Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother - new book about Chinese parenting

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<p>Well said.</p>

<p>@lateparty: Perhaps, but at the same time I, as an Asian, find your comment that Asian “children (coached/prepped/finance to the hilt) are Group Projects rather than self-directed individuals earning their own accomplishments” equally “insulting/offensive and inaccurate”, same with your implication that their music shows “woodenness and technical accuracy without feeling”. </p>

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<p>LOL, you may be surprised by how often Americans consciously or even subconsciously project this kind of sentiment when in another country…</p>

<p>There is a difference between concepts like learning and achievement and grades. That is, it is very possible for a young person to have fully mastered the concepts required to solve all the math problems on a given exam, but still turn in less-than-perfect exams. We don’t want our kids to be slackers, either – but grades don’t always tell the whole story. There are kids who are getting A’s but don’t have a clue about the content of their classes, because the teacher grades on a generous curve, or allows the kids to submit unrelated extra credit assignments to make up for poor exam grades, or because the kids are good at memorizing what is required for an exam but promptly forget the material as soon as the exam is over, and have no ability to contextualize or apply their learning to other contexts.</p>

<p>Similarly, there are kids who are getting B’s and C’s who have learned a lot, but perhaps they deliberately chose to challenge themselves in a particularly demanding course, or they have a teacher who grades on a very tough course – or they have mastered the content but are bored and don’t do everything required by the teacher for the grade (such as kids who get 100% on all their math exams, but don’t turn in all of their homework).</p>

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<p>Indeed. It was quite an eye-opening experience to not only witness several examples of Americans actually doing this when traveling abroad in China, but also to overhear how annoying the same sort of spoiled-brat American superiority attitude from many fellow American university students…including many fellow* American-born Chinese-Americans was to the Chinese students acting as our summer hosts.</p>

<p>It helped that my Mandarin verbal proficiency was such that I had no problems joining in their conversations as a regular participant and that after the first two days, the Chinese students were so acclimated to my presence in the group that they often forgot I was also one of those American university students. </p>

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<li>Blecchh!! Not fellows with their attitudes and behavior.</li>
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<p>Can’t have it both ways, though. Can’t have the parent decide what activities are worthwhile / acceptable, enforce hours and hours of practicing to the exclusion of other activities, and then not claim it’s a group project. </p>

<p>An individual project would be the kid who, when given the opportunity for piano lessons, practices of his own accord, fools around with the piano OUTSIDE of practicing, asks his parents for advanced lessons, etc. A group project is what Ms. Chua laid out - her kid had no choice but to sit at the piano for hours. </p>

<p>And again, what? How is art - of all things - meaningful if it’s forced on someone?</p>

<p>To some extent, most of the things kids do are group projects rather than individual ones.</p>

<p>Many children want to learn to play the piano but resent the need for practice. It is not uncommon for parents to tell their children that they will only continue to pay for lessons if the child practices for the amount of time recommended by the piano teacher. Is this a group project or an individual one? I think it’s a bit of both.</p>

<p>Please, let’s not compare the typical “you need to practice for 1/2 hour a day” scenario (which I myself did when my kids were younger and took piano) with the type of demands Ms Chua made on her daughter. There is a distinct difference between teaching the concept that it’s important to try new things, and elevating some stupid donkey piano piece into the be-all-and-end-all, more important than sleep, eating and access to the bathroom, more important than relationships and people.</p>

<p>Quote:
And I would not tell PF Chang is a great Chinese restaurant.
This attack on a fine restaurant chain was totally uncalled for! </p>

<h2>I really like their Singapore Street noodles!</h2>

<p>Not to be offensive but I really have to say this. I went to PF Chang’s once (no idea why I did) and I ordered the Singapore Street Noodles and they were disgusting. The food is awful and unauthentic. And way overpriced.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t have posted but those specific noodles were mentioned.</p>

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<p>Did you know that your child can become very proficient at playing an instrument without ever being required to practice between lessons? Most parents don’t know this, but I do, because I got so sick of nagging that with my 3rd kid I announced that I would never be saying anything about practicing as long as he attended his lesson. He is actually very good now. :)</p>

