<p>I guess it depends whether you see this type of parenting on a daily basis. I see it daily, with the end goal being perfect conformity and submission. Chua wants perfect achievement in other areas (academics). To me, no matter what your goal (my own, which is to raise a conscientious citizen, with academics and awareness somewhere not far behind), there is no good reason to employ the techniques she used.</p>
<p>Her high expectations, I can see. The instrument choices? Stereotypical, but okay, that could be funny. The sleepover issue? I know lots of white people that believe sleepovers are the best place for sexual abuse and forbid them, and yet laugh at themselves for being paranoid. Hah hah.</p>
<p>But calling your child garbage? How could that possibly be funny? And it’s that motif that comes up again and again in every quote, and it’s that which people object to.</p>
<p>Iglooo, I am all for having young people aim for the top–all the way up to Olympiad gold medals, Intel or Siemens winners, and any other level of distinction available to young people. Nor would I advise anyone against competing, for fear of being disappointed.</p>
<p>What I oppose is the dictum that a student <em>must</em> be the top (in everything except gym and drama). That does not foster healthy competition, it leads to neurosis. I’d encourage a student to pour everything he/she wanted to pour into a pursuit, academic or extracurricular. I’d also favor kind encouragement for the student to dig a little deeper or work a little harder. I think Yoda gave great advice to Luke, “Do or do not. There is no try.” But I can’t see telling someone that it’s a disgrace to come in second.</p>
<p>As a college senior, I was fortunate to have a department chairman who encouraged me, and remarked one time that there was nothing wrong with coming in second to someone who was really, really good.</p>
<p>And there is nothing wrong with disappointment, per se. I think polarscribe has given a truly beautiful example of disappointment at not meeting a very high goal, followed by the adviser’s help in gaining perspective on the situation, followed by resounding success of polarscribe’s successors, due in large part to polarscribe’s leadership.</p>
<p>It’s really helpful if an adviser or parent can help the student gain perspective. It’s rough to see a student remaining disappointed over a silver medal at the national or international level, rather than bouncing back from momentary disappointment and being happy about something that is truly an achievement and honor. </p>
<p>I’ve <em>won</em> quite a few things over time. However, one of my happiest occasions was a time I came in fourth in a local competition–my highest place in 3 years of entering. I won it, in the year after that. Honestly, 4th place was sweeter in a way, because it was unexpected. I am really, really glad that my parents didn’t dump on me about only coming in 4th (way more of a “loser” than 2nd).</p>
<p>"guess it depends whether you see this type of parenting on a daily basis. "</p>
<p>it was something in how extreme it was (piano or violin, but NOT viola) and how she put it. A good joke, a really good joke, is VERY close to reality, but differs from it very subtle ways.</p>
<p>“But calling your child garbage? How could that possibly be funny?”</p>
<p>er, the same way sticking your head in the oven when your kid says he’s going to get divorced is funny. </p>
<p>"I came home on a sunday, this was a long time ago, my father’s watching television sunday night, he’s watching Ed Sullivan Show, on television, he’s watching the Indiana Home for the Criminally Insane Glee Club on the Ed Sullivan Show. And my mother is in the corner, knitting a chicken, y’know. And I’d said that I would have to get a divorce, my mother put down her knitting, and she got up, and she went over to the furnace, and she opened the door, and she got in. Took it rather badly, I felt. "</p>
<p>So you think the whole book was a joke and she didn’t actually say those things? The mother did not say, “You should go get in the furnace.” She stuck herself in the furnace.</p>
<p>I can see Chua writing, “I felt like garbage, like a tiny piece of trash at the bottom of a dumpster in an alley behind a bar. I was a massive parenting failure.” That would be funny.</p>
<p>Not funny is saying that to a child, or saying you said it to a child. Though there is some comfort in the idea that every page in that book contains a lie of some sort, although I wouldn’t call that a memoir.</p>
<p>Let me repeat an earlier question (now hard to find on this thread): </p>
<p>Tooth marks on the piano. Real or imaginary? If real, a dog’s or a person’s? Your take, Brooklynborndad? And anyone else who has read the entire book?</p>
<p>Incidentally, I feel as though I generally get your jokes, Brooklynborndad!</p>
<p>I thought in America, individualism is celebrated.To be different is good. You can parent your kids however you want unless you run afoul of the law. I think we all recognize Chua is extreme, not representing any Chinese parent as she claims. That is the PR machine. I am sure there are people like her in all ethnic and religious groups. </p>
<p>I have two kids who attended top schools and I COULDN’T choose their EC’s if I wanted to. They would rebel. But I wasn’t laughing at people who made different choices. To each is own.</p>
<p>I hope you are a better person than to laugh at people because their parenting style is different from yours. I know you are proud to be judgmental. But it’s your freedom too.</p>
<p>“So you think the whole book was a joke and she didn’t actually say those things? The mother did not say, “You should go get in the furnace.” She stuck herself in the furnace.”</p>
