berk or wash u

College Confidential Community
21

<p>Conspiracy you say? Go ahead, prove me wrong. If I have sufficient time, I'll do the data-mining exercise myself. </p>

<p>But in any case, you asked for the CDS link. Here it is. Have fun.</p>

<p><a href="http://cds.vcbf.berkeley.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://cds.vcbf.berkeley.edu/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And besides, think carefully about what that guy from UCLA said. He said that UCLA has plenty of engineering students drop out to easier subjects. Why do you think that is? Are you saying they are ALL dropping out because of the "chick factor"?</p>

22

<p>No no no, my dear friend Sakky, YOU prove ME wrong. I'm merely demonstrating a point, which is that nobody know the motivation for people dropping out of one major in favor of another. And it goes back to your mantra of basically saying any major in the humanaties is useless. Is, say, English such a horrible major that the only reason someone would possibly drop out of tech major in favor of English is because of its percieved easyness? Or history, or poli sci, or anyother non tech majors. Are they all really full of people who just don't have the smarts to hack it in the tech classes, or is it possible that these people are actually INTERESTED in these majors, that they actually love these majors and take them on purpose. Can you wrap your head around the idea that not every person in the world wants to work for a biotech firm or google or microsoft? And please don't come back at me by saying "I never said ALL humanities are useless," because you don't need to flat out say it, you've impied it over and over.</p>

23

<p>Sakky, I do not know why you keep picking on Berkeley. You say that Berkeley has these easier majors that its students enroll in. But doesn't every school (yes even the coveted HYPS) have these easier "humanities" courses. For some reason you keep picking on Berkeley for the fact that yes some majors are easier than others.</p>

24

<p>Some majors require critical thinking while some require a strong memory and regurgitation of facts</p>

25

<p>dont let sakky change your opinion about cal, he's/she's as meaningful as an african revolt</p>

26

<p>Ironic, you have some interesting similes. Kind of Dan Ratherish. Anyway, I already go to Cal.</p>

27

<p>Conor, once again, you misinterpret what I have been saying, and I suspect you do so deliberately. Did I say that EVERY student in the humanities is doing it because it's easy? Please point to the quote where I specifically said that. Oh, wait, you can't do it, can you? </p>

<p>What I said is that SOME students in the humanities are just in there because it's easy. And I think you know that that's true. I think you will have to concede that not everybody in your beloved humanities are there because they are truly interested in the material. Some people are just there because they're just trying to get an easy degree. They want to have a Berkeley degree, but they don't want to have to work hard for it, so they choose an easy major. </p>

<p>And that is the problem that I am pointing to. I don't think Berkeley should be coddling people who are just trying to coast. You come to Berkeley with the primary purpose to study and learn something, not just drink, party, play video games, and hang out for weeks on end. Think about what the California taxpayers are thinking - they're going out and working to pay taxes that go to UC so that some (not all, but some) students will sit on their rear ends and do nothing. Do you support that? Or think of it another way. Plenty of students who would have studied hard at Berkeley are not admitted because seats are taken up by lazy Berkeley students who just want to party all day long. Do you support that? </p>

<p>Once again, I have no quarrel with people who want to study humanities because they really want to study it. That's perfectly fine. I, and many other people, however, have a very big problem with people studying humanities just because it's easy and because it gives them a lot of free time to party. Conor, you know that that happens.</p>

<p>And to msagaki, I am well aware of what other schools are doing. But so what? Who cares? So what if other schools are doing bad things? Does that mean that Berkeley should go around doing bad things too? You know the saying about your friends jumping off a bridge. The issue at hand is what Berkeley should do to get better. Hence, it doesn't matter what the other schools are doing, it only matters what Berkeley is doing. To say that it matters what other schools are doing is like Scott Peterson saying that since other people murder their wives and get away with it, then he should be allowed to murder his wife and get away with it. Or, more to the point, if Berkeley fixes its problems and other schools don't, then Berkeley will be better than those other schools. </p>

<p>In fact, I would say that it's worse at Berkeley than at private schools, specifically because Berkeley is taking tax dollars from the people of California, and using some of it to, in effect, subsidize laziness. If somebody wants to go to a private school and be lazy, that's his problem. He's paying all the tuition, so if he wants to throw his money away by doing nothing, that's his business. At Berkeley, the education is tax subsidized, so when students are lazy, it's the taxpayers' money that is being wasted. That's a problem.</p>

