We attended the accepted student’s session Saturday at Penn State and Smeal business. We were very surprised to learn that although directly accepted to Smeal, that students must attain a 3.2 GPA in 8 qualifying classes to stay in the business school and enter a major (for finance it is a 3.5 GPA). This information is about 8 clicks deep on the Smeal website. It was shocking to learn this at the information session, but it was very disappointing as the administrators were less than forthright with the information. They were also unable to tell the group of about 250 people what the average GPA is for those 8 classes. Nor could they tell us what percentage of student they projected to miss the cut. It should also be noted that the 8 classes continuation in Smeal is based on are as large as 700 students. Hardly the typical smaller classes that represent the usual learning environment at Smeal. It seems like qualifying for a marathon based on your time in a 40-yard dash. To compound all this, an administrator justified all this by saying struggling students would be better off in another major. As if a 3.15 GPA in (8) 350-700 student classes is “struggling”. It should be noted that only a 2.0 GPA is needed after qualifying to enter a major. Penn State is a great school and our daughter was ready to commit, but this was a huge turnoff for someone that believed they were a “real” direct admit. It left us disappointed with the leadership of the program.
Sorry, I’m a little confused. So you said that students have to attain a 3.2 GPA in 8 qualifying classes. Can I ask which 8 classes that are ? Are they 8 classes from the current high school that we are taking or 8 special classes that the student will have to join at college ?
Anw this is totally a turnoff I’m so surprised…
Yep, due diligence is on the applicant. I googled Smeal Entrance to Major requirements – pretty forthright. Rigor of program is foundational/fundamental to Smeal reputation.
Moving forward, ensure that you explore those issues for your daughter’s alternate choices. Good luck!
I really can’t see this as sinister plot to hide information – Smeal is the hardest school in a difficult university. Entrance to major as a sophomore is PSU standard across all colleges and gpa requirements are part of many and that’s really common knowledge, or at least easily found. Education has a similar requirement of gpa in pre-req courses, for example, so does graphic arts and PR. All majors require at least a C or better in their courses.
Yes, early on there are some humungous classes. Not my cup of tea either, but clearly it is not keeping people away. If you and your daughter feel it’s not a match, someone else will happily take her place. It’s a shame the visit was such a shock, but at least you found out before deciding.
You can also switch to dus/paterno fellow and take some honors sections (honors economics and English /cas, respectively 30 and 15 students). There are no negative consequences for that as long as you remain dus till you declare. You can enroll in the business freshman seminar for example. To avoid some huge classes you can also use summer classes (at up or at a branch) - you can take stats in the summer when classes are small for instance.
But yes, Smeal was so in-demand that they had to increase the GPA requirement.
Students who don’t make it or change their minds can also look into some of the cla or communication or ITS majors. College of agriculture has an excellent agribusiness major with contact to Nestle, Pepsicola , etc.
Just my thoughts. My son was accepted directly to Smeal. He is finishing up his freshman year. If your child is intelligent enough to be accepted directly to Smeal they should have no problem maintaining that 3.2 GPA. My son finished his summer LEAP classes with a 3.8, his first semester with a 3.9 and looks like he will finish this semester around a 3.8. I agree that if you don’t think your student can maintain a 3.2 which my son says is pretty-easy, than you should not be in Smeal. Some of the students he knows who went in DUS to Smeal are not making the cut. Two of his friends are actually transferring to other universities because of it.
Also, I agree with @greenbutton, information is easy to find on entrance to major requirements. All the Smeal students know this when going in. All you have to do is google Smeal entrance to major requirements and it pops right up. Nothing is being “hidden”. There are so many students wanting Smeal that it is the only way to keep enrollment down while still providing an excellent education.
It’s a big university. 40,000 undergrads. This is to be expected.
Furthermore it shouldn’t really matter whether you sit there and listen to lecture with 3 people or 300 people.
