<p>^
Like I stated before, give me any other elite college that is in a better location than Cornell and I'll go there in an instant. The main reason I would not want to go to Cornell is because it just seems so miserable there in regards to where it is. That alone makes it enough for me to put it on my "no" list.
And I think Ivy League matters. Oh yea. It definitely does. You say I went to UC Berkeley and that will make any average pedestrian go damn nice. You say I went to Yale/Princeton/Harvard/etc. and the same person will go DAYUM nice. This eventually stretches, imho, to where you work in the future as well.
Lastly, I would definitely agree with your 3rd reason, though reasons 1 and 2 are definitely debatable.</p>
<p>How I'd hate to be faced with that decision.</p>
<p>Haha...</p>
<p>First, we're not talking about HYP here; we're discussing Cornell. </p>
<p>To the average pedestrian if you say I went to UC Berkeley versus Cornell or University of Pennsylvania (both ivies) its a toss-up depending on location.</p>
<p>If however, you are looking for a job, in the Bay Area UC Berkeley engineering >> Cornell engineering. There's just so many connections with companies and the university that you can't get at Cornell. </p>
<p>Finally, nobody beats Berkeley in EECS. Nobody. Vi, Sendmail, BSD were all developed here.</p>
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-Walk through 3 feet of snow to get to class?</p>
<p>You may say it doesn't matter, but really. This isn't a few days here, it's about 4.5 months.
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<p>Come on, that's a bit unfair, don't you think? There's not that much snow at Cornell. And it doesn't last for that long. </p>
<p>To be sure, it can be cold for a long stretch of time, perhaps even for 4.5 months (although that is rare). But that's hardly to say that 3 feet of snow - or any snow for that matter - is on the ground for that entire stretch of time. Snow will drop, but then will partially melt away during the admittedly infrequent warm spells (as in, above freezing temperature) of the winter. You rarely have anything more than half a foot of snow that lingers for anything more than a few weeks at a time. </p>
<p>And besides, there is usually little reason to have to walk through the snow. Cornell is a functioning university and Ithaca is a functioning town which means that the walkways are plowed. Walking through the snow is generally necessary only during or perhaps a day after a storm. Nobody needs to walk through snow for 4.5 months straight.</p>
<p>Yeah, while I'm trying to be unbiased, the fact that I myself chose not to apply to Cornell, and chose to attend Berkeley probably clouds my vision a little. </p>
<p>Ivy League status will mean SOMETHING, but I think as others hint, it'll mean much more if you're in HYP or something. If you're rather set on engineering, I would think the connections you can get through Berkeley are among the best. The other thing is that Cornell academic style seems a little too similar to Berkeley's -- pictured to be cut-throat, perhaps to a greater extreme. That in and of itself doesn't make me feel warmer towards Cornell -- if I'm going to an Ivy League, I'm not going there to bash heads against others there...</p>
<p>HYP engineering/cs is quite, shall we say, lacking, when compared with Berkeley or Stanford engineering/cs xD</p>
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Come on, that's a bit unfair, don't you think? There's not that much snow at Cornell. And it doesn't last for that long.