28

<p>Could you specifically state which majors you consider to be easier? Are you saying that it is a waste of everyone's money for a student to go to college, major in english/other humanities and take a job as a teacher? What majors do you consider a waste of taxpayers money??</p>

29

<p>^ Sakky. Actually, the federal government also gives grants to private schools. In effect, they're wasting our tax dollars too. </p>

<p>Also, its funny to me that overall your position is basically, sciences should be easier, and humanities should be harder. Fact is that both types of majors are vastly different. Of course it will be harder to get a job with a degree in Classics than a degree in Econ. Thats up to the individual what they want to study. You have a tendency to play this big brother role where everyone should be watched so they study! Please, get a life, if you really want people to study, you shouldn't be posting here during student's finals. But here you are... doing exactly just that.</p>

30

<p>Sakky was referring to the fact that the University of California draws funds from state coffers which are filled by the tax payer's dollars. Federal government grants pale in comparison (per person) when compared against the reduction of price at a UC and the amount of grants/scholarships private schools give. For example, Georgetown offered me $18000 in grants and scholarships, compared to the $0 in grants and scholarships per person. </p>

<p>Thus, by comparing the grants from federal governments to the running of the entire UC system by state money is a faulty drawing of comparison.</p>

31

<p>^ Yeah, but even if a private university is given $1 from the federal government, one can make the argument that a student at a private university is wasting tax dollars by not studying.</p>

32

<p>
[quote]
...its funny to me that overall your position is basically, sciences should be easier, and humanities should be harder. Fact is that both types of majors are vastly different. Of course it will be harder to get a job with a degree in Classics than a degree in Econ. Thats up to the individual what they want to study. You have a tendency to play this big brother role where everyone should be watched so they study!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Why not, Tupac? One of my positions is that the taxpayer should not subsidize laziness. If people want to be lazy on their own dime, that's up to them. But why should the taxpayers pay for you to be lazy? Hence, if it's taxpayer money that is at stake here, that money SHOULD be watched carefully to see where it is going. Why is that such an unreasonable request? Are you advocating that tax money should just be spent willy-nilly on anything without being carefully watched and audited? That taxpayers shouldn't be allowed to see where their money is going? </p>

<p>
[quote]
Please, get a life, if you really want people to study, you shouldn't be posting here during student's finals. But here you are... doing exactly just that

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ha! What are you suggesting here? I don't have any final exams, so I have the free time to post. Yet, just because I post here during finals does not mean that I am forcing anybody else to come here and read my posts. People do that out of their own free will. If you are a good student who needs to be spending your time studying, then maybe you shouldn't be on CC right now, reading my posts. If people are here reading my posts when they should be studying for their finals, then that gets to the very irresponsibility and laziness that I have been pointing out. Hence, you are only proving my point even further. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Could you specifically state which majors you consider to be easier?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think it's dangerous for me to do so, because it would only encourage those people who want to be lazy to go and declare those majors. However, believe me, it's not just me that has been saying it. A lot of people have pointed out that certain majors are basically fluff. If you want, you can email me privately and I can point you to certain posts that have been made on CC that talk about this.</p>

33

<p>50 afghan cents</p>

34

<p>
[quote]
Ha! What are you suggesting here? I don't have any final exams, so I have the free time to post. Yet, just because I post here during finals does not mean that I am forcing anybody else to come here and read my posts. People do that out of their own free will. If you are a good student who needs to be spending your time studying, then maybe you shouldn't be on CC right now, reading my posts. If people are here reading my posts when they should be studying for their finals, then that gets to the very irresponsibility and laziness that I have been pointing out. Hence, you are only proving my point even further.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Wrong. On one hand, you say that students should study and not waste taxpayer dollars. Then you say its clearly not your fault if you posted what you did and they read and reply to what you wrote. </p>

<p>The fact of the matter is, that for every post you make, more and more Berkeley students who should be studying for finals will read it, and waste time, and therefore taxpayer dollars. So you are aiding in the wasting of taxpayer dollars, especially during finals time. </p>

