<p>berk EECS for spring 2006 or Wash U ( off the waitlist) for maybe pre med</p>
<p>in a word... Berkeley. But I say that because I have experience with both and I like the Cal atmosphere way more. Wash U is basically in suburbia, which is what Im trying to get away from. I just loved Cal's unique feel, so thats my reason. Plus its way cheaper if youre in state. The only thing on Wash U's side is its more specialized programs as opposed to traditional majors. My best friend goes there and is an architecture major and she has had some amazing opportunities that she wouldnt have had at other places.</p>
<p>Isn't it, like, too late? Unless Spring Admits turn in their SIR later.</p>
<p>well he said off the waitlist, so i guess solo would just give up his deposit</p>
<p>I would say WashU considering you're interested in pre-med and Berkeley doesn't have good turnouts for med-school.</p>
<p>Yeah, if premed is your thing, then the data seems to indicate that you may be better off at WU.</p>
<p>If you don't believe me, look at the data. 87% of WU premeds who had a GPA over 3.5 of above got into medical school. Berkeley premeds who had a GPA of 3.9 of better (yeah, that's right, a 3.9) got into medical school with only an 84% success rate. Hence, WU premeds with lower grades are getting in at a higher rate. </p>
<p>Hence, you may be thinking to go to Berkeley to save money (if you're in-state). However, if you want to be a doctor, you might go to Berkeley to save money, and then find out that you can't get into medical school. That's truly a case of being penny-wise, pound-foolish. </p>
<p>Now, in fairness, if you don't want to be a doctor, then that changes things substantially. However, if you want to be a doctor, then you want to go to the place that will maximize your chances of getting into medical school. The data unfortunately seems to indicate that Berkeley is not the best place to go to do that.</p>
<p>what if i don't want to be a doctor, cuz i mean i really don't noe if i will do well with pre med</p>
<p>by the way, my major at berkeley is electrical engineering and computer science. the only thing that i don't really like about it is that i m a spring admit</p>
<p>If you know you're going to stay in EECS (I think over half of all incoming EECS students will not graduate with an EECS degree), then I would say that Berkeley is the better choice.</p>
<p>why wouldn't they graduate with a eecs degree? too hard?</p>
<p>It's too hard, or they find something else that they like better (although that is probably intertwined with EECS being too hard).</p>
<p>Sakky wrote "I think over half of all incoming EECS students will not graduate with an EECS degree". This is at odds with the answer of Dean of EECS. The retention rate is 80% per the Dean. However, he also stated that 100% of his students found jobs immediately after graduation which is not true per UCB stats that I read.</p>
<p>sakky, do you happen to have the statistic on the number of students who change their majors over the course of their 4+ years at CAL? I'm sure there is a high number of EECS students who change their major, but how does that compare to other majors? Also, on average, how many times does a student change their declared major? </p>
<p>From what I have read, it is very common for students to change their majors over the course of their UG education. The US educational system fosters this flexibility. There is little expectation that what you indicate as a major at 17 will remain static. This is not the case outside of the US.</p>
<p>to Ceetee, well, I think the answer can be answered quite simply for somebody who wants to take the time. Go to the Berkeley Common Data Set (which is publicly available on the Berkeley website) and compare the number of EECS degrees awareded per year to the number of EECS admitted students (don't forget about the EECS transfer students). I don't feel like doing the research, but if somebody wants to take the time to do it, please do so.</p>
<p>To avoidingwork, it is obviously true that lots of Berkeley students change their major. But obviously it tends to go "one-way" - from difficult majors to easy majors. Relatively few people come into Berkeley intending to major in something easy and then decide they'd rather major in, say, chemical engineering or physics, but a LOT of people do the reverse. </p>
<p>Hence, I would not just say that it's a simple matter of only fostering flexibility. The truth is a bit darker. Yes, it is to some extent it is about fostering flexibility. On the other hand, it also has a lot to do with students deciding that they don't really want to work hard and that they'd rather take it easy and get a degree without having to study too much.</p>
<p>We should follow the British system...that seems so much more focused without bunk.</p>
<p>sakky, unless you have some stats that show what majors students have changed from and to and why; it is just your conjecture and further opinion about 'difficult' majors, 'easy' majors and why people change. There is no 'darker' side (but gee maybe it is a conspiracy). </p>
<p>To my knowledge, the US educational system is the only one that provides for (and encourages) the idea of changing one's focus of study at the college level. I have worked with many people from the UK, Europen, and India and have not come across any other educational system with this approach</p>
<p>You're right, I don't have stats. Do you know why? Because Berkeley won't publish them. You must agree that Berkeley isn't exactly excited to talk about how lots of students come in and find that they need to change to an easier major, and it's certainly not something they are going to advertise. Heck, you have a devil of a time even getting Berkeley to admit that some majors are easier than others, although anybody who actually knows Berkeley knows it to be true. Berkeley would like to have you believe that all majors are equally difficult and the students in them are equally hard-working. Do you believe that? Does anybody? </p>
<p>However, consider this article. It's about UCLA, but it should sound eerily familiar to anybody who knows engineering at Berkeley.</p>
<p>"Last fall, 2,707 undergraduate students were enrolled in the Henry Samueli School of Engineering and Applied Science, but only three out of five students will make it to graduation in four years - if at all. SEAS students make up nearly 11 percent of the undergraduate student body at the start of each year, but they account for less than 6.5 percent of the total graduating class. This means engineering students are either dropping out of school or switching out of their major in droves - talk to any economics or biology student and there's a good chance they used to be an engineer."</p>
<p>But in any case, if anybody wants to go ahead and prove me wrong, go for it. The data is available in the Common Data Set. Look at how many engineering students Berkeley admits (including transfer students), and then look at how many engineering degrees Berkeley grants. Then ask yourself why is there such a big difference between the two numbers? If it was really the case that people were simply changing majors to explore their interests and nothing else, then those engineers who found liberal arts more interesting would be replaced by liberal arts students who found engineering to be more interesting. Yet the migration seems to be highly one-way. Why?</p>
<p>Ooh, I smell a conspiracy. Berkeley's trying to hide something. After all, if they published these things god knows what would happen. The truth is, maybe these people that changed majors said, "hey, this stuff is really boring and its not getting me any chicks, maybe I should write poety!" But in any case, if anyone wants to prove that these people didn't switch majors to get more chicks than please prove me wrong.</p>
<p>lol. conor may have something. has there been an analysis of why so many geeky CAL guys are now writing poetry? Is it because it is an easier major or could it be the 'chick factor'? How does the 'CAL ugly girls' theory affect this trend?</p>
<p>on a less sarcastic note.....sakky, would you post the link to the CDS on this thread.</p>