<p>^ exactly.</p>
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I don’t understand oldfort. Does the author claim in the book that she mishandled this birthday card incident? Or does she believe that there was nothing wrong with what she did?</p>
<p>Because regardless of what I might think of the method, there is a difference between an outburst you regret and one that you feel is warranted and reasonable. </p>
<p>I haven’t read this book, nor any excerpts, nor many of the posts in this behemoth thread. I have heard about this book though, it’s impossible not to. I guess I still don’t understand whether the author felt she did anything wrong, or if she is sticking to her original point of view? I’m not likely to pass judgement on this anyway, just curious.</p>
<p>If I published a book that included a passage about me berating my little child, I wouldn’t expect anyone to support my parenting methods.</p>
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<p>But we were sorry! If Chua wrote this book and spent a couple chapters talking about how the ends don’t justify the means, how children aren’t little projects to implement and direct, how all people have rights to dignity, etc. that would be one thing. She looks like she’s backpedaling now, but really, if she’s a lawyer, she should know how to express herself in a book. It’s really not that complicated a concept to get.</p>
<p>My children are quite young and I’ve shed tears over some of the harsh things I can’t believe I said to such a little child. I have no regrets about being strict, about having firm limits, etc. But when I go overboard, when I try to control them instead of controlling myself, when I get aggressive, I regret it and <em>I apologize</em>.</p>
<p>Because they are people.</p>
<p>Nobody is saying, “Oh, no good parent does that.” What people are saying is that no good parent makes that a modus operandi and later brags about it as an ethnic badge.</p>
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<p>What the hell does 9/11 have to do with anything? It’s a book written by a rigid control freak about how she tried to mold her daughters into her own vision of perfection, and she tries to justify it by claiming it was in accordance with Chinese culture. Of course the compliant child backs her up (her letter strikes me as similar to one a child of an alcoholic or abusive parent would write–and before you flame me, I am not saying Chua is an alcoholic, just that the effect on the child is similar). I’d like to hear what Lulu thinks, but I’m sure she’ll wait until she’s an adult so she won’t suffer any backlash.</p>
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<p>I freely admit screaming at my kid occasionally and accidentally making him feel bad. Sometimes I’ve apologized, and sometimes I haven’t. But it wasn’t a daily occurrence, and I sure didn’t write a book bragging about it!</p>
<p>Okay, Bay. Now I see more context and I still think that, while it may seem somewhat harsh, it was not an outrageous reaction or bad parenting when she was focused on the lessons she wanted her kids to learn. And I challenge the mindset that this type of incident is somehow abusive or permanently damaging to a child. You didn’t include the rest of the story of how the kid went back and remade the card to be saved and cherished.</p>
<p>I’ve seen people comment that she acts as if it is all about her…I don’t see it that way at all (again I haven’t read the book). I think it is about her wanting to take every opportunity to show her kids what she thinks is the appropriate way to go about life. It’s what she really believes will lead to her children being fulfilled and happy. Whether her methods work or not, only her daughters know for sure–and for now, they seem to be saying they do.</p>
<p>No, I am referencing posts after posts about one particular incident, like the birthd, “oh, my goodness, I would never do that, how sad for the children…” Same posters who are saying those things probably have done worst things, except it´s just not out in the public.</p>
<p>I didn´t read the book, but based on what people posted here, I don´t think Chua believes she has done anything wrong over the birthday incident. I have also “flipped out” at my family over not celebrating my birthday properly. If I were to post it on this forum, people would probably jump to conclusion that I was a horrible mother. But if you were in my shoes, and were there that day, you probably would think so. It is just the same when people post here to say that they didn´t know how much college cost, and they didn´t have any money to send their kids to school. The first thing that pops into my mind is how irresponsible, and why would you have kids if you couldn´t properly support them. It is very easy to be judgemental, and believe that we are just so much better than other parents.</p>
