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<p>Red letter child abuse?</p>
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<p>You have a point, but to be fair, their methods do “work” even in the US. There are plenty of kids who are products of “Chinese” parenting and have done quite well- for instance, Ms Chua herself. </p>
<p>If the sole purpose is to take an inherently smart kid and make her succeed in terms of straight academic accomplishment, then the Chinese method works quite well. </p>
<p>But there is so much more to life academic success, or even financial success.</p>
<p>I agree - the piano thing was disturbing. Actually, the whole excerpt was disturbing. I can only imagine how she treats her students… Yikes.</p>
<p>the Chinese method doesn’t work to make a well-rounded individual</p>
<p>Calmom, I think the version she played was not adapted for a younger player and it is actually pretty unusual for a child this age to play this piece. (Yes, you can find very young children playing it on youtube but you can also find youngsters as young as 5 playing the Mendelssohn violin concerto on youtube–I’m not kidding). These girls are both very talented musicians and the mom clearly wasn’t content to allow talent take its natural course. </p>
<p>As to the misguided approach, I wholly agree.</p>
<p>I also don’t see this as a case of Asian/Chinese parenting but of abusive and competitive parenting. This is not even a case of pushing children to excel. This is a case of someone pushing her children to be the “best.” I believe that learning to accept criticism and taking academic risks is key to intellectual growth and ultimately to success in whatever career one chooses. When one is programmed to accept only being the top student, there’s no room to allow risk taking and one is often closed to criticism.</p>
<p>I feel for these girls.</p>
<p>I agree it sounds rather abusive. I wonder where the husband was while she was doing this.</p>
<p>I wonder where the husband was during a lot of things. </p>
<p>I have watched several of the YouTube videos of people playing The Little White Donkey. It is a technically difficult piece that deserves its “Early Advanced” designation on Sheet Music Plus. Perhaps a serious piano student of middle school age could learn it, but asking a 7-year-old to do so seems absurd to me. The really young kids who play it on YouTube do not play it well, for obvious reasons.</p>
<p>Nothing that these kids do is apparently of their choosing. It does not seem that they have been raised to think for themselves.</p>
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<p>First, it is hard for most American-born CCers…including myself to imagine what it would be like to emigrate permanently to another country…especially one where the culture and language is quite different. Even if you end up being one of the few American expats, many parts of the world including major urban areas of Mainland China caters to English speakers so you already have a substantial advantage no Asian immigrant had when they emigrated to the US. There’s a reason why there are many American expats who could spend years, even decades in a foreign country while remaining practically clueless about the country they live in. Heck, I personally know of a few American expats who spent 50 years in various foreign locales who don’t even know how to impart basic greetings in the native language…much less speak fluently or navigate day-to-day affairs without the constant services of a translator. </p>
<p>Second, most Asian-immigrants IME have some language and cultural barriers from being socialized mostly in their country of origin before emigrating. It is much harder for most people who spent their first 30 or more years in their country of origin to radically change their entire worldview on many issues/topics…especially when it may seem/is diametrically at odds with how they were socialized…and under severe stress…we tend to revert back to whatever is familiar and seems right. (Chua has no excuse on this or any score as she is an American-born like I am…cept I was born in NYC and not an Ivy graduate) </p>
<p>Also, unless they’re already wealthy enough to enter the upper-middle class suburbs to live and have their kids attend school there, they’re not likely to live close enough to gain enough IRL contact for the parents to realize there are successful third-tier university graduates/people without college educations living the suburban American dream they want so strongly. If they live in Asian-dominated areas, there’s also strong negative mutual-reinforcing pressure among many families which fosters unhealthy cutthroat competition. Assuming they even allow or desire to watch American TV (Varies greatly by household…many Asian-American HS classmates were also big fans of erudite 80’s TV shows like Transformers, GI Joe, The A-Team.:D), they’re going to discount a substantial portion of it because of language and/or cultural barriers…as well as the fear their “American-born kids” are making it all up to justify “slacking”. While my parents allowed some TV, they banned all video games because the few older kids in my local neighborhood who had the ataris and early nintendos all ended up dropping out of our zoned public high school and graduating to a life of hard knocks or petty crime. </p>
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<p>What about the many more failures and suicides resulting from such rigid constraining parenting practices?? How about the constraining/killing of potential talents outside the narrow stream of what’s acceptable academically or extracurricular-wise??</p>
<p>Stupid question for Prof. Chua and her ilk: Why classical music and not jazz, disco, rap, r&B, blues, or the various forms of rock…especially punk. :D</p>
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Well, that’s part of the point - it is very normal for little kids to do things poorly. I’ve noticed that little kids playing soccer also tend to make a mess of the game, but we still have pee wee soccer leagues. I just don’t think normal parents really care how well the kids actually play – it’s more an exercise/socialization/team spirit kind of thing at that age. </p>
<p>I don’t think it’s a bad thing in and of itself to have a youngster attempt a difficult piece of music, as long as you expect (and reward) child-appropriate proficiency. When I was a kid and played the piano, badly, it helped me to try to play stuff that was far too difficult for me. I didn’t play the difficult stuff even passably well, but after I would practice a difficult piece for awhile, then the stuff at my level was much easier to play. So at least for me, tackling a difficult project is a good way to build the skills needed for the easier stuff. I can see why teachers might like that piece, particularly for its value as an exercise to build the separate right/left hand fingering skill.</p>
<p>But I’m talking about kids with reasonable performance expectations – not with the idea that the kid is going to be “perfect” or even highly proficient. </p>
<p>Again… in the account relayed in the news article, it was the mother’s ego being fed, not the kid’s skills being enhanced.</p>
<p>Another two young ladies, scratched themselves off the potential list.