<p>You believe that people should be studying under the watchful eye of big brother and not wasting time. yet you encourage students to read your rants and waste taxpayer's dollars. Hypocritical if you ask me.</p>

35

<p>tupac=hero</p>

<p>in the citaaaay, the city of compton...</p>

36

<p>Sakky, of course you didn't say EVERY student in the humanities is there for the easy grade, because that would mean that you can't have it both ways, which is something you love to have. You see, you need to make up your mind. If you're saying that this is a frequent occurance then I stand by my previous post, but if, like you say, its only a few students who do this then I don't see why you're complaining. There are many tech majors that choose their majors purely to have good job prospects after school and have no real interest or love for their major. I would say there are more of these types of students then there are humanities students who just want to coast through. Which is worse, people who love what they study and really want to learn and improve themselves, or people who only care about how much cash they'll make once they graduate and could care less about learning and improving themselves? Personally I don't think people who only care about money and which software company they end up at bring anything to Cal and I wish there were less of them.</p>

37

<p>
[quote]
The fact of the matter is, that for every post you make, more and more Berkeley students who should be studying for finals will read it, and waste time, and therefore taxpayer dollars. So you are aiding in the wasting of taxpayer dollars, especially during finals time.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>How's that? Again, am I forcing anybody to come to CC and read my posts? Do I have a gun to anybody's head? People come here to CC of their own free will, and they choose to respond to my posts of their own free will. They are free to not read my posts, they are free to not come to CC, heck they are free to turn off their computers. So if people are truly wasting precious study time by choosing to come here to CC and responding to my posts, tell me, whose fault is that? </p>

<p>You act as if I'm some sort of puppetmaster with psychic powers who can compel people to do whatever I want. Honestly, if I had those kinds of powers, I wouldn't be using them here. I'd be using them to compel Jennifer Lopez and Angelina Jolie to come to my bedroom. </p>

<p>And to conor, oh I completely disagree with everything you just wrote. To go down that road is to basically say that Berkeley ought to shut down both Boalt and Haas. After all, how many law and business-school students are just there to get a job? I'd say almost all of them. Furthermore, the key factor is are you actually learning anything? A school exists for the purpose of education and learn. Taxpayers pay for students to learn. Schools don't exist so that students can come and screw around and do nothing, and certainly taxpayers aren't paying taxes to subsidize that kind of behavior. Even those engineers who are just there to get a job are forced to learn something because of the rigor of the curriculum. Hence, the goal of the school - which is learning - has been fulfilled. On the other hand, there are plenty of humanities students who are learning nothing, and who don't want to learn anything. </p>

<p>And to your question of whether there are few such students, well, I would say that if there are few such students, then it should be easy for Berkeley to stamp the problem out, so why not do that? After all, if it's really true that there are only a few such students, then it should be easy for Berkeley to reform or 'convince' these few students that they ought to be studying harder.</p>

38

<p>Those students aren't learning, they're being trained. There's a difference. And there is a process to stamp out the problem of people not learning--and they're actually going on right now--called finals. BTW, your complete and utter lack of respect for the humanities is comical. I'd hate to see your ideal world. I somehow picture thousands of robots sitting in cubicles crunching numbers all day. Anyway, this could go on for ever so I think we should maybe just chalk this one up to difference of opinion and priorities and move on.</p>

39

<p>just remember sakky's opinion is as reliable as middle eastern currency</p>

40

<p>interesting....what is the more destructive path: studying something since it is easier for you or studying something that you are not passionate about but are doing for the $$ at the end of the tunnel?</p>

<p>Also, for my $$, I believe that a primary goal of higher ed is to gain experience in thinking not just learning a body of information. The information is the conduit for thinking (creatively and analytically)</p>

<p>And finally, the taxpayers do not own the students 24x7. There is no commitment to work x amount of time studying. This laziness thing that Sakky raises seems to be one of those competitive things....dissing others to make oneself seem important/cool/smart. It reminds me of situations at work where people complain about the number of hours others are working in relationship to what they are doing. No one cares. All that matters is that you get the work done well and take responsiblity for your actions (in this context, pass your classes)</p>

<p>(was up at 4am for a work issue, so if I'm cranky apologies in advance)</p>