<p>Im not a lawyer or anything, but does anyone besides me find it suspicious that Chua (who is a law expert) would write a book that talks about incidents with her children that could be construed as borderline abusive (i.e. not allowing them to eat, drink, or urinate for hours when practicing piano and/or yelling bad names at them when they do something wrong or throwing back a birthday card). I know they aren’t exactly abusive things but I still wonder what the benefit is of writing about those incidents. She could have gotten her strict parenting point across just as well without them. I know this book is technically a non-fiction personal story book but I read somewhere (and please correct me if Im wrong) that some non-fiction books have added fiction that the publisher only knows is not true. Do you think its possible that the reason some of Chua’s parenting techniques are so controversial is because they aren’t even used by her?</p>
<p>Why don’t you just READ THE BOOK?</p>
<p>Don’t look at me - I did, LOL. In an evening. Quick read. On my iPad.</p>
<p>Yeah, it doesn’t take more than an evening; two evenings at most.</p>
<p>I bought it yesterday and finished at night. Not the best written book but it was pretty interesting.</p>
<p>Seems like one of those pageant moms, or moms and dads who put so much pressure on their kids for sports hoping they’ll get athletic scholarships, although the kids are miserable. </p>
<p>But it seems the two daughters love their instruments … they just want to love it on their own terms. By age 17 it appears Amy Chua steps away because her daughters have already gone beyond her level and expertise and she has to give them their freedom. But because of her work as a mother they are highly talented, successful at school, and very capable and strong people.</p>
<p>There are very few people who could score high on SAT without some sort of practice or tutoring. D2 is an avid reader and a greater writer, but she´s had to be taught on how to take those tests. I personally do not think it is necessary for people to have to score above 700 in order to be successful at those top tier schools, but that´s what those schools dictate, so D2 is studying like crazy right now for her Jan test. </p>
<p>Few years ago when we were visiting colleges with D1, at the Princeton´s tour presentation, the adcom said, “We look for students with special talent, leadership positon, interesting ECs, but if you have 2400/4.0 then we would over look a lot of other things.” So if you were to look at earlier Asian population, most of them were smaller in size (couldn´t compete as well in sports), probably not as popular in school (due to some sort of discrimination, so no leadership), therefore the only place they could compete was in the academic (it is black and white in terms of GPA). </p>
<p>Pizzagirl´s question about if Asians immigrants listen to what´s important in getting into colleges now? The answer is absolutely yes. They are very adaptable. I read Chinese papers, and they often write articles about how Chinese need to change their ways in raising their kids. The next generation of Asians are bigger (all that milk and protein), the Asian kids have picked up that American swag, they are more affluent to afford those expensive ECs. My good friend´s son (Chinese) was just recruited by a Div I swim team. Our state´s top swimmer 4 years ago was also a Chinese. My own nephew is his school´s varsity soccer goalie (featured in the local paper).</p>
<p>One thing that has not changed is the immigrant mentality - always need to work harder than other people in order to survive. As I am raising next generation in this country, I hope my kids never lose that drive which brought my father to this country.</p>
<p>^ Sure, because if the Chinese kids didn’t get selected for leadership positions, that would most likely have been because of American discrimination, right? It couldn’t possibly have been because the student was made to stay at home all the time studying and practicing his instrument, and thus hadn’t developed enough social ties to be elected by his peers?</p>
<p>Americans have shown themselves to be extremely hospitable towards and remarkably accepting of immigrants–arguably more than any other country on earth. But it is only natural that groups who learn our language and customs, and otherwise adapt themselves to our society will feel more of that acceptance. I’m not sure that “swag” is included among our customs.</p>
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<p>There is actually quite a bit of research on this, actually. On average, the kids of immigrants do very well (better than their parents), but the next generation does not do as well as their parents. I think the immigrant mentality disappears, which might be drive, but is more likely comfort with not going into one of a few safe occupational groups.</p>
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<p>Pageant mom is a good analogy. In reading the book, I had the same visceral discomfort that I do if I turn on Toddlers and Tiaras and see some mother forcing mascara, foundation, and a cloud of hairspray on a 7 year old who clearly would rather just go out and climb trees. The fact that learning to play the violin / piano is intrinsically more worthwhile than learning how to prance on a stage to be judged on your looks doesn’t change the discomfort I feel as an observer. Some goals aren’t worth it. </p>
<p>And I don’t think that admission to an uber-school is worth it. Not in America, where it’s the person rather the school that determines success in life.</p>
<p>One thing missing in any discussion like this is the extent to which religious beliefs factor into values. As far as I can tell, most Chinese have no religion per se. Thankfully the Christian church is growing phenomenally in China today. Absent the teachings of Christ where, among other things, humility and servanthood are valued about putting oneself first, achievement-based values constitutes “ultimate concern”(religion.)</p>
<p>The Chinese parenting model does not seem to take into account anything approaching a religious value system.</p>
<p>“The Chinese parenting model does not seem to take into account anything approaching a religious value system.”</p>
<p>It looks very different from Christian values, but Confucian piety (placing the family’s needs before those of the individual; respect and obedience owed to parents; hard work to bring pride to the family) is very much a religious value system. Chua may not have her kids bowing at their ancestors’ graves, but she comes right out of that tradition.</p>
<p>Agreed with Hanna.</p>
<p>However, a big percentage of Asian Americans are very devout Christians. Just go to any city where it has a big Asian population and you can see lots of churches.</p>
<p>@ Bay:</p>
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<p>I agree with that. I think people unfairly blame communism for some things that are really just human.</p>
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<p>He probably wasn’t, at least not entirely, but writing satire is, in my opinion, a forgivable offense.</p>
<p>Amy Chua is marketing this book as a memoir and has never suggested that, though tongue-in-cheek, she was telling anything less than the truth.</p>
<p>@joanybologna</p>
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<p>Your parents totally lied to you.</p>
<p>It is COMPLETELY possible to be successful, secure and happy without doing anything close to what Chua describes in the book and in interviews.</p>
<p>You can:</p>
<p>-never play an instrument
-graduate high school, community college and uni with mediocre grades, all at public school
-never pull an all-nighter
-have tons of fun</p>
<p>… and still be an amazingly productive member of society with lots of friends, fun hobbies, and a job that supports you and your family.</p>
<p>Really. It is. I did it. 