<p>I did not read the whole book. I read the wsj piece. I thought, from that, that there was at least some element of wink-wink, this is for effect. </p>
<p>And no, afaik Woody Allen’s mom did NOT put her head in a furnace. It was a JOKE. A dark, ghoulish joke, but one that kind of rings true if you know of a certain kind of jewish mother (not MINE, BTW) who does threaten suicide, depression, etc as a way to manipulate children. And that, with its combination of satire, reportage, and exageration, is hysterically funny. </p>
<p>Threatening your kid for not playing a musical instrument is terribly sad. Threatening your for not playing violin or piano (even viola is not okay) is funny. Saying your kid is garbage is sad. but reporting how the other moms at the Reform synagogue reacted when they heard that is hysterical. I mean I can SEE their faces - repulsed, thinking “Oy, an insane Chinese mom” but at the same time thinking “how do i express my repulsion without sounding racist, or worse, disrespecting intermarriage” and then calling it abuse, but with the background of insane Jewish moms of another generation hovering over them. </p>
<p>If Woody were still at top form, he could make the movie of that scene, at least.</p>
<p>"I hope you are a better person than to laugh at people because their parenting style is different from yours. I know you are proud to be judgmental. But it’s your freedom too. "</p>
<p>I laugh at anything I find funny. I don’t know how people survive in this world without doing that.</p>
<p>TIME MAGAZINE (January 31, 2011) has the Tiger Mother on the front cover. VERY good article explaining everything. </p>
<p>You guys should read it. It’s very interesting and explains everything well — especially for many of you who haven’t read the book (how the book is a memoir, discussing the rise of China, how in China they need more creativity/innovation and the education system is heading toward that direction while in the west they already have that but need to heard toward the “Chinese” method if it wants to survive … so both sides want what they don’t have, how Chua’s system is not Chinese but represents that of the elite society in America with their high expectations, and how Chinese families now push for high academics and high extracurriculars, and how many of your responses reflect this “American fear” which is GOOD because it will force America to change and maintain its position in the world just as Sputnik did, so its good to freak out because this will force us to reanalyze ourselves and what we need to change … assuming we aren’t so shortsighted and ignorant that we believe we dont have to change which the article says is more western which fears criticism and students/parents find excuses</p>
<p>that mightve not made sense i just wanted to type it out</p>
<p>Read that magazine too. I am a little amused by the “elite society in America with their high expectations.” What’s the definition of elite society? If you want to define it strictly by wealth … well, the wealthiest people I know (multi millionaires, don’t know any billionaires) don’t NEED to have their kids play the piano / violin / attend Ivy League schools (unless said kids want to). Part of their elite-ness is the fact that the kids can go do exactly what they want to do and they don’t need to impress anyone or strive to be yet-another-investment-banker. That doesn’t mean they don’t value education – they do – but it’s with a much broader take on where good educational opportunities can be found, and not the striver-wanna-be of HYPSM or bust. At least to me, a big part of being elite in this country is self-confidence and an attitude of ease. The elite person is equally as gracious to the fellow Princeton alum and the Big State U grad. It’s the non-elite, the striver, the wannabe, who is so impressed by his Princeton-ness and so quick to make it clear that he’s so superior to Big State U grad.</p>
<p>@QuantMech
Earlier today you asked for my opinion on a situation where multiple students in 1 class are told that they must be the best. So let’s take for example a history class with 20 students; 5 of which are Asian. Let’s say that those 5 Asian students have each been told that they must be the best and get top marks. In a class there are typically: essays, exams, homework, projects, etc. So, if all 5 of the Asian students received As in all of those areas then they are tied. </p>
<p>When it comes to grades, getting an A means #1 and if there are multiple students with As (as there usually are in a single classroom) then they are the same.</p>
<p>Do others agree with RedDinosaur’s interpretation of being the top student?
Many schools have grades on a % basis, and then convert (or not) to letter grades at the end of a marking period. All A’s are not equal in this scenario.<br>
As long as a student crosses the A threshold, that’s good enough?
Why not say so?</p>
<p>I don’t. Even in classes without numerical grades, the top student is whoever would get a rec from the teacher saying they were the top student.</p>
<p>I agree with what QuantMech has been trying to get at. There is only one person who can be the best in the class. If you have five people who have been told they must be the best there are going to be four that fall short of their parent’s expectations. It’s just simple math.</p>
<p>This really depends on how one would define “being the best.” Typically, Asian parents only want to see A grades on a report card since an A (or A+ in some schools) is the highest a student can get. Thus if a student gets the highest possible grades then the student has done his/her best. </p>
<p>I do understand what you are saying, QuantMech. I’m just looking at “being the best” strictly from the viewpoint of grades and not something subjective like the opinions of a teacher.</p>