I am a 10th Grader and at this point of my school life, I have to start searching which university fits me the most. Can you please post your opinions on Berkeley and CalTech and also mention which you think is better?
“which you think is better?”
This is not a possible question to answer. You need to find what is a good fit for you. These schools are both quite difficult to get into and academically very challenging (they will be a LOT of work if you go there), but they are very different from each other.
What do you want in a school?
Generally, I have no problem with competition since I attend the most competitive school in Greece and do very well(19.8/20.0). I am also engaged in many extracurricular activities and try to be very active. I agree that it will be MY choice where I want to study, but I am just asking to see different opinions and would like to see some advantages and disadvantages of each University so I can make my decision easier
You can research each one.
So which of vanilla or chocolate ice cream is “better”?
okay I understand your placement, I just made this discussion to see diversity and different opinions
You are going to want to apply to more than one college, so you don’t need to pick one over the other. You’d have to get accepted before you even have a choice. Both are quite challenging for admissions. Also, if you need financial aid, don’t bother with Berkeley, you won’t get any.
They are very different institutions. Cal is a large state university that offers a huge variety of majors. CalTech is comparatively tiny with only very specific STEM majors. There is no “better” between them. There are differences, and what seems “better” is very dependent on you.
Not sure what you mean by it will be “MY” choice where to study. It will be your choice where to apply, but the admissions landscape (especially for international students) is extremely competitive, so you may not have all the choices you hope for. It isn’t very helpful to focus too much on one school or only top schools.
I know that you can submit your application in many universities, but your early decision can only be sent in ONE university
Something else I would like to add is that everyone is saying that there is no “better” university, but actually, there is. This is why the rankings exist. I mean it is a matter of fact that MIT and Stanford are better than NYU let’s say and no one can say no to that. That is why I asked which you think is better. @PurpleTitan @DadTwoGirls
A couple of points to consider. First, universities in the US are expensive. You need to make sure your parents are able, and willing, to spend $80,000/year on your college education. That’s how much one year at Caltech and Berkeley will cost them if you matriculate in 2019.
As others have pointed out, gaining admission into Caltech and Berkeley, and any of their peers for that matter, is not likely, even for top students such as yourself. You need to also do well on the ACT/SAT. Caltech expects virtually perfect scores, while Berkeley’s standards are not much lower. Even then, the acceptance rate for highly qualified students into those universities is very low. You need to manage your expectations.
To make yourself a strong candidate, you obviously want to maintain your excellent grades. You also want to do well on the SAT/ACT and the SAT subject tests. You want to continue your commitment to your extra curricular activities. Caltech likes applicants who have worked on research, so if you have the opportunity to conduct research, do so.
Caltech is a small, private university, with only 1,000 undergraduate students and 1,200 graduate students, focused entirely in Engineering and the core sciences (Biology, Chemistry, Computer Science, Geology, Mathematics and Physics). It also happens to have a small but good Economics department. It has a decidedly unique culture that is centered around unusually challenging academics. Students at Caltech do very little but study. If you like Caltech, other schools worth looking at include Chicago (no Engineering, but great in the other Sciences), Carnegie Mellon, Harvey Mudd, MIT and Rice.
Berkeley is a large public university, with 29,000 undergraduate students and 11,000 graduate students. Unlike Caltech, Berkeley has departments across the entire academic spectrum, ranging from Business and Engineering to the humanities and the social sciences. Other schools similar to Berkeley include Cornell, Michigan-Ann Arbor and UCLA.
Without knowing more about your academic and non-academic interests, it is difficult to give you more insight.
Thank you very much @Alexandre your advice is useful
“I know that you can submit your application in many universities, but your early decision can only be sent in ONE university”
Neither Caltech nor UCB has early decision (ED) admissions.
Caltech uses early action (EA), not ED. ED is restrictive; you must attend if admitted, unless the financial aid offered is prohibitively low. EA is unrestrictive, so you can apply to as many other universities as you wish during the early admission round (such as MIT, Georgia Tech, etc.):
http://blog.prepscholar.com/early-action-schools-and-colleges-complete-list
The UCs only have one admission cycle; due dates for applications fall after the Caltech EA application deadline, but before Caltech admission decisions are released.