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<p>FYI, my Chinese-immigrant parents did the first two on the list. </p>
<p>First was because of the 1992 economic downturn which hit them hard…though that actually played a part in my getting the near-full ride to my LAC so I ended up graduating debt free without having to have the parents pay a cent. </p>
<p>Second, I was left home a lot starting at 6…was one of those “latch-key” kids growing up in 1980’s NYC. Though it started out as a form of necessity because my parents were working long hours to put food on the table, being alone allowed me to develop much more independence and thinking/analysis skills that served me in good stead in college and beyond. Incidentally, I have noticed that parents who stood constant watch over their kids…even into adolescence and beyond tend to adapt poorly once they arrive on campus and must manage things on their own. </p>
<p>As for #3, that sounds somewhat amusing considering I started college at 17 and had the honor of knowing several undergrads under the age of 18…including one college classmate who graduated from my LAC with high honors at 17 and a 14 year old college sophomore.</p>
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<p>I find that quite alien as someone whose family doesn’t make as much of a big deal about our birthdays as most other families due to economic circumstances and my parents’ wartorn childhood experiences.</p>
<p>As for Chua being upset about not having her birthday celebrated “properly” because it didn’t fit her IMHO lavish requirements…that behavior certainly fits the profile of several prima donnas I had the dubious honor of encountering…</p>
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<p>Come on, they are minors living at home. You honestly expect them to publish op-eds criticizing their mother?</p>
<p>And I don’t find anything I’ve heard particularly abusive. Probably not something I would consciously do, but just on the extremely strict end of the spectrum. My father was pretty close to this method, and I’m okay. I’m probably too lenient myself.</p>
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<p>But Wildwood, it was her birthday. Does every day have to include teaching moments? I suspect she ruined the day for everybody.</p>
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<p>Of course I have made mistakes as a parent. I won’t post them even on an on-line forum because I am so ashamed of them. Amy Chua wrote about many of them in her book while her daughters are still teenagers. My mother made mistakes as a parent. If she had written a book about them while I was a teenager I would have been embarrassed to the point of not being able to function.</p>
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<p>I believe that, I also believe she is wrong. One of the things that is so hard to take about her is her smug belief that she has all the answers.</p>
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<p>I agree that the jury is still out about how this will ultimately affect her children. They are still young, I wouldn’t be so sure that they won’t have some problems down the road, caused as much from the existence of the book as the house they were raised in.</p>
<p>I meant when everyone in America doesn’t like something we put aside our differences and attack it.</p>
<p>Her book is not a self help book. It’s just parenting stories and things she experienced as a parent. Where she went wrong, what she learned, etc.</p>
<p>It is just meant to be an entertaining read. Even though it could help a lot of parents out I think.</p>
<p>I have two girls and when they were little they would pick out little party favors, like stickers and erasers, to put into the birthday goodie bags for their parties. They put a lot of thought and effort into deciding which little items should go into those bags. I still remember vividly how they took their time and put their hearts into choosing just the right things. That is why I found it so hurtful and sad for Chua to call the party favors “stupid.” Maybe Chua and not the girls picked them out, in which case I don’t care if she calls them “stupid,” but why did she buy them then?</p>
<p>I also keep hearing Amu Chua say that her book is not a self-help book, it isn’t a how to manual, it is a memoir. Here is the first paragraph of the book</p>
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<p>If this isn’t a self-help book then she should have rewritten this paragraph.</p>
<p>Wildwood11 and other apologists for Chua, please let me reiterate a question that has not yet received an answer:<br>
The teeth marks on the piano, real or a joke?