Postings got big, but from the last page, doesn’t look for them. The girls may turn out to be OK and balanced but they inturn may be the same as their Mom. </p>
<p>;)</p>
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<p>More like Amy Chua’s method (which is not unique to her) does not allow the child to have any interests other than what the parent wants him/her to have.</p>
<p>People should realize that there are parenting methods that not only recognize that the (probably way too common) “TV as a babysitter” method tends to result in low achievement, but also recognize that one does not have to be a slave driver to have a good chance of resulting in high achievement. Imagine reading to a young child and encouraging his/her curiosity, so that s/he finds reading and learning to be an enjoyable activity which s/he does on his/her own, without parental pressure…</p>
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<p>I have heard of nasty fights between the parents when possible rule violations or questionable officiating occurs in youth soccer or little league games. The kids want to keep playing, but the parents start fighting… nice example to set…</p>
<p>Bad parenting is bad in any context – and as I have noted, not specific to any ethnicity. I mean… those aren’t Chinese parents getting into the fights at the little league games, are they?</p>
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<p>Agreed. Only difference seems to be what some parents obsess into rage about:</p>
<p>Stereotypical…and IMO, a bit dated “Asian-American parent” == #1 in academics </p>
<p>Stereotypical American little league despot parent == #1 in sports</p>
<p>Both types: screw everyone else in the process and “fairness be damned”.</p>
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<p>No, not specifically Chinese (or any other ethnicity) parents.</p>
<p>disclaimer: student invading parents forum</p>
<p>Skimmed through a few of the posts in this thread and read the link vicariousparent provided on page 5-----wow, my goodness!</p>
<p>My family are recent Chinese immigrants and I’m finding----and so does my mom after I mentioned this to her---- so much of what’s said in the WSJ article to be ridiculous. Way to take some views associated with Chinese parenting, adopt it and twist it into its most extreme form, and market it as somehow the proper way of raising all kids! But I concede that the author’s doing a very good job of advertising her book considering that this topic has garnered so much reply everywhere in such a short time----maybe being extreme is the way to go to make sure you get a good number of audience.</p>
<p>I know that my parents value education and did much to provide me with the best opportunities possible from actions of theirs as simple as waking up so early on a Saturday morning back then to drive me to a watercolor workshop when I expressed interest in taking one, or agreeing without hesitation to pay for any SAT prep class when I said that I needed help with the test even though the $1000 fee for the course meant a lot to my family. However, I can never imagine them limiting what kind of extracurricular I can participate in, or “spending time drilling academic activities”, or forbidding me from being in a school play or not being the No. 1 student in any subject or playing any instrument other than piano or violin or so many of what she has listed :eek:! (In fact, on the contrary, I’m pretty sure they would be absolutely shocked, thrilled, and overjoyed, if I somehow ever have the nerve to sing in front of an auditorium of people or end up in school play, since I am your stereotypical Asian girl who is painfully shy and quiet, loves science…)</p>
<p>And I just can’t stand this statement from the WSJ article:</p>
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<p>To the author: Much of life is spent attempting tasks that you’re not good at, and the joy in that comes from appreciating others’ skills and ability and acknowledging limitations of your own, the latter of which is not in any way bad but rather inevitable and universal, something you acknowledge then improve upon. To be happy is to accept that you won’t be good at everything but you try to find enjoyment in everything you do. Why would you ever want your child to even attend a top school in the first place :(? She’ll just be miserable and lost amidst a sea of people who are all very accomplished in their own individual ways so that there’s no way she’s even come close to being best in anything.</p>
<p>The comment that “children on their own never want to work” betrays a lack of trust on the part of the parent for the ability, honesty, and dedication of the student that’s bordering upon insult. If your child is showing a lack of interest in the activities you proscribed for her, have you considered that it’s perhaps because she’s not interested in them? And that just perhaps, the time she has wasted on this task can be more efficiently and effectively spent on something which can provide stimulation as well as enjoyment and personally fulfillment? That not everyone thrive on the same activities, but rather each has his or her own natural preferences?</p>
<p>There is a difference between perseverance and hard work that are self-driven which emerge naturally when you’re working on something you enjoy that provides personal meaning (an invaluable trait that I agree is important) and imposing some kind of adamant, idealistic mold of what you think your child should be onto this other individual who has the right and potential to discover her own personality, passions, and preferences. You should certainly ask for hard work, dedication, persistence, effort, but it’s ridiculous to demand that your child must be someone she’s not or live life to follow some suppposed beneficial, proscribed formula of your imagination.</p>
<p>/rant</p>
<p>This focus on the ‘individual’… Most of you posting here will never be able to understand why the Chinese love this method of parenting. There are fundamental differences between Chinese and Western culture that Western parents will, naturally, not grasp. As a Chinese son, I thank my parents and I am truly grateful that I was born Chinese–I would, as I am now, hate and despise life in an American household.</p>
<p>Discussion on the matter is futile because it is literally impossible for Westerners to understand, in my opinion.</p>
<p>Well-said, Calmom!</p>
<p>As a first gen Chinese immigrant and a parent myself, I respectfully disagree with your opinion, Kironide. </p>
<p>In fact, China is as big and as diverse as America. There are over 56 different ethnic groups in China. It is not an homogeneous society and can’t be described by one simple mathematical equation. The method used here by the author is too far left-field to most average Chinese families in China. I am telling you this from a guy who had spent 24 years of my youth in that country.</p>