And so did most of my friends… and we don’t even work in the private sector, though some do. Unless, of course, your idea of “happy” is having the “right” degree and the “right” kind of boat and the “right” neighborhood and the “right” kind of friends so your kids can have the “right” degree and the “right” kind of boat and…</p>
<p>You know what? We actually go camping around Europe on our vacations and go to museums on the free days, we listen to classical music (and rock, OMG, must not be “successful”) in the park, pay all our bills on time and have no debt, and both my husband and I went to local schools and did just a bit better than average.</p>
<p>Don’t believe the lie, that you have to live in the upper-middle to rich classes to be happy. Lots of people are happy and accomplished. I accomplished a lot… at work. When I cared. I got promoted. I’ve managed people from Harvard, Yale <em>and</em> Princeton, and I can tell you, they were pretty okay. Better than average but I sure as heck they don’t have debt or psychological scars, because if they do, it so wasn’t worth it!</p>
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Ayelet Waldman’s kids look perfectly normal to me–the son is rocking a quasi-Justin Bieber look. But hey, siliconvalleymom, it’s good to know you’ve figured out an ironclad way to assess mothering skills!</p>
<p>Meanwhile:
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<p>Note the lack of any reference to hair length.</p>
<p>" However, a big percentage of Asian Americans are very devout Christians. Just go to any city where it has a big Asian population and you can see lots of churches. "</p>
<p>There is an interesting sidelight to this discussion. In NYC there is a big presbyterian church that has become a kind of magnet church, a rarity for NYC. The pastor is quite well known, had a large writeup in the Times Sunday magazine and such. The congregation has a variety of people in it, but also has a large population of young people of Asian background, much more then their percentage of the population. According to people associated with the church, including members interviewed, the church preaches a very strong message that there is more to life then ‘success’, that we are meant for higher things and so forth, shouldn’t be so surprising given what Christian teaching has been (though these days, with the Jesus wants you to be a billionaire and some of the churches going out of their way to promote wealth as a gospel and businesses as ‘working for God’, I wonder what Bible they have been reading). In any event, the church apparently resonates with these young Asian adults because for the first time in their lives, they are being told that success isn’t everything, that they don’t have to have this incredible burden of ‘being successful’ to please the family or to put up a front or achieve beyond the bounds at everything, that there is more to life then this and it resounds with them apparently. The article said that another thing that appealed was the church telling them that when looking at others, that these are fellow human beings and that it may not always be a good thing to look at them as competitors to be ‘beaten’ in the goal to be #1, but rather as fellow children of God. Whatever this church is or isn’t, the fact that basic things like that could be appealing tells a lot with what they probably have grown up with.</p>
<p>I think that another, contrasting book that I would highly recommend is “Nurtured by Love” by Shinichi Suzuki. Any posters who have had kids study the Suzuki method for musical instruments may have been encouraged by teachers to read this book. It is a sweet history of Suzuki’s life, his theories on music education and on music as an aspect of self development. I learned so much about parenting from reading this book and from our Suzuki piano teacher (“our” because she was my teacher too). And, she never even had kids of her own!
It is surprising that Ms. Chua’s kids started out with the Suzuki method because, as an earlier poster pointed out, there is no place in this method for threats or coercion. There is a place for encouraging hard work and perseverance through positive reinforcement.
As an example, our teacher never corrected mistakes right away, and did not even say that something was being played in the wrong way. She would simply say, “Now let’s try it like this” and show the right way to play. Or - she would pick out what was right and ask for more of it. This principle worked for me in their piano practice sessions - but even more importantly, it worked in so many other aspects of life.</p>
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<p>Chua should own border collies:<a href=“Dog Might Provide Clues on How Language Is Acquired - The New York Times”>Dog Might Provide Clues on How Language Is Acquired - The New York Times;
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<p>TheGFG - I would like to ask you how many countries have you travled to? How many countries have you lived outside of US? Have your children ever moved from one school to another(even within the same town)? What kind of adjustment would it be for your and for your children? Do you think your children would be leader of the pack in a brand new environment where they don´t speak the language? Or do you think they may hate you for moving them out of their comfort zone? What about if your kids were to look different from the norm? What about if they were at an age (like middle school) when kids were just really mean and would make fun of anyone who looked different?</p>
<p>Before you start waving the red, white and blue hospitality flag, at least try to walk in someone else shoes.</p>