If real, a person’s or a dog’s?</p>
<p>Also, based on your reading of the book (or excerpt), how long do you believe the younger daughter spent at the piano without food or a bathroom break on the day that she finally mastered “The Little White Donkey?”</p>
<p>I agree that the appearances Chua has made on national programs make her seem more rational. I think the hosts of those shows were trying to “rehabilitate” her, just as the hostess did at the party where Chua announced that she had called her older daughter “garbage.” No one I’ve heard has asked pressing questions, even when the interview seemed to call for it. I include Diane Rehm, Stephen Colbert, and Meredith Viera among those who gave Chua “passes” that seemed unwarranted to me. Diane Rehm normally asks the kinds of follow-up questions that her audience would like to ask; I think of her as a stickler for the truth, and she doesn’t let her guests get away with brush-off answers. But in this case, I felt that she did (just read the transcript, did not hear the show).</p>
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<p>Well, everyone is free to read into it what they like; it’s certainly not my take. Maybe someday we’ll hear more from the Chua daughters, but right now I don’t doubt that Sophia’s letter is sincere and that she has a good relationship with her mom.</p>
<p>I say this because, (I repeat), I was pretty strict with my kids in a lot of ways, especially when the were young, and I didn’t hesitate to call a spade a spade regarding their abilities and their effort. Not only have they both expressed appreciation for the way I raised them, but my older D has mused how she would like me around to help out with her kids (while she continues to work). </p>
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<p>Yeah, basically, for me, every single day with my kids included teaching moments. I sincerely doubt anybody’s day was ruined over that. As some have suggested, her kids were probably pretty used to their mother’s straightforward opinions and if it was anything like in my family, they bounced back from criticism and still do.</p>
<p>I would just like to note that even if children turn out well, that doesn’t mean, necessarily, that the parenting methods used on them “worked.” Indeed, other methods might have worked just as well without the misery.</p>
<p>“her kids were probably pretty used to their mother’s straightforward opinions”</p>
<p>Sad but true. You get used to things that shouldn’t be be considered normal. It’s called dysfunctional.</p>
<p>I believe in being strict and holding a line because I’m the parent and they’re the child, BUT…I still think Chua was over the line in some ways, and overly rigid. Making kids practice INSTEAD of sightseeing on vacation? What’s the point of bringing them?</p>
<p>And this whole thing with the birthday card. She could have said thanks, and nicely said, if you want me to SAVE the card forever, how about one that you put some effort into? It seems obvious the child knew a card of some sort was expected, or Mama would blow her stack. I just think she was too harsh with a 4 year old. This is not unconditional love that I would expect from a mother.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how strict exactly I was raised, but thanks to my father I have a strong work ethic and would say I am doing pretty good. </p>
<p>After looking at all of these rankings showing the US student falling in national rankings I gotta point at the the parents. Sure, there are lazy high schoolers that don’t care, but that starts at a young age.</p>
<p>And, the lady’s not perfect. No parent is. Part of the point of the book is to show how she wsa humbled by her kids and learning from things she could have done differently.</p>
<p>And, it is not a self help book. Her words. Some parents should use it as one though</p>
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<p>I can think of a couple of birthdays that were ruined by “teachable moments” by an out-of-touch, out-of-control parent. Had nothing to do with the party favors, etc.</p>
<p>Same parent cites Tom Friedman’s “The World is Flat” as the basis for parenting style.</p>
<p>Quantmech, of all the excerpts the one that really bothers me is when she does not allow the daughter to go to the bathroom…to me, if the girl really had to go, that is abusive. BUT it may be that she knew her daughter had been to the bathroom very recently and was not going to let her make up excuses to get out of what she was required. The dinner/drink doesn’t bother me as much…you know, many members of the Greatest Generation were sent to bed without any supper by their parents.</p>
<p>I personally wouldn’t have the stomach for these extremes, but I did sometimes have battles with my kids when they were not allowed to leave the piano or put down their other instruments until they were done with their (much shorter) practices. These battles became fewer and farther between and in high school they kept with it on their own. I know kids can get very frustrated when they are being forced to complete a task they really don’t want to do, and the teeth marks are a result of that. But sometimes pushing a kid past their frustration and having them discover how it can pay off, reaps rewards. The ultimate difficulty is knowing how hard to push and when to pull back. I think the limit is much farther than current conventional wisdom in parenting allows for, and as I understand it, Chua recognized that she went too far at some points.</p>