Very clear on the Smeal website. As soon as you click on a specific major it will have a link to the requirements. If they allowed every single pre major into the major, there would be no room. So they have to have pre major requirements at a school this large.
NO ONE at PSU is “in” their major…not in any major except direct admit majors such as nursing, golf course management, etc…
Everyone else has to complete entry to major requirements to get into their major. Everyone is considered “pre major” until their Junior year when they are officially in the major if they met the requirements. This is the reason why we say over and over on this page that starting DUS is the same as starting in the Smeal major and you can get to a Smeal degree from both.
I see that you’ve spent most of your time at CC on the UVA boards so you may have missed it here…but these entry to major requirements are talked about often here.
@lilysteward Here are the entry to major requirements for Smeal. You should not be surprised. This is the way most majors at PSU are. A little research and a google search go a long way!
https://advising.psu.edu/entrance-major-requirements-smeal-college-business-2017
Many parents and students do not bother to read the websites and materials sent out. It is only a surprise because you did not inform yourself from available documentation.
I will say that no other school my daughter has considered manages major entry (in that they are shut out of the business school completely) this way including Purdue, Miami of Ohio, Wisconsin, VT, Butler, etc. I’m sure those familiar with PSU are aware. We are new to PSU so we are not.
I will also say that for such a critical factor, it should be more up front.
I can tell you we were FAR from the only family learning this for the first time at the session last weekend. This is the first year PSU is doing this way as well.
All that aside, the administration needs to be able to answer the question, “What has been the aggregate GPA of students taking these 8 classes?” And “What % of students have you projected to miss the cut?” Given the fact that we would be investing ~$180K in a PSU education I think those question are more than fair and indeed necessary to make an informed decision.
Can you please clarify what you mean by “this way”? Entrance to major has been well-established for years.
^ I agree the administration needs to be able to indicate the aggregate GPA for these classes and the % that typically doesn’t make the cut .
However the system has been in place for many years.
At the information session, the administrators indicated that the GPA requirement in the 8 qualifying courses was new for this incoming class. I do not know what system they used in the past.
I also agree that those statistics should be available somewhere, but it may also be difficult to determine since those in DUS can also take the same entry to major requirements and there is no way to know which of those students didn’t make the cut they were working towards.
However, you are not “shut out” of the business school altogether. If she was admitted in Smeal, then she can take business classes. She will also have a Smeal advisor and go to Smeal events etc… She just needs to get a certain GPA to STAY in the business school. Nothing super unusual about that. As far as “this is the first year they are doing it this way” I’m not sure what you mean as this has been the way Smeal has been handled for years.
And yes, I’m sure you feel that we are being harsh since we all know about PSU and this is a surprise to you - but I will also say my kids applied to lots of schools and the first things we checked was “how do you get into a major” at the school in question. Some do it like PSU, some don’t. But most have requirements to stay or get into a major.
For my purposes, I’d rather send my kid to a school that has a standard to graduate with a certain degree rather than a ‘get in when you are 18 and coast the rest of the way’ degree. PSU makes sure you are meeting standards all the way through. I think that is a good thing. Several of the schools you mentioned have unranked business schools. They can NOT be compared to the very highly ranked Smeal College of Business at Penn State.
For what it’s worth…if you google “how to get into a major in Smeal”, this comes right up…
https://ugstudents.smeal.psu.edu/academics-advising/get-into-a-smeal-major
Maybe they added a new entrance to major class this year or something, but enrollment-controlled majors have existed since before I came here, and before my friend’s brother came here, so at the very least like seven years back. Probably longer. This is the same system I went through last spring to enter ChemE. You get the required grades (ex. C or better) in a certain list of courses, and achieve a certain GPA (for me, 3.0+) and you’re in.
This link may be useful for referring back to re: ETM requirements and advising: https://ugstudents.smeal.psu.edu/academics-advising/get-into-a-smeal-major/pre-major-planning
I don’t understand. Each college regardless of what major sets requirements for students who are interested in declaring that major.