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<p>Yes, there is THAT much snow, and it lasts for THAT long. I take it you've never lived in upstate NY.</p>
<p>I'm a Berkeley student and have always loved Berkeley, so I'm biased.</p>
<p>In any case, you should note that the average pedestrian or employer doesn't even know exactly what is considered "Ivy Legaue." It's clear that Berkeley isn't, but I've seen many who think that even MIT is an ivy. There's a stereotype that goes with that, and it's not universally accepted that Ivy status is necessarily better. So, "Ivy status" isn't something you should consider.</p>
<p>Which one you should go to depends on exactly which engineering major you're in. Like some have said before, BioE at Cornell might be slightly better. But, if you're in EECS, then Berkeley definitely wins. For the others, it's really a tossup.</p>
<p>If I were you, I'd choose the one that feels best. Visit both campuses again in a similar time frame and pay close attention to the details. Trust your instinct on which one you like better.</p>
<p>Even if the cost would come out the same, say Cornell would offer grants... the OP should still choose Berkeley. We're talking about engineering here and Berkeley is a solid top 3 for engineering in the nation, and probably in the world. </p>
<p>Not to be mean to Cornell here; i thought it's a great school, but what is Cornell's engineering compared to Berkeley's? </p>
<p>There's only 1 school that's better than Berkeley for eng'g and that's MIT. Berkeley's eng'g is about as good as Stanford eng'g and Stanford is superior to most schools anywhere in the nation. </p>
<p>However, if the OP was looking for a different kind of experience like a total change of ambiance or want to experience a different kind of weather and is willing to pay the high cost of attending Cornell, i think it's a valid reason to go there over Berkeley. I have friends who did that and they have no regrets. But if the OP's concerns are academics and opportunities after graduation, Berkeley would be a better choice than would be Cornell.</p>
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Not to be mean to Cornell here; i thought it's a great school, but what is Cornell's engineering compared to Berkeley's?
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<p>Only the best students in engineering itself will actually see the distinction strongly enough, I think. I started off in Berkeley EECS, and two of my roommates and close friends are still EECS majors. We're all well versed at how good it is, and it's just not so clear cut for undergrad, and this assessment is not fair. Quite a few EECS majors I know just want to get through and get decent grades in their courses + get a job. They're not out to take advantage of world class faculty, and go to top grad schools and become big shots in their field. For these students, both Berkeley and Cornell engineering would be hard JUST TO GRADUATE from, and honestly graduating with fairly good grades (3.5-7) is probably a huge deal for most students. Cornell has a very reputed engineering department, and the only reason I lean towards Berkeley for the OP is the in state tuition thing.</p>
<p>I'm just gonna throw in another consideration I had when I was picking schools: what if you suddenly discover something else you'd rather major in or perhaps double major in that is not engineering? Perhaps right now you might say that this is impossible because you've been set on this major for a while now, but life likes to throw you curveballs. So if you possibly choose to leave the major you entered with and you'd like to enter a good program for an alternative major you might look into how many other good programs that you might be interested in that the school has. For example, I used this strategy to choose between Berkeley, Cornell, and UCSD for BioE. Sure UCSD and Cornell are probably better than Berkeley for BioE, but if I changed my mind about BioE there was no way UCSD could be as good as Berkeley for my new major choice unless it was oceanography or something of that nature and about the same goes for Cornell unless I suddenly discover a passion for agriculture or hotel management.</p>
<p>For example, this summer a friend of mine was doing BioE research for my dad. This friend was originally a physics major at Brown, but he had a change of heart and decided to switch to BioE. The only thing is Brown has a second rate engineering school and its BioE department is not very active so getting research at his school specifically for BioE is difficult. He would have been probably better off at Berkeley for BioE otherwise.</p>
<p>mathboy, i don't really get what you're trying to say here. are you saying problems such as those that you and your friends have encountered at Cal aren't existence at other top engineering schools? i've got friends who've attended Caltech and they're cursing their alma mater school. but that doesn't make caltech a bad school, does it?</p>
<p>
[quote]
For example, this summer a friend of mine was doing BioE research for my dad. This friend was originally a physics major at Brown, but he had a change of heart and decided to switch to BioE. The only thing is Brown has a second rate engineering school and its BioE department is not very active so getting research at his school specifically for BioE is difficult. He would have been probably better off at Berkeley for BioE otherwise.
[/quote]
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<p>The implicit assumption you are making is that your friend would have been allowed to switch over to BioE at Berkeley, despite the fact that BioE is one of the most impacted - in fact, perhaps the most impacted - majors at the school. Hence, what if your friend had gone to Berkeley intending to major in physics, then decided he wanted to switch to BioE, and then found that he couldn't switch into the major? At least Brown, if nothing else, allows you to switch majors without interference.</p>
<p>
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Yes, there is THAT much snow, and it lasts for THAT long.
