilege - while one by no means has to be rich to do a PhD in the humanities, it helps a LOT if you have at least a modest financial safety net. This is a problem, and there isn’t an easy answer. In the meantime, am I obligated to withdraw from the field?
And yes, I know Alabama sororities have a recent history of overt racism that far exceeds the equivalent problems in English literature. However, I still don’t think an individual girl shouldn’t join an organization she wants to and can afford to join because some girls she doesn’t know that may or may not have been members of her sorority discriminated a few rush cycles ago. If there is current discrimination, that’s another issue, but we don’t know that.
Sororities at UCLA are not exactly shining examples of racial integration, since it appears that many are “racial / ethnic interest”, some historically white sororities like ΑΦ often appear to have very few non-white members, and a few which are multicultural have to advertise themselves as such.
A multicultural sorority is one that was specifically founded as being focused on multiculturalism, cultural awareness, etc. Both NPC (historically white) and NPHC (historically black) sororities now have members of all races, faiths, etc,as do most other sororities, whether founded as multicultural, Latina, Asian-interest, etc., although some chapters and campuses are more diverse and integrated than others. This has historically been an issue in Greek life and it still is in many places, but it is improving. Like I said, my NPC sorority chapter was diverse in multiple ways (race, sexual orientation, disability), and I took pride in that fact. It’s also worth noting that the structure, traditions, expectations, and activities of an NPHC organization, an NPC organization, etc., are going to differ quite a bit by council, and some women may seek out or not seek out certain organization based on what they want from their sorority on a day-to-day basis. Although I had a really positive sorority experience in an NPC sorority and loved my chapter, had I gone to campus with NPHC or multicultural organizations, I think that I might have been more drawn to that style of Greek life , although never having seen it first hand, I can’t say for sure.