So, you can apply to both Caltech and UCB. But, as other posters have already commented, you should broaden your search.
There may indeed be a strong consensus that MIT and Stanford are “better” than NYU.
You (or a ranking service) could cite many statistics to back up that opinion. However, it’s still an opinion, not a matter of fact.
Some research concludes there is no significant benefit to attending a more prestigious college with respect to lifetime earnings (after controlling for differences in admission selectivity). See the following:
https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/revisiting-the-value-of-elite-colleges/?mcubz=0&_r=0
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/08/does-college-matter/400898/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/do-elite-colleges-lead-to-higher-salaries-only-for-some-professions-1454295674
https://www.wsj.com/articles/do-elite-colleges-lead-to-higher-salaries-only-for-some-professions-1454295674
At any rate, especially as an international student, your chances of admission to Cal Tech, Stanford, or MIT are low (well under 10%, or even under 5%, for some of the “elite” private schools). The odds are a bit higher for Berkeley, but even if they accept you, they don’t offer financial aid to international students. So, you may want to consider a bigger set of alternatives. For example, the following schools are slightly less selective than Stanford /MIT, but also offer strong STEM programs and good financial aid:
Northwestern University
Tufts University
University of Notre Dame
University of Southern California
Vanderbilt University
These too will be “reach” schools for admission and aid, especially for an international student … but if you are only interested in high-ranking schools, you might want to start with colleges in the US News top 30 or so. If you are considering an arts & science major (not engineering or business) you also might want to consider small liberal arts colleges (LACs). These schools may be less familiar to many international students, but many of them (at least the top-ranked 50 or so) offer excellent financial aid and high quality academics, as well as total focus on undergraduates.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges
I would suggest suggest that you look at schools that like giving scholarships to international students. Alabama and Stony Brook would be your back up options.
You’d first need to assess whether you need financial aid at all, and if so, how much.
If you do need a significant amount, then this should be a major driver in building your application list.
In some cases it’s better to focus on need-based aid, in other cases it’s better to focus on merit scholarships … and in still other cases it’s best to focus on low sticker prices. Many public universities (including Berkeley) don’t offer any financial aid to internationals.
The following Wiki page (which may not be perfectly up-to-date) shows a break-down of college need-based aid policies toward international students (focusing especially on selective private schools):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission
Don’t just look at rankings. Neither of my kids ended up attending the highest ranked school they got into. Both decided that a school further down the rankings list offered the best programs in their area of study and felt the most like the place they would want to be for 4 years. They have both graduated, and their choices turned out very well for them.
I’d suggest you get a copy of The Fiske Guide to Colleges and spend some time with it. Also discuss finances with your parents; a US college education can easily top a quarter of a million dollars with little or no aid for a foreign student. Come back for advice once you have standardized test scores in hand, too. Good grades are great, but the measure against the rest of the applicant pool is test scores.
Thank you for the advice!
Something I would also like to ask is whether the University you attend as an Undergraduate or the University you attend as a Graduate for your major is what counts more for your future employment?
I have heard that where you did your major is most important since it’s the most recent and that where you studied as an Undergraduate isn’t so crucial.
Another question I have is the following:
Do you think that legacy counts?
That depends on how your country’s employers value an American education at US universities.
(As an international student, you cannot expect to be hired by US employers. If you are admitted to a US university, that’s it. You are expected to return to your home country after graduation. Currently, US companies are not sponsoring international candidates. Employers have to state to the government that there are no American candidates for a position before considering offering a job to a non citizen.)
Another key thing is fit. Make sure the school you attend is somewhere you will be happy. 10 spots in the ranking won’t do much in the end. I know students from unranked state schools who are doing very well and others from t-20s still trying to figure out what to do with there lives. Cal and Cal tech are very different. What major do you want to apply for? Also both are very hard and having great stats won’t get you in automatically.
Many privates do give a bump for legacies but Caltech explicitly doesn’t consider legacy and Cal, as a public, probably doesn’t either.
In any case, I don’t think you are one since if one of your parents attended one of these two, you would know more about these schools.