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<p>No, there isn't, vc08. Stop exaggerating. You know it's not true. </p>
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I take it you've never lived in upstate NY.
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<p>Oh yes I have. In fact, I had it worse. I lived in Rochester: epicenter of the 'lake effect snow'. And even so, we wouldn't have "3 feet of snow for 4.5 months straight".</p>
<p>To be sure, sometimes we did have 3 feet of snow, and in fact, sometimes even more than that. But it didn't linger for 4.5 months. And certainly there was little need to actually have to walk through the snow after the sidewalks have been plowed.</p>
<p>I did six years there, there was certainly snow, I didn't find it that terrible, YMMV. And obviously, they shovel it, give me a break. I loved it there, personally.</p>
<p>Which is not to say the weather there is just like Berkeley's weather.</p>
<p>As for where you should go, I guess there's a lot of "fit" differences you might consider.</p>
<p>Cornell is sort of a traditional campus based experience.
There are a lot of different types of people there, studying a lot of different things.
YOU can study a lot of things, at a high level, even if you major in engineering. And if you change your mind about engineering, switching out is possible, though not automatic.
The overall M-F ratio is about 50-50, which is what is experienced in the dorms.
Its engineering program does not require you to commit to a specific major at the outset.</p>
<p>I don't know anything particular about Berkeley, but it''s in a great location and might be better situated for SF-area jobs if that's where you want to wind up afterwards.</p>
<p>I doubt undergrad engineering rep is much different.</p>
<p>My guess is a higher % of people complete the engineering program at Cornell, but perhaps that's because they have a more homogeneous group, capability-wise, coming in.(just from what I've read on CC, no personal knowledge). In my day anyway, they didn't have "weeder courses" in engineering, per se, but the whole program is tough. From what I've read on CC it seems there might be more attrition at Berkeley.</p>
<p>
[quote]
mathboy, i don't really get what you're trying to say here. are you saying problems such as those that you and your friends have encountered at Cal aren't existence at other top engineering schools? i've got friends who've attended Caltech and they're cursing their alma mater school. but that doesn't make caltech a bad school, does it?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well the point was, to put it more succinctly than before -- I don't believe that Cal's engineering ranking should be the basis of selecting an undergraduate engineering program for the very, very vast majority of students. The reason being that the majority of students even in one of our top majors EECS are really trying to survive the program and get a good job, and for such students, the differences in these programs is not as crucial. </p>
<p>Much better factors to consider may be Cal's location (even, for instance, the Bay Area connections factor) in my own opinion. Rankings have to split hairs and will invariably look at pretty subtle factors, a lot of which my experience tells me that only a fraction of the student population will care for. I mean, sure if you want to study CS theory in graduate school and for a career, then there are certain GODS of the field in Berkeley who're an incomparable treat to be in the presence of...but there don't seem to be that many overenthusiastic people who care about these faculty.</p>
<p>More importantly, it's not super easy to get into all classes at Berkeley, and it may be different elsewhere -- lots of more "down to earth" factors that're more immediate to consider, I believe.</p>
<p>So that wasn't very succinct, but I'll say that I was in no way complaining about my school. I was actually just saying that students seem to be much too down to earth to care about whether a school does or doesn't have Christos Papadimitriou on its CS faculty. There are exceptions, but they truly are exceptions.</p>
<p>mathboy, we all know that every school on earth has problems. Even Harvard has problems. Why do you focused on the problems when this thread isn't supposedly for such topics? You'd be more of a help if you try to share here the strengths of Cal engg.</p>
<p>This thread is to help our OP figure out which school to attend. I have expressed both positive and negative things about Cal. The same for Cornell. Both sides are necessary to consider before making a decision. Knowing of any negatives of Harvard would be important before choosing to go there as well.</p>
<p>^ Sorry; that was my officemate's comment who's applying for grad school. )</p>