It seems to me you thought these girls were trifling, shallow white bimbos. If that’s the case, not sure why it matters if there were trifling, shallow, black bimbos in amongst them.
“Other than due to jealousy, I don’t understand why people assume pretty girls in cute clothes and make up have nothing else important going on in their lives.”
Into all our lives rain must fall and I’m willing to bet some of these girls are truly there for their sisters in times of need - and, no, not just “does anyone have a curling iron, mine just broke.” I wouldn’t underestimate the power of friendship.
I wonder what the reaction would be if a “hot” black sorority posted a similar video.
I can’t really figure out if people are upset because this video DOES accurately depict what this sorority is like, or because it DOESN’T.
Also, it’s just possible that some people are objecting to it for different reasons–some may just think it’s kind of trashy, while others may think it’s problematic because of the lack of diversity.
My last comment is that if I looked at a video for a bodybuilding club, I would expect to see shots of bodybuilders flexing. How is this different?
I would say it isn’t different. Every thinking person knows that bodybuilders have lives outside of bodybuilding, that may even include membership in a diversity club or civil rights campaign.
Again, and I am not sure, how to explain this in another way without bordering on the pedantic—but, do you think people we actually fighting for the right to sit in the front of the bus with Ms. Rosa Parks–obviously no. Rather, the fundamental right of fairness and equality is at the core of the complaint. What the outward pursuit looks like in terms of the activity is subordinated to the actual wrong. And in the specific case of Alabama and its storied history with blacks, well that only ups the ante for inspection and critical purview of those institutions.
One must keep in mind, that recent history has this same group of sororities being formally chided by the highest leadership at the university. In short, segregation and discrimination is illegal in fraternities and sororities, but it’s far from nonexistent. The school was put on the hot seat in 2013 when the university’s newspaper brought to national attention that Ms. Cobb, an all-around perfect potential new member – minus the fact that she was black – didn’t receive a single bid from any of the 16 sororities on campus. In it’s entire history, the universities’s sororities had only previously admitted a single black member. A single one…huh?
So, I don’t give two hoots about sororities in general, (much in the same vein that I detest riding the bus–big folks are not simpatico for bus riding) but if it has a whisper of historical and systemic discrimination, then, well, I am on it…
I really don’t know much about sororities. One of my sisters was in one, the other wasn’t. A few of my friends’ children have been in sororities. One daughter of a friend, a pretty, affluent blonde like the women in that video, was a member of a sorority full of pretty, affluent blondes at her state flagship. Her father, a tax lawyer, was indicted for conspiracy to commit tax fraud based on advice he had given one client. The daughter – who of course, as a college sophomore, had little to do with tax law – was kicked out of her sorority within weeks. Talk about being there for a sister in times of need! The bottom dropped out of her home life, and her sisters almost literally kicked her to the curb.
The whole experience came out for the best. She had been more or less majoring in sorority; she took that energy and applied it more to academics and career skills. She found new friends who were a lot less status conscious. She matured a lot that semester. She, her father, and her family came through the whole crisis fine, and their lives are good ones now.
I recognize that this is one young woman at one chapter of one sorority on one campus, and it happened about 13 years ago. But it really makes me roll my eyes about the sisterhood of all these alpha girls.
@alh “The sorority threads are always entertaining to me. My repeated proposal of lottery rush takes care of lack of diversity.”
If the lottery was done at Alabama, each house would have 1-2 black students and maybe 10 other self identified minority students (who many not look like a minority). In a house of 350, there might be 40 minority members. I do not think a lottery system would be successful in making social connections.
Wow, one anecdote from 13 years ago makes the whole thing a farce, huh?
I don’t think this is true as a general rule, in light of the First Amendment. But it may be at the U of Alabama, and perhaps that is what you were referring to.
I suspect that all major Greek organizations now have national rules prohibiting racial discrimination. But changing rules are not the primary solution to this particular problem.
Hunt: How do you define the problem? What is the particular problem here?
The problem I was referring to in my last post was the lack of diversity in some kinds of campus organizations. It’s hard to bring about change by simply telling people not to discriminate. They have to want to change.
The problem of apparent trashiness is not a problem I care about very much. (After looking at the video again, I think the primary impression is not so much trashiness as vapidity.)
boolaHI - Couldn’t agree more, except that mentioning the word “whisper” in the context of the systemic discrimination at issue in this case is being far too kind. Really, the leadership of the Greek system here and of the University of Alabama (which officially recognizes these organizations) has completely failed on this issue. They should be ashamed of themselves since it doesn’t seem like they’re even trying. Frankly, I’m surprised that this is even controversial in this thread.
Other than that major problem though, I don’t see what else the controversy is about. I don’t think they’re showing more skin than most college women do when the weather is warm - perhaps their outfits are nicer than what I typically see, and certainly the time devoted to the bikini shots was over the top. I admit that to me the video does seem quite superficial - would it have killed them to devote a token 10 seconds to the academic and service accomplishments of their members? But who cares - I guess that’s what appeals to the type of 19 year old college girls they want as PNMs.
Party on sistas! If I didn’t know any better I’d think I was watching a Club Med commercial.
Does anyone expect Alabama to be taken seriously as a school after this?
I can imagine what the Europeans must be thinking.
While the Alabama sororities had the “smoking gun” of meddling racist alumni vetoing potential new members because they were non-white, the problem of highly racially segregated sororities (and fraternities to a slightly lesser extent) is far more widespread (and not just in the south), based on chapter photo albums. Even with the meddling racist alumni pushed out of the pledge process (after that was revealed), the Alabama sororities still appear to be highly racially segregated, similar to other campuses where there may not be any obvious “smoking guns”. I.e. the problem is much deeper and more widespread than people here seem to think it is.
If I was the chapter President, I would have wanted this included. It could be that the GPA and philanthropy information for each house is published and easily available, so the videos are intended only to attempt to show the fun, sisterhood aspect that cannot be easily captured in print.
Yes, cmsjmt, Alabama may still be taken seriously. A sorority video does not define a school that is a well respected state flagship with many distinguished alumni/a. It does not define a school that has made a concentrated effort to attract some of the brightest students in the country by way of full tuition merit scholarships for NMFists. There might be a few more layers to the school than what’s been shown here. And, pray tell, what do you imagine the Euros are thinking? Is the home of Silvio Berlusconi and the page 2 girl aghast at superficial nature of this video or are they upset that the girls had tops on at all?
Alas, if Europeans were watching (and I don’t suspect that this hold much interest) it only reinforces some of the attributes that are most prominent in the European psyche, that is to say, Americans are friendly, social, but also sort of mindless and as Hunt aptly places it, vapid.
146 [quote] I do not think a lottery system would be successful in making social connections.
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For me, that is one of the advantages of the lottery system. If the goal is fun and sisterhood, and we are generally accepting, we should be happy in a diverse group. Diverse in terms of race, SES, hair color, interests, etc. On the other hand, if it is necessary to associate with those like ourselves to have fun, it won’t be successful.
Spreading out the alpha girls throughout sororities seems a good thing to me. Some of us here read “Paying for the Party” on a recent thread, and the alphas there were pretty destructive to the well being of fellow students.
Anyone who concludes from that video that these women are vapid is sexist.
Why, Bay? I think men behaving the same way would also be vapid.