<p>Also some of the things Chua may have said to her child, such as setting her stuffed toys on fire if they didn’t play better piano, may not be as harsh as some here find. It would depend on whether she said it in Chinese or English. In English it would sound very extreme, but in Chinese it’s not as serious. In Chinese it is understood not to be literal whatsoever. </p>

<p>Perhaps all the extremeness we’ve been hearing is just to advertise the book. A lot of these comments you are making may seem like intense attacks on Chua after you’ve read the book.</p>

<p>Also a lot of the comments here are beginning to get on the racist-side btw.</p>

<p>agreein’ with ya, ali-- pf chang’s is horrendous. i should’ve known better than to ever even try them.</p>

<p>i think (hope) that that person who called them “a fine restaurant chain” wasn’t being serious though. LOLOL!!!</p>

<p>Also some of the things Chua may have said to her child, such as setting her stuffed toys on fire if they didn’t play better piano, may not be as harsh as some here find. It would depend on whether she said it in Chinese or English. In English it would sound very extreme, but in Chinese it’s not as serious. In Chinese it is understood not to be literal whatsoever. </p>

<p>Perhaps all the extremeness we’ve been hearing is just to advertise the book. A lot of these comments you are making may seem like intense attacks on Chua after you’ve read the book.</p>

<p>Also a lot of the comments here are beginning to get on the racist-side btw.</p>

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<p>I had dinner at PF Chang’s tonight. I enjoyed it.</p>

<p>I like what one of my daughter’s Chinese friends says about Chinese-American restaurants: The food served there is very different from real Chinese cooking, but it’s good in its own way.</p>

<p>I think what´s offensive to me about this thread and the book is people would continue to make generalization about a group of people based on very limited knowledge (even Ms. Chua cannot claim that her parenting is representative of ALL Chinese parenting). What is even more offensive is it is fine and dandy to make those remarks about Asians, but would NEVER be acceptable to make similar remarks about blacks, Jews or any other race.</p>

<p>Not every thread “Is my chance of getting into an Ivy ruined because of one B”, “What kind of EC do I need to get into an Ivy,” “Which Ivy is more prestigious,” “My parents won´t let me major or go to a school I want,” “How to convince my parents to let me live on campus,” is started by a Chinese kid.</p>

<p>Finally, Chinese kids are not the only ones committing suicide (due to parental pressure), just like Cornell doesn´t have the highest suicide rate.</p>

<p>Late to the thread here. I have to say, I’m wondering why the WSJ found this to be newsworthy. This is a biased and discriminatory article, in my opinion. I can’t believe they published it.</p>

<p>I think the Wall Street Journal’s decision to headline the excerpt from Chua’s book “Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior” has tended to encourage racist reactions.</p>

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<p>That’s very interesting! (seriously)</p>

<p>I say stuff like that all the time to my kids (“I’ll kill you if you don’t do well on that test after all the studying you’ve done!”), and they know I am not serious because it is so obvious. It is simply a way to communicate, in adolescent (their) terms, how important I think something is and how much I care about it and them. It is actually intended to convey endearment and love, believe it or not. They laugh at it a lot of the time.</p>

<p>Heck, I guess there are a lot of sayings in Yiddish that could sound abusive!!</p>

<p>But it goes to the context in which it is said. It’s one thing to make a humorous, outrageous threat in relation to reasonable demands on your kids (example: “If you don’t brush your teeth, I’ll cut off your head and feed it to the dog!”) it’s quite another to be forcing a kid to spend hours on end at the piano to please the parent.</p>

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<p>I agree, and that’s what I dislike about the marketing of this book (much of which isn’t Amy Chua’s fault alone). Encouraging people to make harsh judgments on the parenting practices of a minority race and culture based on limited and biased-for-marketing information can indeed be a slippery slope to racism. At the very least, it does let in some self-righteous smugness that, in the context of the race/culture divide, is uncomfortable to read.</p>

<p>“Chinese” parenting, especially Chinese parenting in the context of immigration and culture clash, should be examined and criticized-- but in a discussion among actual Chinese people, preferably those from different generations who have different perspectives. Not that other interested people shouldn’t be allowed to discuss it, but non-Chinese people’s repeated expression of righteous anger and outrage is inappropriate. Please be respectful.</p>